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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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dca chasing nationwide debt - what to do?


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No nothing just this letter from AK saying the debt is now theirs and I owe x amount...... No correspondence from Nationwide themselves since 2008, the last amount was paid in April 2008 and they issued a default in Feb 2009

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can you remember when they first started pursuing you for all sums due under the contract, not arrears.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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No nothing just this letter from AK saying the debt is now theirs and I owe x amount...... No correspondence from Nationwide themselves since 2008, the last amount was paid in April 2008 and they issued a default in Feb 2009

 

 

Last payment APRIL 2008 statute barred April 2014

 

Default date/termination date and any other date is NOT relevant.

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Last payment APRIL 2008 statute barred April 2014

 

Default date/termination date and any other date is NOT relevant.

 

This simply is not true, please google any of the accredited advice agencies.

 

Simply the statute bar date runs from when the creditor is entitled to call in the debt. This can only happen when the agreement is terminated because up until that time the debtor is entitled to repay the loan at the agreed rate.

 

Therefore the termination date is essential to the calculation, this is what the case law quoted earlier clarifies. If you have a letter demanding full payment with a date on it this could be used as proof fo the beginning of the statute bar period, the notice on the credit file could have been placed there at any time.

 

Please do not rely on the agreement being statute barred without further confirmation.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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This isn't more fotl rubbish is it

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Chrissie, your sb date is 6 years after your last payment/written ack of the debt, whichever was the later, as myself and brig has already said.

 

If you are getting confused, feel free to google or contact cab or the oft.

 

It may be best getting concrete clarification from them as there is erroneous advice bring given to you by one poster.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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It may do. It depends on whether they actually terminated the account or just made an arrangement to pay. The problem is that the term of the loan did not expire till 2010 so they could say that this was the date that all sums become due.

 

The situation is that you can say this is statute barred and it is up to them to probe that it isn't, but I would have a back up plan just in case.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=25_liability_for_debts_and_the_limitation_act

 

The cause of action (when the limitation period starts running) for simple contract debts, is usually when your agreement says the creditor is able to take court action because you have fallen behind with payments. This is normally after one or two missed payments. Sometimes, a debt will have no set repayment time. For these sorts of debts, working out the cause of action is more difficult. Phone us for advice.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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See above notice nothing about starting when a payment is missed, on a consumer credit agreement, all sums due under the contract cannot be called until the agreement has been terminated after the service of a default notice.

 

I suggest tht some on here stop giving advise and start learning.

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Thread has been flagged in order to get concrete info.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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The concrete info is this

 

the date on the cra file has a absolutely nothing to do with the SB start date

 

The Sb clock starts ticking when all sums are re callable under the agreement, in a CCA agreement this would be when the agreement is terminated as before this the terms apply.

 

After this, an acknowledgment of the debt is required to restart the clock , this can be either by payment off the account or written acknowledgment

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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This fact sheet from National Debtline confirms the position.

 

http://www.bdl.org.uk/images/25_EW_NDL_Liability%20for%20debts%20and%20the%20limitations%20act.pdf

 

For this type of debt, the SB time clock runs from the date of the missed payment, where in the agreement it states that the creditor can take court action.

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This isn't more fotl rubbish is it[/quote

 

Sounds like it Imp don't which bit of Wikipedia he found that rubbish!!

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This simply is not true, please google any of the accredited advice agencies.

 

Simply the statute bar date runs from when the creditor is entitled to call in the debt. This can only happen when the agreement is terminated because up until that time the debtor is entitled to repay the loan at the agreed rate.

 

Therefore the termination date is essential to the calculation, this is what the case law quoted earlier clarifies. If you have a letter demanding full payment with a date on it this could be used as proof fo the beginning of the statute bar period, the notice on the credit file could have been placed there at any time.

 

Please do not rely on the agreement being statute barred without further confirmation.

 

Tis is simply true factual, correct!

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Yes the start of the SB would be when the agreement was terminated as per the case law provided, so it really depends on when they issued the DN and terminated your agreement.

 

When was the account passed to the DCA ?

 

Dodge

WRONG AGAIN!! DN/default date termination has nothing to do with a debt becoming SB.

 

OFT Guidance on Debt Collection 2003/2006 updated Nov. 2012 (annexeB) read with the 2006 document.

Section 2.14 (b) It is unfair to pursue the debt if the debtor has heard nothing from the creditor during the limitation period (6 years) E & W.

 

Regular contact is defined also and standard debt collection letters do not affect the limitation period'

 

Definitions: Relevant acknowledgment is: any payment made by the debtor (or his agent) in this limitation period) i.e. no payment made in six clear years. Dates from when a payment was due and not made (last delinquent payment) after which no further payment was ever made.

Relevant acknowledgment. Unequivocal written acknowledgment that a liability still subsists made within the limitation period.

 

Tried /Argued/Tested and stands !!

 

All else re termination/default notices (DNs are merely notices of intention to default to default an account and have no relevance to statute barring nor does the actual default date.

 

I cannot understand why you continue to act like a troll constant posting of spurious data is not doing you or the OPs any good.

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Yes the start of the SB would be when the agreement was terminated as per the case law provided, so it really depends on when they issued the DN and terminated your agreement.

 

When was the account passed to the DCA ?

 

Dodge

 

Wrong

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Yes the start of the SB would be when the agreement was terminated as per the case law provided, so it really depends on when they issued the DN and terminated your agreement.

 

When was the account passed to the DCA ?

 

Dodge

 

Wrong agiain

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This simply is not true, please google any of the accredited advice agencies.

 

Simply the statute bar date runs from when the creditor is entitled to call in the debt. This can only happen when the agreement is terminated because up until that time the debtor is entitled to repay the loan at the agreed rate.

 

Therefore the termination date is essential to the calculation, this is what the case law quoted earlier clarifies. If you have a letter demanding full payment with a date on it this could be used as proof fo the beginning of the statute bar period, the notice on the credit file could have been placed there at any time.

 

Please do not rely on the agreement being statute barred without further confirmation.

The date of the last delinquent payment is the cause of action all else is irrelevant.

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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Thanks UB, let's hope DB now understands the simple facts!!

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Sit tight let us know if any company upgrades their approach, sorry but so much has gone on, what is the current state of play please?

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I got a letter in March from AK at my old address as I was moving out sent it back as no longer at this address and haven't heard anything since and now today I checked my cra report and they have updated as defaulted

Hi Chrissie,on what date did they update this and more importantly is the default the same as the previous entry?

 

AK cannot place a default at this stage themselves and can only up date the original entry with their details, the original default date cannot be changed.

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