Do I Have to Pay Bailiff Costs When Council Tax Bill Has Been Paid?

[TheFox62]

My Council Tax debt was passed to Swift (Merthyr Tydfil) for collection mid April 2013. I contacted the Council and advised them I could pay the whole outstanding amount on or around 5th May 2013. They advised I had to deal direct with Swift.

 

Received a letter from Swift, giving me 7 days in which to pay, prior to bailiff attending. I rang Swift who said they could only hold the account for 7 days after which time I would have to contact the bailiff and additional charges would apply. I was still unable to pay for another 12 days.

 

A bailiff attended around 1st May. As far as I am aware, no one knocked as I was in all day, but they left a letter which incurred £22 bailiff charges.

 

On 3rd May I paid the whole Council Tax bill direct to the Council via their website (not the £22 bailiff costs) online. About 10 days later I received a nice letter from Swift thanking me for my recent payment (even though I payed it directly to the Council), but that there was still £22 outstanding on my account with Swift.

 

Rightly or wrongly, I ignored it as I recall reading somewhere that bailiff costs cannot be enforced through the original distress warrant as the warrant only covers the council tax debt and court costs.

 

I assumed that would be the end of the matter. A Bailiff attended on 1st June to collect the £22.

 

He stated he had come to collect the £22 owed in bailiff fees.

 

I advised him the Council Tax debt had been paid and that the warrant did not cover bailiff fees. To which he replied, "We have contacted the Council and they have advised us to contact you directly for our fees"

 

He replied "If you don't pay now, I will leave another letter, with charges of £16.50 and return to remove goods to cover the debt"

 

I said " I didn't think the warrant allowed you to do that"

 

He said "I'm not going to argue with you, we can remove goods to collect the outstanding fees"

 

I closed the door.

 

Can someone point me in the right direction as to where I stand please.

Edited June 4, 2013 by TheFox62
Clarifying text

[citizenB]

Someone will be along to advise as soon as they can.

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi, and welcome to CAG!

 

They can charge you for a first visit and a subsequent one if they have been instructed to collect council tax. They cannot legally charge any more than that. I think it depends on your local council and their arrangement with the bailiffs they employ. Some bailiff companies won't chase up on fees if the Council calls them off.

 

However, I know CAB always say they can't seize your goods just for their own fees which is a bit confusing.

 

Presumably you didn't let him into your house?

[ploddertom]

The probl;em you have is that Bailiff Fees are paid first and any balance paid to cover the debt. It sounds as if the payment that was made has been handed to the Bailiffs, they have taken their costs at that time which left the balance as you state which is owing to the Council and they can rightly enforce for this.

 

You should however check with the Council to find out the status of your account with them asking if your liability with them is now paid.

[TheFox62]

Hi Daniella

 

Thanks for replying. I did not let them into my house. The first time they attended, I don't even think they knocked the door.

 

Also, the first time they attended was BEFORE I paid the Council tax bill, but when they attended on Saturday (1st June) this was 4 weeks AFTER I had paid the Council the full amount.

 

So, in essence the bailiff is now trying to charge me for attending to collect their own fees??

 

My impression is, the Council have their money now, so they have no interest with Swift in this matter, which is why they have told Swift to pursue me directly for their fees. As far as I can see, the Council are not involved any more.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but my feeling is that Swift are using the threat of removal of goods, as would have been allowed for the Council part of the debt, as a threat tactic to make me pay their fees, when in fact, this is not allowed.

 

Hope I am not confusing things further. Just need to know if I legally have to pay the initial £22 bailiff fee and now the £16 2nd visit fee, even though the debt on the Warrant has been paid to the Council in full.

 

My opinion is, Swift can take a running jump for their fees - unless by law I have to pay them, in which case I will.

[Desperate Daniella]

If the Council tax is clear then the Council won't really be concerned about your dealings with Swift.

 

I think you need some help from a bailiffs expert here so I'll see who is around.

 

If, as CAB say, they have to take action against you in their own right to recover their fees they may not bother. I suppose they could take you to the small claims court, but would they bother for less than £40?

 

However, I've heard they do use underhand tactics so I suppose they might try it on and clamp your car even if they don't have any right to do so. They wouldn't have a leg to stand on so let's hope they wouldn't be so stupid.

[tomtubby]

Welcome to the forum.

 

As you have stated in your initial post, on 1st May 2013 a bailiff attended your premises and left a notice which confirmed his visit and confirming also that a fee of £22.50 had been added to your account.

 

By your own admission 2 days later ( on 3rd May) you paid the debt to the council but did not pay the bailiff fees of £22.50.

 

Firstly, the fees charged by the bailiff are CORRECT. The statutory fees are £22.50 for "attending to levy" (where no levy was made).

 

So many people pay the council direct in the mistaken belief that this will avoid bailiff fees. Sadly, this is wrong.

 

With the enforcement of unpaid council tax, the statutory regulations provide that from all payments received (whether at the council offices or the bailiff company offices) bailiff fees can first be deducted. The relevant regulation is 52(4) of the 1992 admin and enforcement regs.

 

How this is worked out is as follows:

 

For example the debt to the council is £400 and the bailiff fees were £22.50.

 

If you pay £400 direct to the council they are "supposed" to credit the enforcement company with £22.50 and apportion the balance of £377.50 TOWARDS the council tax debt. What this actually means is that the debtor has actually NOT paid the amount on the Liability Order and quite correctly, the bailiff can legally continue with enforcement. However, it must be understood that the bailiff is NOT enforcing for his fees as the council are supposed to credit the fees to the enforcement company from the payment made to them.

 

As you have said the bailiff did visit on 1st May and left a notice and that 2 days later you paid the council direct. Was there a reason why you were refusing to pay the bailiff fees of £22.50 ( which appear to have been legally charged) ?

[outlawla]

Hi Daniella

 

Thanks for replying. I did not let them into my house. The first time they attended, I don't even think they knocked the door.

 

Also, the first time they attended was BEFORE I paid the Council tax bill, but when they attended on Saturday (1st June) this was 4 weeks AFTER I had paid the Council the full amount.

 

So, in essence the bailiff is now trying to charge me for attending to collect their own fees??

 

My impression is, the Council have their money now, so they have no interest with Swift in this matter, which is why they have told Swift to pursue me directly for their fees. As far as I can see, the Council are not involved any more.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but my feeling is that Swift are using the threat of removal of goods, as would have been allowed for the Council part of the debt, as a threat tactic to make me pay their fees, when in fact, this is not allowed.

 

Hope I am not confusing things further. Just need to know if I legally have to pay the initial £22 bailiff fee and now the £16 2nd visit fee, even though the debt on the Warrant has been paid to the Council in full.

 

My opinion is, Swift can take a running jump for their fees - unless by law I have to pay them, in which case I will.

 

I think you've weighed up the situation pretty accurately with this. I doubt the council has paid any money to the bailiffs. If they haven't there won't be any outstanding council tax owed.