MBNA - Alliance & Leicester - Thomas Cook credit cards

[miamidancer]

Hi,

 

I have 2 credit cards with MBNA:

 

Alliance & Leicester opened July 2005 and Thomas Cook opened Sep 2005, because of financial difficulties in 2006/07, these debts have now been sold on to Link Financial.

 

I am planning to make claims for PPI and charges on A& L and charges on the TCook card.

 

I sent off and have received the SAR details from MBNA but they have only included computer printout lists of transactions, not full statements. As I paid the £10 fee, which they never cashed, I requested the statements but they want £4 per statement, so I have requested them again as they are a main part of the SAR.

 

I have been looking through the list of transactions and found various charges that have been added to the accounts.

 

I am baffled by transactions listed as Special Cash Interest and Cash Advance fees. I asked for an explanation of this, MBNA replied:

 

" Cash advance; obtaining cash or cash substitute by use of your card including through an ATM, over the counter, purchase of foreign currency or travellers cheques, gambling and electronic transfers (other than a balance transfer or a money transfer".

 

I have never obtained cash by any means using a credit card and have no idea why I have been charged these fees. Would full details of these transactions be on the statements I have requested?

 

There are also Finance charges listed, apparently this is MBNA's historical term for interest charged to an account, and is also the term used when interest is not broken down into Special Cash interest or Posted Retail interest. Any ideas as to why there are 2 charges posted on the account on the same day?

 

I know I can reclaim late fee/admin charges, can I reclaim any of the list below:

 

Special Cash interest

Card protection fee

Cash advance fees

Overlimit default sum

Electronic balance transfer fee

 

Should I wait for the statements to arrive or work off the computer printout lists and send the reclaim now?

 

I would appreciate any advice as how to proceed with this.

 

Thank you.

[theoldrouge]

special cash int-no,card protection fee-yes [treat as a seperate claim-see CPP mis-selling],cash advance fee-no [can be charged for gambling transactions as well as cash advances], overlimit default sum YES include as part of your charges reclaim, electronic balance transfer fee-no, pers I would wait for statements as this would give you the full picture

[miamidancer]

Hi theoldrouge,

 

Thank you for the advice. As I said in my first post, I have never used a credit card for cash advances and not for gambling either. Will wait and see what the statements show, if they ever send them!

[ken100464]

Miamidancer.

 

Slippery as they come as you already discovering.

 

They can charge you per statement if they so wish if they have already given the information in another format. Sadly you will find the transaction log is just that. The information is there just not in the way we normally see it. Just because you want it in another format is not the banks problem and think you could be onto a sticky wicket here. If the account started in 2005 and they do charge £4 a pop you are looking at a bill of £384 per card or £768 total . For information they have already provided you. If its worth it for you then I apologise but MBNA will see it as another way of obtaining money out of you. And because they have told you the charge and you have asked again for it I dont see any earthly way out of it if they now comply.

 

Wish you luck on that one.

 

As to the interest being charged twice. They charge different rates for different transactions. So you could have up to 5 different interests applied the same day depending whats on the card.

 

Think special cash advance/interest will perhaps apply to a balance transfer. They give you an explanation as to cash advances which exclude a balance transfer. However balance transfers are counted as seperate for interest purposes and would have a seperate interest rate normally.

 

Finally as to charges reclaim. MBNA will tell you to bugger off and you will be left with a court claim if you want to do it. They will claim anything over 6 years is time barred and the £12 ones are ok cause the OFT says so. Unlike Barclays they dont cough so expect a day in court.

 

Agree with theoldrouge as to what you can and cant claim. CPP need to hurry as company who you would be after is bout to go bust. However FSA/FOS say you should be returned to where you would be if PPI wasnt applied. If you can prove recon balance was below your limits overlimits should come back as part of a PPI claim. But be aware if you think they been slippery up to now you aint seen anything yet.

[miamidancer]

Oh that doesn't sound promising at all but thank you for the insight.

[ken100464]

On the PPI thats the thing to focus on. Why you think its miss-sold. If you have a valid reason get the claim in via a PPI claim form off the FOS website. Keep a copy just incase MBNA disagree with you and you have to go to FOS.

 

All the stuff you have now helps you check if they have correctly calculated your claim. Unless you are going the court way first it irrelevant till you get an offer of redress. And you need an uphold first.

 

Hope that helps. Lots of stuff on posts is out of date and what peeps were doing years ago.

 

If it were me I would concentrate on getting that uphold first on the account with the PPI.

[miamidancer]

It was a supermarket credit card promotion. There was no mention of PPI at all, no t/c's, when the agreement was filled in. Apart from that I have been on Incapacity Benefit from 2000, therefore it was/would have been no use to me at all.

[miamidancer]

I am confused now regarding reclaiming PPI and charges back. I don't expect a quick result from companies like MBNA, but would expect them to accept responsibility in the way they run their organisations and own up to the way they treat people by the miss selling of PPI and extortionate penalty charges they apply to customer accounts.

 

From reading the different experiences on the various forums, people have been successful in their claims, I realise for some it has been a long arduous road and they have had to fight to the bitter end with these companies and possibly have to take Court proceedings, while others they have found it a relatively simple quick experience.

 

I had felt quite positive and more than eager to start these reclaims, now I am wondering from the above comments, is it worthwhile continuing with this process ???

[ken100464]

Theres your reason you had a pre existing medical condition and they normally invalidate PPI. Were you employed.? If not. Again invalidates PPI.

 

The problem you have to get round and worth getting your head round before you submit a claim is this. What actually happened when you got the application form? Its not that you had PPI so lets have the dosh back. The clue is in the words Miss-Sale. And that is at the moment of sale not 2 years later because something changed in your life. Everything revolves around what happened when the PPI was first applied.

 

Was it filled in by a rep at the supermarket while you were there? or did you pick it up take it home fill it in and send it off? If the first its an advised sale if the latter its non advised. But you could have then been subjected to a telephone activation call for the card where the PPI was sold to you. The variables are endless. But if you dont know you could say oh it was sold by the rep and then actually it was sold via a telephonecall. You have basically admitted you dont know when it was sold.

 

Two of those instances they should have picked up your circumstances and not sold the PPI. ie a miss sold policy. However one is where you miss purchased it by ticking the box. Sadly not their fault and they will not pay. Unless of course it happened at the activation call. So many variables

 

Can you see what I mean? All of the above is irrelevant if you cant remember or dont have a good reason or cant get an uphold. So many spend ages filling spreadsheets chasing SAR's etc etc but put little effort into the actual reclaim. And without the uphold either from the company or FOS then you will have a real uphill struggle.

 

I started this last summer bright eyed and ready for a scrap like you. But something happened last summer in relation to charges. Yes they do cough sometimes but its come a whole heap harder than when alot of threads or posters did theirs. Letters or FOS wont get you anything so dont waste time that way. I know because I tried it and failed on everyone. Not the forums fault but still miffs me off as was a waste of time and wish I knew back then what I know now.

 

If you really want your charges back its a court claim. Then look at the sub sections for the company you are after. Some you will find success on some you will just see tumbleweeds. Thats what tells the story. Look at the dates they win and the dates they start. Very very few with wins with both dates post summer 2012.

 

Each posters story and situation is different as will yours be. Each poster has different evidence. Hence why the stories range so wildly.

 

PPI reclaiming is straight forward and not hard to do. It needs patience grant you that. But for me without the uphold then nothing else follows. So you may think you are owed gazillions but if they hole you below the waterline with the uphold you will be getting diddly squat and perhaps even landing yourself with bigger bills to pay.

 

The final bit about accepting responsibility. If you go down this path you will soon realise what a shabby industry banking really is.

 

So from what you said so far you have good reasons as to why the PPI was crap value for you. Now think miss-sale as opposed to miss-purchase. Get that sorted in your head and get the FOS reclaim form off the FOS website fill it in, copy it, send the original postage proof to MBNA. Ensure its delivered then sit back and wait the reply or 8 weeks whichever comes soonest.

[miamidancer]

Hi Ken100464,

 

It was a form filled in by the representative and then signed by me. There was no advice given regarding PPI. There was not a box to tick. The CCA does not include any t/c's for PPI either.

[ken100464]

Ok.

 

In your SAR do you have the CCA? Or the original application form?

[miamidancer]

Hi ken100464,

 

Would you say, it is now the case that for any penalty charges reclaims, be prepared to go to Court as the companies will not refund the charges otherwise ?

[miamidancer]

Hi,

 

It's a true copy of the CCA and application form

[miamidancer]

My daughter got a card at the same time and she has been charged PPI on hers too, with no advice or information given.

[ken100464]

First question undoubtably. Letters wont do it unless its finacial hardship and its hardship happening now. 2005 to 2007 they will argue limitations law so you will have to learn all about that before you even get to arguments about if the charges are fair or not. FOS agree with the banks on charges. I had one back 5 weeks ago saying Bank was correct no wonga kennyboy. And think they say disputes could take 3 years to sort. This took 3 months. So it hasnt taken them much computing or brainpower.

 

Ok second question. If you have copies of both and you are absolutly sure there is no tick box on them. Look for any weazel words. Might not say PPI. Might say MBNA mega fantastic solid gold we dont do anything dodgy insurance you get my drift. Check anything and everything for something that says insurance. If thats a total no cant see it at all then go to your transaction log.

 

Go into it and look for anything that says insurance and when did it first appear.

 

PS you have 2 cards. Did both have PPI or are we just talking one? And is this the one you got at the supermarket and is this the one you have checked the CCA/application for PPI?

[miamidancer]

Its the A&L card that has the PPI on. The transactions are listed on the SAR printout as Posted Credit Insurance Fees.

 

The Thomas Cook card did not have PPI added.

 

Both these cards were a supermarket promotion and I got SAR details on both.

[miamidancer]

Where will I find the information on limitations law?

[ken100464]

Ok how many months after your account started did this posted credit insurance fees start.

 

There are many threads on the Barclaycard forum about charge reclaims.

 

You will have to ask someone else how to go about that side of it. Its not my forte.

[cwab_sticks]

Hi,

 

Sorry to hijack this post, but I have seen a really relevent comment posted by Ken,

 

"But something happened last summer in relation to charges. Yes they do cough sometimes but its come a whole heap harder than when alot of threads or posters did theirs".

 

I'm in a long process, lots of debts, started SARs a year ago and not half have complied with enough information etc, so I've still yet to reclaim some charges, some PPI's etc. would you be able to explain what happened last summer, or point me to a post which explains the problems with the charges reclaims?.

 

Thanks

CS

[miamidancer]

They started from the first month I used the card

[miamidancer]

Hi cwab_sticks,

 

I never picked up on that point, as I was feeling what's the point in all of this, suddenly seems such a daunting process.

 

Ken, what did happen regarding reclaims ?

[miamidancer]

Hi ken100464,

 

Have you not had any success with the companies you have tried to reclaim from?

[ken100464]

So if no tick box on the CCA/application its got to be a phonecall. Most probably on activation. Do you recall one at all?

 

See where we are going? PPI was crap not worth it for you. Now looking like it was a direct sale to you. One where they should have asked certain questions. That they didnt or advised you that the policy was crap for you starts to look way better. An advised sale so they cant hide behind you ticked a box or some other story.

 

Have a look in your SAR coms log. Ours from 2005 is very good. Before 2004 it wasnt so good. It might show you activation phonecall

[ken100464]

I have nothing to back it up but my suggestion would be it was the 6 year anniversary of the OFT ruling bringing the charges down to £12.

 

Before last summer they were defending the big ones which they didnt want to or couldnt. So instead of getting case law against them wriggled as much as they could then coughed.

 

Now they are hiding behind limitations for the big ones and then for the smaller ones that the OFT wont look into anything above £12. Please note I am not saying they are fair just saying the regulators et al arent batting for you at this level. FOS are dismissing them with virtually this. And yes I have chased 8 accounts different banks and they are trotting out the same words same sentences same everything. Almost as if its the same bank. And the last no go was just last month. So as you see its court or nothing

 

So its little old you against vested interests that the little guy dont win. By all means go ahead am sure some will win and am sure you will get lots of good information here. But the end of the day you are going to be infront of the judge in person arguing your case against some swish coporate lawyer.

 

No one on here is going to be there with you.

 

My gripe is when I started was nobody said what I said above. But not just this forum it was widespread across other consumer forums. Then it would be my decision and if I got stiffed my fault. But like many I was led to believe it was a formality. But of course we all want good news stories and getting wonga for little or no effort is just that.

 

I say what I say to balance up the debate. What you do is of course entirely up to you. But if you get a onesided story you can sometimes make a onesided decision.

 

I am trying to get your head round the entirely possible decent PPI claim by helping you see what so many dont grasp. At the very moment in time it was added did they advise or not and were you eligible or not. Many many make the mistake that just because you had it then they need to give it back.

 

Hope that helps. Debt makes us clutch at straws sometimes. I know cause I have been there.

[miamidancer]

I will check the comms sheets, even if it was an activation telephone call, I would not have agreed to PPI as it was inapplicable to my circumstances.