T-Mobile price increase _Cancel contract

[Ian2012]

My own issue is that I do not have a copy of the T&C's, so I'm going by other's interpretation. It's very good to see the copy/paste of the post October version.

 

I agree, the correct rate for that one is clearly 3.2%.

 

Unfortunately my contract started in the September.

 

If anyone has the same Clause for the September version I'd appreciate a similar copy/paste.

 

Thanks.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Ian2012
typo

[Ian2012]

I'm assuming the following, copied from earlier in the thread is the pre-October version. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

7.1.4. We can increase any Price Plan Charge. We will give You Written Notice 30 days before We do so. The change will then apply to You once that notice has run out.

7.2.3.3. The change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 7.1.4 is an increase in Your Price Plan Charge (as a percentage) higher than any increase in the Retail Price Index (also calculated as a percentage) for the 12 months before the month in which We send You Written Notice and You give Us notice to immediately cancel this Agreement before the change takes effect.

 

Without the extra text in the October version I feel there is a risk involved since it is ambiguous.

 

Taken literally the 12 months before the month in which letter was sent is the RPI to March, Released mid-April, 3.3%

 

But, they couldn't possibly mean that as they did not know that rate when they sent the letters.

 

So the realistic meaning is the RPI for the 12 months Published in the month prior to the letters, 3.2%

 

Now they clarify this in the October update, so we know what they mean, but what would be the legal view if it actually went to Court.

Edited April 18, 2013 by Ian2012
typo

[powerful_rogue]

Ian, you can view both sets of T&C's here - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/terms-and-conditions/terms/

 

I dont think its ambiguous at all. They sent the letters out at the start of April when the published RPI that was released on March 19th was 3.2%.

The latest RPI that was released on the 16th April has no bearing - as it was not released when they sent the letters out.

[shedder101]

i dont know if this is right but dont you have to cancel your contract before it comes in to force otherwise you are accepting the increase and i dought they will allow it pro rata

 

if it is i would remind people to cancel and inform Watchdog before May

[Ian2012]

That's how I have interpreted it. They have included a "Time is of the Essence" Clause. ie, if you do not Terminate immediately you loose the Right to.

 

More ambiguity and attempts to increase the pressure to role over and accept. However my very limited experience of contract disputes showed the Courts to dislike "Time is of the Essence" Clauses especially in contracts between Corporations and private individual.

[shedder101]

I thought as much

 

today i recived a letter from them with my PAC code and saying if i use it i could have cancellation charges, a bit late i have already done it, still no response from the two letters i sent them.

[Ian2012]

That is really interesting that they have used the term "could", and not committed themselves.

 

Good luck.

[shedder101]

you too

[powerful_rogue]

Nope, no need to cancel before the change takes place. The terms and condition state:

 

You give Us notice to immediately cancel this Agreement before the change takes effect;

 

As long as you tell them to cancel the contract immediately and explain why, then you have fulfilled your obligations. I would recommend you send it via recorded delivery for proof.

[shedder101]

yes thats right but it needs to be done before May

[powerful_rogue]

yes thats right but it needs to be done before May

 

You need to give them notice you wish to cancel the contract immediately to comply with the terms and conditions. If T-Mobile drag their feet and dont cancel it before the 9th May, then thats not our problem as we have given then notice.

[powerful_rogue]

Very interesting post in the link below

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=60738119&postcount=159

[ruflonger]

I'm assuming the following, copied from earlier in the thread is the pre-October version. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

 

7.1.4. We can increase any Price Plan Charge. We will give You Written Notice 30 days before We do so. The change will then apply to You once that notice has run out.

7.2.3.3. The change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 7.1.4 is an increase in Your Price Plan Charge (as a percentage) higher than any increase in the Retail Price Index (also calculated as a percentage) for the 12 months before the month in which We send You Written Notice and You give Us notice to immediately cancel this Agreement before the change takes effect.

 

Without the extra text in the October version I feel there is a risk involved since it is ambiguous.

 

Taken literally the 12 months before the month in which letter was sent is the RPI to March, Released mid-April, 3.3%

 

But, they couldn't possibly mean that as they did not know that rate when they sent the letters.

 

So the realistic meaning is the RPI for the 12 months Published in the month prior to the letters, 3.2%

 

Now they clarify this in the October update, so we know what they mean, but what would be the legal view if it actually went to Court.

 

 

 

In the many conversations I have had the person has always quoted that the rate used was the one released in February which was 3.3%

[shedder101]

Well

 

had a lovely letter from T mobile see attached

 

there position has now changed from the last telephone call being that the price increse was based on Feb March and April based on what ever formula they felt like doing at the time

 

i would like your opinions in a response that can be sent to them

 

please note the date they said they sent the letters out mine only said April

[Ian2012]

The way I ready your letter, they are saying the rise is in line with the RPI Figure Published on 16.04.2013 for the 12 months to 31.03.2013.

 

This is my concern, that they've got lucky.

 

Their original Notification letters couldn't possibly refer to those figures since the letters pre-date the Published date.

 

The post-October T&C's are unambiguous. The RPI Figure to use is the one Published mid-March, ie. 3.2%

 

The pre-October T&C's unfortunately leave an ambiguity (in my view) that in truth will require a Court to decide. The question is, will T-Mobile allow it to go to Court with the risk of the decision going against them.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Ian2012

[shedder101]

thought you might be interested in this document considering it was released in March by the ONS

 

this is the document t mobile would have used i would thing as March RPI would not have been released until April 18th so has T mobile a crystal ball or a pipeline into ONS

[ruflonger]

Based on the information kindly posted on the forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=60738119&postcount=159 I contacted TMobile on 01707-315000 and asked to speak to Mr Swantee and was also put through to the Executive office.

 

I explained the situation to the lady who took my details then said

'at the moment as our legal team is looking into this and I cannot give you an indication of when that will be completed but I will get back to you'.

me: 'will the legal dept responded if I call next week at this time'

lady: 'I don't know'

me: 'Can I provide my email address so you can email when there is a response?'

lady: 'Yes'

 

In the meantime I have also sent a letter recorded delivery to TMobiles complaints which has been sign for.

[powerful_rogue]

The way I ready your letter, they are saying the rise is in line with the RPI Figure Published on 16.04.2013 for the 12 months to 31.03.2013.

 

This is my concern, that they've got lucky.

 

Their original Notification letters couldn't possibly refer to those figures since the letters pre-date the Published date.

 

The post-October T&C's are unambiguous. The RPI Figure to use is the one Published mid-March, ie. 3.2%

 

The pre-October T&C's unfortunately leave an ambiguity (in my view) that in truth will require a Court to decide. The question is, will T-Mobile allow it to go to Court with the risk of the decision going against them.

 

Im actually quite pleased they have decided to go along the route. It means they have messed up and this is the only thing they can think of to try and help them!

Does anyone honestly believe they were guessing the March RPI figure that was released on the 16th April when:

 

1)They send letters out between the 2nd and 5th April when the "March" RPI was unknown for another 14-11 days.

2) In the letters is states "The rate of RPI is currently 3.3%" - They didnt know this. Would they tell a judge they "guessed" it would be 3.3%?

3) Would they really take a 50/50 gamble. If the RPI released on the 16th April had gone below 3.3%, would they be using the same excuse?

 

Everyone can see what their doing and judges are not silly. Bring it on t-mobile!

[ruflonger]

thought you might be interested in this document considering it was released in March by the ONS

 

this is the document t mobile would have used i would thing as March RPI would not have been released until April 18th so has T mobile a crystal ball or a pipeline into ONS

 

So by the time they sent you the letter on April 18 they could quote the ONS RPI, but you were not in a position to know that and it is interesting then that the letter we received April could not reflect the ONS RPI released on March 19th?? That's rubbish surely as it does not give a clear 30 days from the notification of the increase until its applied to the May bill for customers to cancel because they don't know that the RPI is going to change half way through the process then becomes applicable. Basically what they are saying is here a letter telling you of an increase and by the way its not based on the rise in the RPI that you can check on its based on the RPI yet to be release that you don't yet know about WTH!!!

 

In every conversation I have had they have stated that the rate used in the letter was the one published in February and therefore in my option it is that rate published in March I will continue to peruse.

Edited April 19, 2013 by ruflonger
Misspelling and more relevant and detailed point

[Ian2012]

In every conversation I have had they have stated that the rate used in the letter was the one published in February and therefore in my option it is that rate published in March I will continue to peruse.

 

Which they have now worked out exposes them to the Cancellation Clause.

 

In trying to make the best of the bad hand they have dealt themselves, they now claim the 3.3% refers to the RPI figure Published in 16.04.2013.

 

I feel the Cancellation Clause for both T&C's still stands, as they have clearly made a mistake and are now trying damage limitation. But it is risky for anyone, like me, on a pre-October T&C.

[powerful_rogue]

But it is risky for anyone, like me, on a pre-October T&C.

 

Im on a pre-October t&c's and dont think its risky in the slightest.

Clear breach of t&c's and anyone whos anyone will see through this latest episode - " Yes your honor, we decided to guess the RPI figure for March that was released a week after we sent letters out"

[powerful_rogue]

I sent an email to CISAS last night explaining the situation and how t-mobile are dragging their feet in sending me a deadlock letter and received thius reply back today.

 

__________________________________________________

Dear Mr Dave

Thank you for your e-mail.

We note the points and concerns you have raised and can confirm that your complaint can be considered under the scheme.

CISAS is an Ofcom-approved redress scheme which individuals and small businesses of up to 10 employees (customers) can use to settle disputes with communications companies, such as mobile and home phone companies or internet service providers, which are scheme suscribers.

However, to use our service you must make a formal application after you have exhausted the company's formal complaints procedure. This can be done via our website at www.cisas.org.uk or alternatively you can apply by post.

Please note that we are unable to take on a complaint unless you can show that you have been in dispute with the company for 8 weeks or over or you have obtained a CISAS Deadlock reference number from the company to enable you to use the scheme before the 8 weeks is up.

Please provide your correspondence address if you wish to be sent an application form and information pack.

Kind regards,

______________________________________________________

So will have to wait another 6 weeks if t-mobile dont send me a deadlock letter, but its still nice to have confirmation that CISAS will deal with this issue.

[shedder101]

i agree, I dont think pre october T&C holders have any concern

 

they have shot them selves in the foot putting into writing the dates they sent the letters dated April 2013 and claiming it was for March RPI when it wasnt even released until the 18th

 

bring it on T mobile, and as listed on the forum should they put a detrimental entry on my credit report i will sue them for that as well

[shedder101]

just been on MSE forum and tmobile price increase 2012 was in Feb so one would assume the same this year

[powerful_rogue]

Another interesting point is that last year T-Mobile sent out letters of an increase of 3.7% on the 28th March 2012. This was the RPI rate for February 2012 that was released on the 20th March 2012.

 

So it goes to show that they managed to send out letters a week later with the correct RPI rate last year, so theres no excuse this year!