Urgent advice if possible Seizing Car Tomorrow

[thepalace1]

Hi, I am pretty much in dire **** here, can I possible again ask for help urgently, this site has helped me so much in the past, I hate asking again

 

Background

 

Vehicle is registered in my LTD company name, but is owned by myself 100% privately. It is just registered in LTD company name for the purposes of Taxing and Registering the vehicle.

 

Unknown to me a ticket was given to this vehicle from Bradford Council.

 

Just had a Mr/Mrs X from Phoenix Commercial Collections at the door saying they have a warrant to remove the vehicle, If payment is not received by 15.03.2013 (tomorrow) they are coming to tow the vehicle

 

Vehicle is worth scrap value (2000 Renault Laguna) worth £120 tops.

 

The Ticket is £97.00, with bailiff costs of £246.24 total outstanding £343.24

 

 

Can they seize a vehicle that does not belong to the entity named on the warrant? I have the original purchase documents, Invoice/receipt etc etc in my personal name from the auction house where it was purchased 4 years ago.

 

Just because the vehicle is registered to the entity named on the debt, does not mean it is owned by that entity.

 

The log book states in big huge letters. This document is NOT proof of ownership, it shows who is responsible for registering and taxing the vehicle.

 

I called the police, they said when they come back tomorrow to call them and ask them to attend, which I would have done anyway, I would have asked them to uphold their oath and make sure no criminal offense was committed.

 

But here is where I worry.

 

I have seen so many Youtube vids and read so many threads on different sites where the police have allowed them to take the car, even when they have no legal right to do so, and even when in taking the car a criminal offense was committed. This is the bit I worry about

 

 

Where do I stand, Just legal wise, Can they legally take the car because it is registered in the name of the debt (not owned though).

 

Can I demand that the police do their jobs and stop them committing theft, can I demand a Sergent/superintendent be requested as most PCs don't know the law.

 

 

Please pelase please help if you can

Edited March 14, 2013 by ims21

[ims21]

Hi

 

I have moved your thread to the Bailiff forum where you are more likely to get a response to your questions.

[thepalace1]

Thank you ims21, I had a sneaky suspicion I had put it into the wrong place.

[Desperate Daniella]

I don't know enough about this to advise, but the first thing you should do is hide the car.

[tomtubby]

If you had not received the PCN /Notice to Owner then there is a simple legal process whereby you can send an email Out of Time witness statement to the Traffic Enforcement Centre. If received by 4pm all enforcement will then go on hold today. You are a bit late in the day for this but you ned to send the form in the morning. You need to ENSURE that your car is NOT visible to the bailiff.

 

In the next few hours you will need to establish the REASON why you had not received any of the statutory notices. Had you moved address etc?

 

Can you please post back with with any further info...

[thepalace1]

This is where It is a bit confusing.

 

The debt is in the name of a LTD company, the ltd company is registered at my address, the debt is not mine it is the companies, the car belongs to me as an individual, the car does not belong to the company, i am a shareholder of the company.

 

The whole reason for limited companies is they are LIMITED, they cannot start selling the personal possessions of the directors of a ltd company.

 

The vehicle is registered to the ltd company because the company tax and insure the vehicle, I use my vehicle in my work for that company on a self employed basis. Part of my work contract with the company includes my tax, and insurance for the car being paid in addition to my salary.

 

This is why it is registered in the companies name, because it had to be legally as the company are responsible for registering and taxing it.

 

I do not have to prove if any paperwork was received pcn's or notice to owner, the ltd company has to do that, the company is a seperate entity to me.

 

Why should my personal possessions be seized to pay the debt of a ltd company.

[sgtbush]

where is the company registered? is it at your accountants office or trading address?

all the letters would of been sent to the address on the V5C document

 

so if you havenot got any of those letters then you can appeal on thse grounds.

 

however if a parking ticket has been issued the fine is still payable, as long at it is a proper ticket and as you state Bradford Council then im assuming it is.

the clock may be rolled back, if they accept you didnt get any letters but the ticket will have to be paid.

 

if they dont accept that the letters were not recieved then yes they can remove the car, regardless of if it is in a company name or not as the warrant of execution will state names etc.

 

your best course of action is to contact northampton TEC

[thepalace1]

sgtbush, thanks for your reply, but you leave me with more questions than answers

 

I cannot see how a vehicle belonging to a person can be taken in payment for a debt of a ltd company. That's the same situation as if they came to your house, and took your car to pay off the debt of the ltd company, your possessions have the same link to the ltd company as mine, ie no link at all. It is not my debt, it is the companies debt. The directors are not liable for the debts of the company, this is the whole reason for limited companies.

 

There is no denying the ltd company owe the debt, they do, they should pay it, and they will eventually pay it, but why should the employees and directors of that company be liable via their own personal possessions.

 

That is like (example i know tesco are plc, just example) The director of Tesco Ltd owing £400 on a parking ticket, and Crooky Debt Collections Ltd going and trying to seize a vehicle as payment from the poor lass who works on the checkout,

 

Surely the bailiffs can only levy distress on the assets of the Ltd Company.. My car is not an asset of the ltd company, it is my personal vehicle

[lamma]

"but the ticket will have to be paid."

That remains to be seen. First things first, deal with the Bailiffs i.e. stop them.

Have you done as tt suggested ? I do not see any clarification from you as was asked by tt.

[thepalace1]

The debt is not denied. The debt is owed, but the debt is in the ltd company name (presumable because that is the name the vehicle is registered in) I only work part time Fri-Sat-Sun delivering chinese food, Yes the debt needs to be paid, and It will be when funds permit. But if the debt is the companies can they legally take possesion not belonging to the company!

 

The vehicle will be parked this evening at a secure location away from my home. Can I do this legally as the paperwork I have states the vehicle has been seized.. although they have not disabled it by clamp or anything else.

 

If they take the car tomorrow and I cant work tomorrow night then I will be completely skint as I cant work at the local take away delivering without my car.

[caledfwlch]

The debt is not denied. The debt is owed, but the debt is in the ltd company name (presumable because that is the name the vehicle is registered in) I only work part time Fri-Sat-Sun delivering chinese food, Yes the debt needs to be paid, and It will be when funds permit. But if the debt is the companies can they legally take possesion not belonging to the company!

 

The vehicle will be parked this evening at a secure location away from my home. Can I do this legally as the paperwork I have states the vehicle has been seized.. although they have not disabled it by clamp or anything else.

 

If they take the car tomorrow and I cant work tomorrow night then I will be completely skint as I cant work at the local take away delivering without my car.

 

A Debtor hiding a seized vehicle is an offence. A rightful owner hiding their vehicle which has been siezed is not - the Levy upon the vehicle is invalid as it is not the property of the Debtor.

 

TT will know but I wonder if a statutory declaration (£5-£10 at local solicitors) stating the Car is yours not the LTD companies will be enough so you dont need to hide the car, after giving the bailiffs a copy.

[thepalace1]

Thank you to all that have helped with advice.

 

I have been emailing Phoenix bailiffs all morning, I have emailed original bill of sale proving vehicle belonged to me and not the reg keeper.

 

They emailed stating, they have received and accepted the proof, and they have removed their fees from the account and passed it back to Bradford Council.

 

Thanks again.

 

Issue resolved,

[lamma]

Which leaves the dangling PCN.

Post in the Local Authority Parking and Traffic Offences forum for that.