Advice needed for my disciplinary hearing

[Rachel112]

I am a veterinary assistant. This includes some reception work and somecleaning work too. My father’s friend got me the job and I was so grateful forthe experience as it goes alongside my animal management course.

The job as well as assisting on procedures also includes consultations withowners, covering reception, answering phones and cleaning, odd jobs, stickingthe stock shelves etc.

I have a terms and conditions of employment letter that was signed and I havebeen given a handbook.

On Sundays we attend work on a rota basis and to do odd jobs given that itis usually only emergency cases. I was told to come in and clean down treatmentroom 1 & 2 – that was what was on mywork sheet for the day. This, if done correctly would take about 3-4 hours.When I arrived; a girl that I am friendly with in the Reception was there, and Isat with her before starting with my cleaning. There was no supervisor thereand the vet that was there was in a long procedure with another assistant. I amashamed to say that this probably contributed to my decision to stay chattingfor so long.

Today I have received a letter entitled Disciplinary Hearing – stating thefollowing reasons: “Declining standards of work and incident on 23/2/13 whereit has been reported that you sat on reception for approx. 1 hour prior tobeginning your duties despite clocking in on arrival.”

Although I am not sure how they have found out (maybe cctv because the othergirl wouldn’t have said anything as she would be in almost as much trouble asme for chatting for so long)

Advice needed:

Should I take someone with me? Who? The letter states an appropriaterepresentative. What about my Dad? Is that awkward because it is my dad’sfriend

Do you think these sounds like reasonable grounds to let me go? I have neverhad a verbal warning before or any negative comments about my work (onlycomments when I haven’t worn my uniform correctly and followed hygiene procedurescorrectly)

Is the problem that I’ve basically been paid an hour for doing nothing?

Are they allowed to spy on cctv, since that’s how I think they have discoveredme

[Rachel112]

I forgot to say, I have been employed in this posiion and had m Ts&Cs for 5 months. Previous to this I did some work experience during uni holidays (expenses paid only) and sometimes holiday cover

[honeybee13]

Hello Rachel and welcome to CAG. I'm sorry to hear about your problems.

 

The forum regulars should be along later with help for you.

 

My best, HB

[assisted blonde]

As youn have only been employed for a short time you dont really have any employment protection and you can be got rid of for almost any reason. there are 2 issues as far as I can see 1 is that you clocked in an hour before you started work and the other declining standard of work, which I would be more concerened about having only been there a short time. You admit to clocking in and spending a long time not working and I think it would be foolish to try and say otherwise, or worry about the CCTV, even if they shouldnt have used it I can see no point in bringing up the legalities of its use as it will only get the employers back up. the declining standards are a different matter are there things that you have to do that you havent been shown how to do correctly? if so you should bring this up, no you Dad wouldnt be an appropriate representative someone like a union steward would be. I think you neeed to listen to what they say, and then say how much you enjoy the job etc etc show that you are willing to learn and apologise for the wasted time (prehaps even offer to make it up if its an issue) No doubt employment experts will be here soon and they will tell you the legalities of the situation but I really do think after such a short period of employment there isnt much you can except apologise and hope its enough to keep your employment,

[Emmzzi]

The legalities are pretty much that they can just let you go. Apologise and offer to make the time up at a time convenient to them, not you.

 

*ask* if your dad can come with - they can refuse as legally it's a union rep or colleague to accompany.

[altobelli]

'Declining standards of work' suggests that your work was of a higher quality before. Have you ever been spoken to about your work prior to this?

 

I think at the meeting you have to establish exactly what the issues are which you are being accused of, it seems harsh that they would go straight to a Disciplinary without speaking to you informally beforehand.

 

Regarding the extra hour, I would apologise for this and, yes, possibly offer to make the time up. A couple of questions to establish on this though, the letter says it was 'reported' that on the 23rd Feb that you were chatting for an hour after clocking in - you should find out whether this was discovered after the event, or whether someone was aware at the time, let you chat without saying anything to you, and then reported you. Also, with regards to consistency, was the other person you were chatting to invited to a Disciplinary? Did you clean the room after your chat? You could request that they don't pay you for the hour you spent chatting.

[Emmzzi]

'Declining standards of work' suggests that your work was of a higher quality before. Have you ever been spoken to about your work prior to this?.

 

yes, she has already posed this - uniform standards and far more seriously, hygeine procedures.

[Rachel112]

yes, she has already posed this - uniform standards and far more seriously, hygeine procedures.

 

Yes I have been informally spoken to about my uniform (wearing my own top under logod fleece instead of theirs) and on 2 occasions pulled up for not using hibiscrub upto my elbows)

 

Interesting what someone said about that you would normally expect an informal discussion prior to the hearing. Could they give me a verbal warning for this? Would a discliinary ever result in a verbal?

[Emmzzi]

you have been there 5 months. They can follow NO PROCEDURE AT ALL and as long as it isn't gender/race discrimination etc, you can be dismissed never mind a warning!

 

Ignore the posters advising you on technicalities. They do not apply here and will only get the employer's back up. Work on your sincere apology.

[assisted blonde]

I really dont think that it is the right thing to even ask if your dad can come with you even for moral support, he is involved as it was his friend who got you the job, IMO taking your dad isnt really very professional and also if he is like most dads he will want to say somthing if it seems that you are being critizised and that could do more harm than good, but that is just my opinion.

[LaughingGirl]

I have to agree with Emmzzi and AB on this, Rachel. I would focus on a very sincere apology, and an offer to make up the time. As Emmzzi has already said, as you've only been there five months, the ball is very much in their court.

[altobelli]

Finding out exactly what you're being accused of prior to a Disciplinary is hardly a technicality. Likewise, if someone was watching you chat for an hour and didn't say anything at the time and then later reported you, this isn't a technicality, its common sense to bring this up at any hearing.

 

The fact that they've suggested a Disciplinary though, instead of dismissing you, indicates that they hopefully want to discuss the matter with you and give you a chance to improve. When you go to the meeting, approach it positively, if they bring up the points previously raised address them, and emphasise that the job is important to you and you want to improve and are committed to doing so. If there are any mitigating factors, such as someone was aware you were chatting and didn't say anything, bring them up, and say that had you been told to stop talking and do your work, you would have done so. But its fine to apologise as well, its not really acceptable to chat for an hour during working time and I guess you know this. If any points are brought up at the Disciplinary which you haven't been told about before, make sure this is known. So engage with the employer at the meeting, apologise if you feel you are in the wrong, but the most important thing is that you demonstrate that you're committed to improving and that the job is important to you. And yes, a verbal or written warning is entirely possible following the meeting, as is no formal action.

 

But I would advise against going into the meeting grovelling and apologising unreservedly, especially on the advice of people posting on this thread who feel the employee is always in the wrong.

[altobelli]

With regard to your companion at the meeting, I agree with AB, its best not to ask your dad as you may be putting him in a difficult position.

[Emmzzi]

But I would advise against going into the meeting grovelling and apologising unreservedly, especially on the advice of people posting on this thread who feel the employee is always in the wrong.

 

1. sincere apology isn't grovelling, nor is offering to make the time up

2. she is, self admittedly, in the wrong. that is why I feel she is in the wrong - I'm not imagining it, it's via my magic power of reading comprehension!

 

anyway. Rachel, I do hope it has gone ok - updates appreciated!

[altobelli]

The most important thing is to resolve the problem going forward though, not merely assign blame. So the OP should apologise where she feels it to be necessary, but also mention any mitigating circumstances. Any dialogue, including any apology made, should of course be sincere. But someone who grovels and apologises for everything under the sun because they are frightened for their job will not be sincere, nor will they appear to be so.

[Rachel112]

The outcome of this was that I had a verbal warning for my declining satandard of work.

I had a written warning for fraudelantly clocking in (I.e clocking in then not actually working for 1 hour)

This happened in the same meeting.

I am on my best behaviour now

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Thank you for letting us know. Did you say what the guys suggested?

 

Anyway, whatever you did worked and I should imagine you're relieved. I'm pleased you have a second chance and hope it works out for you.

 

My best, HB

[Emmzzi]

Glad to hear you got through it ok!

[assisted blonde]

Take this as a wake up call and get on with enjoying your job, well done

[Rachel112]

I have a disciplinary hearing update meeting 4 weeks from the date of the hearing. I agreed to be monitored for 6 weeks and meet up with my manager again to review my progress. This is more about my work standard/ attitude / hygiene than what happened with my clocking in incident.

 

They have also sent me on a course about vetinary hygiene / public health. they paid for me to do this £250 so i didn' think they were wanting to get rid of me

 

Since then the following has happened

- I failed to properly dispose of some waste (I forgot)

- I failed to complete an assessment correctly and my supervisor had to redo it

 

I have had veral 'dressing downs' for both and my manager write on my worksheet that leaving the waste in a bag on the clinic floor was discusting BUT I haven't had any official verbal (i.e with a letter to go with it) or written warnings.

 

Can they save this stuff up to mention at the review and sack me?

[Emmzzi]

Yes, they can.

[altobelli]

Not really, the aim of the 6 weeks of monitoring is to help with performance improvement, not to allow evidence to be gathered to justify sacking you.

 

It sounds from the fact that they sent you on a course that they do intend keeping you, but it probably depends on whether they see what they regard as an 'improvement' over the 6 week period.

 

Regarding the disposal of waste, this was a mistake, and I think you should apologise for this and try your best not to do the same again. Regarding the assessment, it depends what your supervisor had to do, whether it was some minor adjustments or a complete redoing.

 

Everyone makes mistakes, if this exercise is being done fairly its aim should be to highlight what instances are unacceptable and allow you the chance to avoid repeating them. I think if you can demonstrate some improvement over the 6 week period it would help. You might also want to speak informally to your manager, say that you're glad of the opportunity and are committed to succeeding in the role.

[assisted blonde]

Not following hygine again procedures again? you seriously need to check and double check everything at the moment, although your employer may not want to get rid of you this is an area that is really important and could let you down even if other things are ok.

[altobelli]

Not following hygine again procedures again? you seriously need to check and double check everything at the moment, although your employer may not want to get rid of you this is an area that is really important and could let you down even if other things are ok.

 

Absolutely, this area is crucial due the potential seriousness if something goes wrong. Check everything, go above and beyond the requirements of the procedures if necessary, and request feedback, maybe ask your manager on a Friday if they were happy with things during the week. If you demonstrate you really want to succeed in the role this will help your cause a lot.

[Rachel112]

I think it's because I am so nervous and worried i am treading on eggshells and making mistakes

 

So can they save these things up or not, as 2 people have said 2 different things.

 

Thank you