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    • Post in Suing a parcel delivery company when you don't have a direct contract with them – third-party rights Copy of judgment available

      BankFodder posted a post in a topic,

      We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Parcel delivery insurance is prohibited under section 57 – Consumer Rights Act – Read about It Here and in The Times.

Yes Car Credit PPI REclaim *** Resolved***

ukdarrenfan
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ukdarrenfan

ukdarrenfan

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Well I've had a really good look at all the stuff that they have sent with regards to their 'evidence'.

 

How strange then that there are a few 'extra' pages that they have thrown in that they didn't send to me in my SAR request,

and they all mention that the insurances were optional.

 

We never saw any of those, and we definitely didn't get the 'Welcome to Yes Car Credit' booklet that they have added at the end.

 

That is written in plain English and I would most certainly have had a good read of it as it isn't a load of small print.

 

They are so bloody dodgy, perhaps they think that we wouldn't take a good look through all the evidence and try to match it up.

 

Looks like I'm going to have to print off all 48 pages from my SAR document now to show what we actually did receive from them.

 

Good job then that they forgot to put in the car invoice, to which they had taken off the deposit.

..but not transferred that figure to the sale agreement....

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citizenB

citizenB

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Do you have a copy of the agreement - it should say on there if they were members at that time ?

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citizenB

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Didn't this company go into administration ?

 

 

Will the FSCS be able to help ?

 

http://www.fscs.org.uk/contact-us/

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ukdarrenfan

ukdarrenfan

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Do you have a copy of the agreement - it should say on there if they were members at that time ?

 

I don't have the original agreement. I only have the copy that they sent me with my SAR information. It doesn't mention anything on there. Would it have mentioned it on the front of the agreement or the back?

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citizenB

citizenB

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TBH, I really don't know - I would have thought it would have been fairly visible, so perhaps on the front ?

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2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

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Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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ukdarrenfan

ukdarrenfan

Posted
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Didn't this company go into administration ?

 

 

Will the FSCS be able to help ?

 

http://www.fscs.org.uk/contact-us/

 

They are in administration, and no the FSCS cannot help.

 

We are taking DAFS to court, but they have provided info in their defence which they did not send us in our SAR.

 

All of these mention about the insurances being optional and we know that we did not have these,

especially the booklet that they provided which shows everything in plain English and no small print.

 

I would have had a good read of that and I know I didn't see it.

 

In that booklet they mention that they are members of the FLA, but I want to know when that booklet was produced

and if they were members when we bought our car.

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dx100uk

dx100uk

Posted
Posted

strange I know

 

but how about sending the FLA an email asking?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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ukdarrenfan

ukdarrenfan

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Strangely, I had an email today from somebody else at the FLA actually answering my question!

 

They said that DAFS were members from May 2002 until some time in 2006. This was really interesting info as it means that they couldn't have given me the booklet that was included in their defence document as in it it says that they were FLA members and they weren't when we purchased our car!

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dx100uk

dx100uk

Posted
Posted

oh dear

 

holes starting to appear to be getting bigger as soon ad you start poking them.

 

now I wonder why they would try that on

when then prob know they weren't members...

 

I wonder....

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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ukdarrenfan

ukdarrenfan

Posted
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oh dear

 

holes starting to appear to be getting bigger as soon ad you start poking them.

 

now I wonder why they would try that on

when then prob know they weren't members...

 

I wonder....

 

dx

 

There are 3 items in their defence that I know I haven't got. That's 2 lots of terms and conditions mentioning 'optional' insurances and the Welcome to Yes Car Credit booklet which also mentions that they were optional.

 

They know that there was nothing at all in our SAR information that stated that, so they are trying it on. Probably didn't expect me to check.

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  • 2 weeks later...
ukdarrenfan

ukdarrenfan

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Well today we got a copy of DAFS Directions questionnaire and they are still applying to have the claim struck out, due to it being time barred. They also want to strike out the the supporting witness statement. I take it by that, that they don't want me to produce perfectly legitimate newspaper articles and the BBC press release about the Whistleblower programme. They say they are hearsay, but it is reports of facts, not rumours.

 

Their letter states 'the Court will issue our application to strike out the claim and serve a sealed copy upon you in due course'. What are the chances of that happening? We already mentioned Section 32 (1) c of the Limitations Act in the POC so can they really just dismiss our claim like that?

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AndyOrch

AndyOrch

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darren..... have they actually attached a N244 to the DQ...or is it listed as an intended application ?

 

Regards

 

Andy

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ukdarrenfan

ukdarrenfan

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They haven't attached anything to it. I think that they've just applied to the court to have it struck out and said that I should receive a copy of their application from the court in due course. They worded it so it sounded like the court would agree with them.

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AndyOrch

AndyOrch

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I assume this is the N180 SCT DQ......where do they refer to " and they are still applying to have the claim struck out," and how do you derive at "I think that they've just applied to the court to have it struck out and said that I should receive a copy of their application from the court in due course."

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

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ukdarrenfan

ukdarrenfan

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Sorry the forum is playing up on my computer and I literally can only reply but not read previous posts.

 

Their letter only states

'the Court will issue our application to strike out the claim and serve a sealed copy upon you in due course'

 

They've only just attached the completed Directions Questionnaire to say that it is suitable for the small claims court, and for mediation,

 

but they have added a note to say that they feel that the claim should be struck out due to being time barred

and our 'witness statement' (by this I assume they mean newspaper articles, as we haven't yet written a witness statement) should also be struck out.

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AndyOrch

AndyOrch

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Posted

Right so the threat is by way of a covering letter and not part of the DQ......that is all it is at this stage...mindgames...if they make application it will be served on you and you can respond and object with your reasons.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

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ukdarrenfan

ukdarrenfan

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Ah brilliant, thanks Andy. We have already mentioned the Limitations Act in the POC as I knew from others' experiences that they try to have the claim time barred. So I thought I had that angle covered. Obviously they think not. Let's hope the judge agrees with me and not them. I'll await further info from the court.

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  • 4 weeks later...
ukdarrenfan

ukdarrenfan

Posted
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I received a General Form of Judgement or Order today. Can anyone explain it in plain English please? Do we need to do anything? It says:

 

Before Deputy District Judge Holligan sitting at Northampton County Court ......

 

Upon reading an application from the Defendant

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

the claim be transferred to the Kingston upon Thames County Court for the application to be listed for hearing (on notice) and served.

 

Because this Order has been made on the application of a party without notice of the hearing being given, any other parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. A party making such an application must send or deliver the application to the court (together with any appropriate fee) to arrive within seven days of service of this Order. If the application is one which requires a hearing, and

 

A). The party making the application is the Defendant; and

B). The Defendant is an individual,

 

Then upon the filing of the application the claim will be transferred to the Defendant's home court. In all other cases requiring a hearing the claim will be transferred to the preferred court.

 

What does it all mean? I know DAF were going to make an application to have the claim struck out due to it being time barred and for us not to be able to use our witness statements in court (by this I assume they mean the newspaper articles as we haven't written a witness statement). Help!

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dx100uk

dx100uk

Posted
Posted

just means the case has been transferred to your local court for a hearing yet to be arranged?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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citizenB

citizenB

Posted
Posted

If you have any objections then you can submit them on application (N244 form I think with a fee to pay).

 

I will ask andyorch and steampowered to look in on you.

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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