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    • Good morning,    I just wanted to update you on the situation.    I have visits piling up with my current employment and they need doing before I finish at the end of this month.  I am moving to Wiltshire in 3 weeks for a new job helping care homes with their Dementia patients. I tried to work it out and at a guess I will be doing about 20-25,000 miles a year. So need a vehicle that can cope with that mileage, my old car would have done it easy but 🤷‍♂️ I have taken out a loan and got a friend to find me a reliable car that can cope with the miles and hasn't been written off in the past.   I phoned Adrian flux to see if I could use the last months insurance on a new car I have bought, the girl I spoke to phoned Markerstudy and asked them but they said no, my new car doesn't have any modifications.    I had an email from someone who saw one of my appeals for information, they live near the site of the accident and know a nearby farmer who has a security camera at his entrance that catches the traffic and specifically registration plates as he has been robbed before. They said they would reach out for me and see if he still has the data. Unfortunately it wont catch the scene of the crash.   The Police phoned me and said they were closing the report I made, even if they found footage of the vehicle at the time I said the actual incident would be my word vs theirs.  My first response was I am sure google maps would show that they turned around at that location which would verify my version of events, but upon reflection I do understand, I have seen people doing make up with both hands while driving, eating from a bowl steering with their knees and veering all over the place. I am sure some of these people go off the road and claim that someone forced them off.    Markerstudy phoned me yesterday to say that my car is now at Copart, the £80 tank of Vpower diesel was emptied on entry to the site for safety reasons, which I get but it sucks.  It is awaiting being assessed and shouldn't be too long, which is a relief.  I am really glad things do not seem to be going the way of the other stories and they seem to moving quickly.   However I was informed that my car was a structural write off before I bought it - this destroyed me, I was almost sick.  and this is going to affect any offer of money - after hearing the first statement this didn't affect me.   They need to wait for the assessor to check it over but it is highly likely to be written off and the maximum they can offer is £2300.  I was desperate for a car as I was working for an agency at the time, no work no pay, and did not do a vehicle check because I didn't know about them.  The seller did not tell me that it had been structurally written off, he told me that it had the front wing damaged while parked and was repaired at an approved repairer.  Markerstudy records state that it was sold at auction, no record of repair at an approved repairer.  I bought it bank transfer with hand written receipt.    It gets worse.    It turns out my airbags should of gone off. For some reason they are not working. I think we can figure out why.  If I had hit that car head on and had no airbags.    Some good news.    I can arrange a time with Copart to go and take my stereo equipment and any personal items that are left in the car only. I cant live without music and need quality sound, my speakers and amps are Hertz and JLaudio, (no I am not a boy racer with booming subs, I am an audiophile on a budget) I was really worried I wouldn't get them back so this is a huge relief for me. It is stuff I have built up over years of saving and collecting. Everything to do with the vehicle and mods I have declared need to stay to be assessed.   The accident has gone as a fault on my record, I have to remove 2 years NCB which means I still have some to declare which is good.  So it appears at this point that it may be resolved quickly, not in the way I was hoping, but not as bad as I presumed it was going to be based upon that tow truck drivers attitude and behaviour and the horror stories I read.   I am not going to buy the car back and try to make money with all the parts on it, I don't have the time or energy.   I may need an xray on my back and neck.  The whole situation has left me feeling physically sick, drained and I need it done.   The lesson learnt from this  -  My conscience is 100% clear, my attitude to safety and strong sense of personal responsibility - A rated tyres even if on credit card, brake fluid flush every year, regular checks of pads and discs, bushes etc, made avoiding what I believed to be a certain broadside collision possible.   Get a dashcam (searching now for the best I can afford at the moment)  -  Research your insurance company before you buy  -  Pay for total car check before you go and see a car and take someone with you if you are not confident in your ability to assess a vehicle.      Thank you to everyone here who volunteers their time, energy and information, it is greatly appreciated.  You helped my sister with some advice a while ago but we weren't able to follow through, she is struggling with long term health conditions and I ended up in hospital for a while with myocarditis, when I got out and remembered it was too late.  I am going to make a donation now, it is not a lot, I wish I could give more, I will try to come back when things are on a more even keel.    Take care
    • It seems the solicitor has got your case listed for this “appeal” but not for the Stat Dec(SD). You need to ensure you can perform your SD on the day. If you are able to make your SD in court, the situation you are in now is more straightforward than if you made your SD via a solicitor. You have been convicted of two offences (and two were dropped) via proceedings of which you were not aware. The way to remedy that is to perform an SD. No appeal is necessary (nor is it available via the magistrates’ court). If you are able to make your SD this is how I see it panning out: You will make your SD to the court. The court must allow you to make it as it will have been made within 21 days of you discovering your convictions. You will then be asked to enter pleas to the four charges again. At this point you should plead not guilty to all four but make the court aware that you will plead guilty to the speeding charges on the condition that the FtP charges are dropped. The prosecutor will be asked whether or not this is agreed. In my opinion the overwhelming likelihood is that it will be. If it is you will be sentenced for the two speeding offences under the normal guidelines. In the unlikely event it is not accepted,  the speeding charges will be withdrawn (they have no evidence you were driving). You have no viable defence to the FtP charges and so should plead guilty. This will mean 12 points and a “totting up” ban (as you have already suffered). You can present an “Exceptional Hardship” argument to try to avoid this (explained below).   Because of this, I don’t see any need to make an argument to ask to have any ban suspended (pending an appeal to the Crown Court) unless and until you are banned again. The only reason I can think the solicitor suggested this is to secure a (Magistrates')  court date. I was surprised when you said you had an appointment so quickly; a date for an SD usually takes longer than that. However, if you can use it to your advantage, all well and good. I can’t comment on the argument that the two speeding offences were committed “on the same occasion” as I don’t have the details. That phrase is not defined anywhere and is a matter for the court to decide. It’s an interesting thought (and only that) that such an argument could equally be made for the two FtP offences. If the requests for driver’s details arrived at your old address at the same time, with the same deadline for reply, it could be argued that you failed to respond to them both “on the same occasion” (i.e when the 28 days to respond expired) and so should only receive penalty points for one. Hopefully you won’t need to go there. I think you have information about avoiding a “totting up” ban. But here’s the magistrates’ latest guidance on "Exceptional Hardship" (EH) which they refer to: When considering whether there are grounds to reduce or avoid a totting up disqualification the court should have regard to the following: It is for the offender to prove to the civil standard of proof that such grounds exist. Other than very exceptionally, this will require evidence from the offender, and where such evidence is given, it must be sworn. Where it is asserted that hardship would be caused, the court must be satisfied that it is not merely inconvenience, or hardship, but exceptional hardship for which the court must have evidence; Almost every disqualification entails hardship for the person disqualified and their immediate family. This is part of the deterrent objective of the provisions combined with the preventative effect of the order not to drive. If a motorist continues to offend after becoming aware of the risk to their licence of further penalty points, the court can take this circumstance into account. Courts should be cautious before accepting assertions of exceptional hardship without evidence that alternatives (including alternative means of transport) for avoiding exceptional hardship are not viable; Loss of employment will be an inevitable consequence of a driving ban for many people. Evidence that loss of employment would follow from disqualification is not in itself sufficient to demonstrate exceptional hardship; whether or not it does will depend on the circumstances of the offender and the consequences of that loss of employment on the offender and/or others. I must say, I still do not understand what the solicitor means by “As a safeguard we have lodged the appeal and applied to suspend your ban pending appeal due to the time limit for being able to automatically appeal without getting leave of the Judge.” When they speak of “leave of the judge” I assume they mean they have lodged an appeal with the Crown Court. I don’t know what for or why they would do this. It seems to follow on from their explanation of the “totting up” ban. If so, I’m surprised that the Crown Court has accepted an appeal against something that has not yet happened. But as I said, i is no clear to me. Only you can decide whether to employ your solicitor to represent you in court. If it was me I would not because there is nothing he can say that you cannot say yourself. However, I am fairly knowledgeable of the process and confident I can deal with it. That said, I do have a feeling that the solicitor is somewhat “over egging the pudding” by introducing such things as appeals to the Crown Court which, in all honesty, you can deal with if they are required. I can only say that the process you will attempt to employ is by no means unusual and all court users will be familiar with it. I can also say that I have only ever heard of one instance where it was refused. In summary, it is my view that it is very unlikely that your offer to do the deal will be refused. If it is accepted, you may be able to persuade he court that the two speeding offences occurred "on the same occasion" and so should only receive one lot of points. Let me know the details (timings, places, etc) and I'll give you my opinion. Just in case your offer is refused, you should have your EH argument ready. Whether it's worth paying what will amount to many hundreds of pounds to pay someone to see this through is your call.  Let me know if I can help further.    
    • This must be part of the new tactic from Evri.  They know they are going to lose. They take it to the wire and then don't bother to turn up in order to save themselves costs and of course they don't give a damn about the cost to the British taxpayer and the extra court delays they cause. This is a nasty dishonest company – but rather in line with all of the parcel delivery industry which knows that their insurance requirements are unlawful. They know that their prohibited items are for the most part unfair terms. They know for the most part that a "safe place" is exactly what it means – are not left on somebody's doorstep in full view. They know that obtaining a signature means that they have to show the signature not simply claim that they received a signature. They are making huge profits especially from their unlawful and unenforceable insurance requirement. Although this is less valuable than the PPI scandal, in terms of the number of people who are affected nationwide, PPI pales into insignificance. I hope the paralegals working for Evri are proud of themselves and they tell their families what they have done during the day when they go home.
    • Your PCN does not comply with the Protection of freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 Section 9[2][a] (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The only time on the PCN is 17.14. That is only  a time for there to be a period there would have to be a start and and end time mentioned. of course they do show the ANPR arrival and departures  times but that is not the parking period and their times are on the photographs not on the PCN. They also failed to comply with S.9[2][f] as they omitted to say that they could only pursue the keeper if they complied with the Act. That means that they can only pursue the driver as the keeper cannot be held liable for the charge. As they do not know who was driving and Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person they will struggle to win. Especially as so many people are able to legally drive your car and you haven't appealed giving them no indication therefore of who was driving. Small nitpicking point-the date of Infringement was 22/04/2024. They appear to be saying that they can charge an extra amount [up to £70 ] if they have to use a debt collector. You do not have a contract with a debt collector so they cannot add that cost. You paid for four hours so it can only be the 15 minutes they are complaining about. You are entitled to a ten minute minimum grace period at the end of the parking period which would be easier to explain if the car park had been bigger. However if you allow for two minutes to park and two minutes to leave that gives you one minute to account for. Things like being held on the way out by cars in front waiting to get on to Northgate or even your own car being held up trying to get on to Northgate at a busy time. then other considerations like having to stop to allow pedestrians to walk in front of you or being held up by another car doing a u turn in front of your car. you would have to check with the driver and see if they could account for an extra one minute things like a disabled passenger or having to strap in a child . I am not advocating lying since that could lead to serious problems [like jail time] but there can be an awful lot of minor things that can cause a hold up of a minute even the engine not starting straight away or another car being badly parked as examples. Sadly you cannot include the 5 minute Consideration period as both IPC and BPA fail to comply with the convention that you can include that time with the Grace period.  
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Claim Form DLC/Hillies old-MBNA credit card *** Settled by Tomlin Order***


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Just getting my ducks in a row before I start to construct my defence:-

 

21st Sept 09- CCA request to OC

 

6th Oct 09- Reply from OC with signed copy of application form and T&C which are current current. No T&C that were in place at the time of signing.

 

8th Oct 09- I reply back as though the T&C supplied were in place at the time of signing. I queried various sections, all valid queries if the T&C had been in place at time of signing i.e. on the application it says ‘read clause 11 on how we will process your data’, however clause 11 on the T&C is in relation to Altering the Agreement.

 

26th Oct 09- OC reply with ‘your objections are not well founded’ and you need to pay.

 

18th Dec 09- I reply explaining my disappointment at their reply and suggest they address my concerns.

 

8th Feb 10- OC issue invalid DN (1 day short of remedy time). Remedy time should have been 26th Feb, they suggested 25th Feb. I do not explain this to OC.

 

19th Feb 10- OC notify me the account has been sold to DCA (within the remedy time)

 

28th July 10- DCA supply same documents as OC did on 6th Oct 09 (signed application form and current T&C) and a lengthy letter why I need to pay.

 

29th July 10- I reply to DCA with my argument that the DN was invalid and the T&C supplied cannot have been for the application I signed as the clauses mention in the application do not correlate to the clauses on the T&C i.e. on the application it says ‘read clause 11 on how we will process your data’, however clause 11 on the T&C is in relation to Altering the Agreement.

 

6th Sept 10- OC send me a letter in reply to mine of 18th Dec 09, some 9 months after, and they enclose a new set of T&C which they state were in place at the time of signing and the previous set were current T&C.

 

17th Sept 10- I reply to OC stating the T&C you have now supplied have a ‘serious error’ by the author and I suspect they have been constructed after the agreement was signed and have been produced as a direct result of DCA contacting them regarding my queries on the original set of T&C supplied. I have asked them as they sold the account in Feb 10, do not contact me again.

 

22nd Dec 10- DCA also supply the same 2nd set of T&C as OC did on the 17th Sept.

 

24th Dec 10- DCA write to offer a 25% discount on the balance due.

 

8th Jan 11- I write to DCA to explain the T&C they, and OC, now state are the T&C in place on the signing of the agreement are incomplete. The application asks you to refer to clauses 2.4, 3.5 and 3.6 in the T&C with regards to repayments, however there is no 2.4 in the new T&C supplied. Further the application states these are ‘some’ of the condition contained in conditions 1 and 2 of the T&C and refer to the T&C for conditions 1 and 2. However the T&C now supplied start at clause 3.

 

18th Feb 11- DCA reply back after ‘referring back to the OC’ on 14th Jan, and supply a 3rd set of T&C. They state they have been provided by OC and these were the ones in place at the time of signing. There is no mention of the 2nd set of T&C supplied previously by OC; and DCA. The new set are supplied on one A4 sheet and one A3. The A3 runs from term 1 to term 19 and has no terms 4, 5 or 6. The A4 version has the title in the middle of the clauses and runs from term 1 to 19 and duplicates clauses 3.5 up to 7.3. The layout is just not logical and they have never been supplied previously by anyone.

 

28th Feb 11- My solicitor contacts OC to verify the 3rd set of T&C now supplied by DCA were in place at the time of signing or if the 2nd set were in place at the time of signing. If they were to change and state the 3rd set were actually in place we would require the following:- to see their ‘document storing copying and retrieval procedure’ including log entries for 6th Sept (when OC provided the 2nd set of T&C), internal and external audit reports for the period from the one before 6th Sept to present time, copies of quality assurance accreditation covering the same period and showing the process followed complies, a full audit trail from the terms in place prior to signing the application and every change including letters of notification of change to the present terms in place and copies of each terms that have been in place.

 

26th May 11- OC reply confirming the 2nd set were in place at the time of signing and enclose a further copy. This obviously contradicts DCA version of the 3rd set being in place. I have not discussed this with DCA.

 

8th Dec 11- DCA offer 50% discount.

 

2nd Feb 13- Receive Court Claim from DCA via Aplins

 

4th Feb 13- Acknowledge Service online with intention to defend.

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Hi

 

A bit of advice please.

 

I would like a veiw on the bones of my defence now I have started putting it together. When I post it up, should I leave the names of the parties to the claim in except mine! (they will get to see it anyway I suppose).

 

Thanks

 

Alloyz

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Up to you but if the Claimant/Sol is named we tend to know how they operate and their strengths and weaknesses and what possible course of action they will respond with.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Thanks Andy

 

Please see below- It is my first draft so will need some reference to relevant regs but any advice would be great thanks

 

I put the claimant to strict proof the execution of the agreement met the compliance standards set out in Consumer Credit Act 1974 s61, and is therefore enforceable under s127.

 

 

1.

Supplied 6th Oct 2009 by MBNA a document entitled “Credit Card Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974” stated as up to date Terms and Conditions and a copy of the original Application with the Financial and Related Conditions supplied and on the reverse.

 

A.

The Financial and Related Conditions supplied and on the reverse of the application are not mentioned once throughout the entire application.

 

The applicant cannot be deemed to have read and understand them if they are unaware of their existence. The applicant is not required, on the application form, to sign that he has read and understood or even seen the ‘Financial and Related Conditions’.

 

The Application was filled in whilst visiting a Service Station and was on a clip board. The rear was not pointed out to me verbally or referenced in the application and was not visible before or after signing.

 

B.

There is reference of the document entitled “MBNA Credit Card Terms and Conditions” in the declaration section; however up to and including the 6th Oct 2009 documents with this title has not been supplied and was not supplied whilst applying.

 

 

2.

Supplied 12th February 2010 by MBNA a Default Notice dated 8th February 2010

 

A.

Default Notice sent 2nd Class.

Date of service is therefore 4 days after posting and therefore 12th February 2010. The remedy time is 14 clear days AFTER service. Therefore, remedy date should therefore have been 26th February 2010 (13th Feb to 26th Feb).

 

This is a point of law and makes the default notice invalid in accordance with Consumer Credit Enforcement, Default and Termination, Notices Regulations 1983 (Schedule 2, section 3,c)

 

B.

Aside from the allowable time to remedy the breach being insufficient to render the Default Notice valid, the account was sold inside the Default period (I was notified of the sale to Direct Legal- DTL on the 19th February 2010),

 

This is contrary to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 s87 (1) (a).

 

 

3.

Supplied 6th Sept 2010 by MBNA and 22nd December 2010 by Hillesdens a document entitled “Terms and Conditions” which are stated as Original Terms and Conditions with a reference number of MB 04/01, a copy of the original Application with Financial and Related Conditions supplied on the reverse and a document entitled “Credit Card Agreement Regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974” stated as up to date Terms and Conditions.

This document entitled “Terms and Conditions” has a reference number in the bottom left hand corner. This reference number is MB 04/01. This is suggesting they were current for the period of April 2001, 1 month previous to my Application.

 

A.

The document entitled “Terms and Conditions” supplied on 6th Sept 2010 by MBNA and Hillesdens on 22nd December 2010 and both parties stating these are the Original Terms and Conditions at the time of signing the Agreement are not referred to once throughout the entire application form and could be for any Agreement or Application.

 

B.

The Financial and Related Conditions on the reverse of the application form, condition 4, states in relation to “repayments” ‘...except as mentioned in 2.4, 3.5 and 3.6’.

 

In the document entitled “Terms and Conditions” supplied on 6th Sept 2010 by MBNA and Hillesdens on 22nd December 2010 and both stating these are the Original Terms and Conditions at the time of signing the Agreement, there is the absence of a condition 2.4 in the documents supplied to me.

 

Repayments are a Prescribed Term and as instructed by s61, should be included in the Agreement document.

 

A valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest (SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.

C.

In the document entitled “Terms and Conditions” supplied on 6th Sept 2010 by MBNA and Hillesdens on 22nd December 2010 and both stating these are the Original Terms and Conditions at the time of signing the Agreement, it states “please refer to your credit agreement for conditions 1 and 2” and this document then starts at condition 3.

 

On the Application it states “set out in paragraphs 1-15 are “some” of the provisions contained in Conditions 1 and 2 of the MBNA Credit Card Terms and Conditions”.

 

However up to and including 6th Sept 2010 I had not been supplied with a document entitled “MBNA Credit Card Terms and Conditions” and on the “Terms and Conditions” supplied there is no condition 1 or 2.

 

Prescribed Terms must be included in the Agreement documents and there is a lack of the full conditions 1 and 2 to be found in any documents supplied.

 

A valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest (SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.

 

4.

Supplied 18th February 2011 by Hillesdens 2 documents, both entitled “Terms and Conditions of the MBNA Credit Card and Credit Card Cheques”.

 

I was supplied with 2 documents and Hillesdens state these are from the original lender.

 

These documents are not set out in any logical format and the larger document does not contain all of the conditions the applicant is requested to refer to on the back of the application:

 

• The larger document runs from Term 1 to 3.4. There is an absence of Term 4, 5, 6 and resumes at Term 7.4.

 

• The Financial and Related Conditions on the reverse of the application form, condition 4, states in relation to “repayments” ‘...except as mentioned in 2.4, 3.5 and 3.6’. This larger document does not contain 3.5 or 3.6 however it states this document is a ‘…full set of terms and conditions of the MBNA Credit Card and Credit Cheques referred to on the back of your application’.

 

• There is no mention of referring to a document entitled “MBNA Credit Card and Credit Cheques” within the application I signed

 

• The smaller document duplicates Terms 3.5 to 7.3.

 

• The smaller document is illegible at A4 size.

 

• The smaller document has a title in the middle of the page.

 

• I have never been supplied with the documents previously at all.

 

 

5.

Supplied 17th June 2011 (dated 26th May 2011) by MBNA, after my request to MBNA to confirm the terms and Conditions supplied on the 6th Sept 2010 were the ones in force at the time of signing the application.

 

A.

I asked MBNA to re-confirm the Terms and Conditions in force at the time the application was signed due to a conflict of MBNA information and Hillesdens. The same copy as supplied in MBNA and Hillesdens letters on 6th Sept 2010 were supplied by MBNA and they were confirmed as the ones in force at the time of signing the application.

Therefore please refer to 3 A, B and C.

 

B.

Hillesdens have stated the original lender has supplied the previous terms and conditions in 4. This is contradicted by MBNA and shown in my defence section 5. I put the claimant to strict proof of authenticity of the documents under CPR32.19.

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Hi Alloyz

 

First draft...you mean its going to get longer?:!:

 

Defending any claim is like playing chess there is a process to follow.Vague Particulars of Claim entered..argument kept minimal ...less is best...less for you to find fault.So long as it complies with CPR 16 the court are happy.I call this testing the water to see what you will do.

Your initial response...you refute or agree anything not referred to is taken as acceptance and admittance by you the defendant.So your response will deal with what they claim and only what they claim...your response just as vague...now you are testing the water and see if they wish to proceed.

 

50% of claims are stayed if the defendants response is correct...do not forget 80% of claims are by way of assignment so its not the OP litigating...they know its pointless and not cost efficient to sue so they write it off and claim tax relief.

Not the debt buyers...but they can afford to submit an initial claim..they bought it for 10p in the pound so any litigation that is successful is good profit..and here on CAG we only see a snapshot so lets assume that 80% of claims are not defended...nice profit nice business.

 

Anyway I digress ......so to the 20% that do offer defence...this creates work and jeopardises their investment in that debt having to now pay further monies and even instruct council (in some cases) to process the claim.That 10p in the £1 now could become a break even trying to get judgment...with the obvious intention of a Charging Order to secure their investment.Not so profitable now.

 

So back to your draft...you have played your hand in one foul swoop and revealed all your argument/contentions that you could possibly offer...there is no surprises left along the way for the AQ or Witness Statement so they can now decide whether to proceed and take you on pay the AQ fee edge their bets with an application for Summary Judgment......game over you lose.

 

Here is an example of a defence drafted this week for another poster:-

 

Re: MBNA / LinkIDR Finance - claim form received... Help?

Particulars of Claim:-

 

1.The Claimant claims the whole of the outstanding balance due and payable under an agreement referenced XXXXX and opened effective from 07/04/2007. The agreement is regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, was signed by the Defendant and from which credit was extended to the Defendant.

 

2.The Defendant failed to make payment as required and by 29/02/2012 a default was recorded. As at 27/04/2012 the Defendant owed MBNA Europe Bank Limited the sum of 8,036.95. By an agreement in writing the benefit of the debt has been legally assigned to the Claimant effective 27/04/2012 and made regular upon the Claimant serving a Notice of Assignment upon the Defendant shortly thereafter.

 

3.And the Claimant claims:- 1. 8,166.95 2. interest pursuant to Section 69 county court Act (1984) at a rate of 8% per Annum from 27/04/2012 to 04/01/2013 of 423.30 And thereafter at a daily rate of 1.70 to date of judgment or sooner payment.

 

Defence and Part 20 Counter Claim

 

 

1. Paragraph 1 is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering in to an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the MBNA Europe Bank Limited the Defendant did not enter into any Agreement with the Claimant.

2. Paragraph 2 is admitted but it is denied that MBNA ever served a Default Notice pursuant to the CCA1974 which precludes the claimant from any enforcement or relief.

3. Paragraph 3 is denied the Claimant has failed to serve any Notice of Sums Arrears since assignment pursuant to the CCA2006 amendments (sec 86C ) and precluded form adding any interest or seeking enforcement or relief and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show service of a valid Default Notice and proof of delivery

(b) show how the Claimant has legal right by way of the Credit Consumer Agreement and Terms and conditions applicable; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

5. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

6.Incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant are sums claimed for their administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions. It is denied (if it be alleged) that the Claimant has incurred any such fees and charges, alternatively that such fees and charges if incurred accurately represent sums lost by the Claimant by reason of late payment. The Defendant avers that the incorporation of such claims is penal and unenforceable at law.

 

7. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

 

Part 20 Claim

 

8. The defendant/Part 20 claimant claims sums paid to the claimant /Part 20 defendant in relation to penalty Charges Incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant are sums claimed for their administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions.

 

 

And the defendant/Part 20 claimant claims:-

 

 

i) £ XX XXX XXXX unfair charges (expand on reasoning) (insert compound interest) show separate

 

ii) Interest pursuant to Section 69 of the County Courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum or up until judgment.

 

 

 

There you are one Defence and Part 20 Counter Claim.Let others verify it before your submission and do not forget to print off your poof of input date time stamp after submission

 

 

 

Time for a rethink Alloyz?

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Time for a rethink Andy...

 

I guess I am naive on 2 points

 

1. I have not done this before so am a bit lost as to what is expected

 

2. This defence is really a summary of the 3 year episode.

 

I will go away and start again with the defence you have given as a example. Keep It Simple Stupid comes to mind :)

 

Thanks Andy

 

Alloyz

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Not to worry it is a common trap that most litigants fall into....understanding the process/game does bring it into perspective.

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I am still laughing at "first draft?? You mean its going to get longer??" ;)

 

:wink::boink:

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Ok... After Andy has provided some 'guidance' (still laughing at the above post!!) here is a shortened draft 2...

 

Particulars of Claim:

 

1. The Claimant claims is in respect of a credit facility, XXXXXXXXXXXX, provided by MBNA at the defendants request on 05/06/2001.

 

2. The agreement was subsequently defaulted. Failure to meet requests for payment resulted in the account being terminated.

 

3. On 23/02/2010 all legal and beneficial interest for the monies was assigned to Hillesdens Securities Ltd. The defendant was duly notified in writing of the assignment and that the balance of XXXXX was due. The balance of XXXXX remains owing from the defendant.

 

 

Defence

 

 

1. Paragraph 1 is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering in to an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the MBNA Europe Bank Limited.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is admitted but it is denied that MBNA ever served a Default Notice pursuant to the CCA1974 which precludes the claimant from any enforcement or relief.

 

3. Paragraph 3 is denied the Claimant has not provided an agreement pursuant to CCA1974, which subsequently precludes enforcement. The Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show service of a valid Default Notice and proof of delivery

(b) show how the Claimant has legal right by way of the Credit Consumer Agreement and Terms and conditions applicable

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

4. Incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant are sums claimed for administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions. It is denied (if it be alleged) that the Claimant has incurred any such fees and charges, alternatively that such fees and charges if incurred accurately represent sums lost by the Claimant by reason of late payment. The Defendant avers that the incorporation of such claims is penal and unenforceable at law.

 

5. The Claimant is put to strict proof the:

 

(a) amount claimed is only monies received by the Defendant plus interest, and not made up of any administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions.

 

6. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

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Thats better......

 

5a is not required nor coherent they are not claiming monies you have payed...otherwise there wouldn't be a debt...and the fact you have already covered that in 4.

 

Your point 3 is also incorrect they dont have to provide a copy of the agreement to prove NoA (Assignment)

As per my above your response should be :-

 

3. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.The Claimant has failed to serve any Notice of Assignment. (unless they have then you just have accept the assignment providing it valid.)

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Hi Andy

 

Very much appreciate your input. The donation I am about to make pales into insignificance compared to my benefit.

 

Thank you

 

Particulars of Claim:

 

1. The Claimant claims is in respect of a credit facility, xxxx, provided by MBNA at the defendants request on 05/06/2001.

 

2. The agreement was subsequently defaulted. Failure to meet requests for payment resulted in the account being terminated.

 

3. On 23/02/2010 all legal and beneficial interest for the monies was assigned to Hillesdens Securities Ltd. The defendant was duly notified in writing of the assignment and that the balance of xxxxx was due. The balance of xxxxx remains owing from the defendant.

 

 

Defence

 

 

1. Paragraph 1 is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering in to an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with the MBNA Europe Bank Limited.

 

2. Paragraph 2 is admitted but it is denied that MBNA ever served a Default Notice pursuant to the CCA1974 which precludes the claimant from any enforcement or relief.

 

3. Paragraph 3 admitted regarding the Notice of Assignment. The Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show service of a valid Default Notice and proof of delivery

(b) show how the Claimant has legal right by way of the Credit Consumer Agreement and Terms and conditions applicable

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

4. Incorporated within the sum demanded by the Claimant are sums claimed for administration fees, late payment charges and like provisions. It is denied (if it be alleged) that the Claimant has incurred any such fees and charges, alternatively that such fees and charges if incurred accurately represent sums lost by the Claimant by reason of late payment. The Defendant avers that the incorporation of such claims is penal and unenforceable at law.

 

5. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

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So you have received a valid Notice of Assignment to enable the claimant to claim the debt in their name?

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Ok excellent... nearly there ....

 

 

Now on your point 2

 

They state" 2. The agreement was subsequently defaulted. Failure to meet requests for payment resulted in the account being terminated. "

 

You state "2. Paragraph 2 is admitted but it is denied that MBNA ever served a Default Notice pursuant to the CCA1974 which precludes the claimant from any enforcement or relief.

 

 

Most DJ would accept that there is a point in law that needs clarifying.. you admit defaulting but to beef up your response... lets add :-

 

2. Paragraph 2 is admitted but it is denied that MBNA ever served a Default Notice pursuant to the CCA1974 the claimant has also failed to serve any Notice of Sums Arrears since assignment pursuant to the CCA2006 amendments (sec 86C ) and precluded form adding any interest or seeking enforcement or relief until such time it is served.

 

 

The secret is knowing how to read a P.O.C and making them work/pay for their investment...dont accept all is said you always question and challenge and add doubt.If you dont the DJ will mostly accept it must be correct then.

 

Your good to go now Alloyz

 

Regards

 

Andy:wink:

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Excellent now should they wish to respond and proceed you can write chapter and verse in your Witness Statement.:wink:

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haha I was waiting for that!!

 

I still am not sure of what happens next but will be reading your litigation notes. When you get time could you explain a few things please?

 

When I submit this defence, do I send it to them as well, out of courtesy or does the court forward to them?

 

Should I wait for the CPR disclosure reply?

 

If they proceed, is a Witness Statement a more detailed insight into the case for the judge and both parties or just the judge?

 

How does an AQ differ from a WS?

 

Thanks

 

Alloyz

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haha I was waiting for that!!

 

I still am not sure of what happens next but will be reading your litigation notes. When you get time could you explain a few things please?

 

When I submit this defence, do I send it to them as well, out of courtesy or does the court forward to them? Northampton Copies them

 

Should I wait for the CPR disclosure reply? Yes only file your defence at the last possible moment (the day before)

 

If they proceed, is a Witness Statement a more detailed insight into the case for the judge and both parties or just the judge? Both Parties exchange and yes more detailed and can include anything relied upon

 

How does an AQ differ from a WS? an Allocation Questionnaire helps the court allocate the claim to its correct track and prepares it for trial (if they wish to proceed and pay the fee that is) a WS is as above

 

Thanks

 

Alloyz

 

Andy

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all now sorted then alloyz? :)

 

Hi ford

 

Yes thankyou. You have all, as usual, been brilliant.

 

I'm just waiting for a reply to my CPR disclosure and extension request.

 

Then I can submit my defence and wait for their move- proceed or not.

 

Feel like I have learned (or been taught) a lot!! Andy has really opened my eyes to how to only address their specific comments and not offer any more info, so not to play your cards too soon and make them consider the work they will have to do over the cost against investment.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Alloyz

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I'm just waiting for a reply to my CPR disclosure and extension request.

 

.....

 

Alloyz

 

and, if they don't respond, could include a short line in your defence mentioning their failure?

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Hi Ford/ Andy

 

If they do not respond or if they respond with an extension of time agreed- Is it possible to notify the court via MCOL or is it best special delivery? I can't say I have looked on MCOL so apologies if its obvious on the site.

 

Basic question I know but all help is very much appreciated.

 

A

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