Help needed with HFC claim please

[dx100uk]

yes you can

hit the edit post in the grey bar

 

dx

[dx100uk]

well at the end of the day its more that £13,800!!

 

so WHAT is it?

 

cant be PPI on loan 6 as 133.40*120=£16,008.

 

might be fun to play around with this bit:

 

 

on 25/02/2002 loan 5 was at £10,533.00.

 

loan 6 eventually was listed on CCCS Statements a starting bal of £13,964.86.

 

£3413.86 diff.

 

dx

[ukdarrenfan]

I've no answers for that!All I can do is take it from the payments that I know we made, and point this out on the FOS questionnaire. I can send them proof of all the payment that we made on that loan.

[ukdarrenfan]

yes you can

hit the edit post in the grey bar

 

dx

 

I tried, but for some reason it still wouldn't change it

[ukdarrenfan]

The November 05 payment was £232.96.

[ukdarrenfan]

I've had a go at the spreadsheet for loan 6, taking 16% of each payment as PPI. Can you check if I've done it correctly.Thanks

[ukdarrenfan]

I've had a go at the spreadsheet for loan 6, taking 16% of each payment as PPI. Can you check if I've done it correctly.Thanks

Sorry, have you had the chance to check that I've worked it out properly yet? Thanks.

[dx100uk]

I've attached the initial paperwork for loan 6 and also the account set-up paperwork for loan 4. This gives the figures that were paid off on loans 2 & 3.

 

darren post up the unredacted loan 4 setup paperwork as in post 45

i'll get it and the delte it.

 

i dont understand that arrow you've put

 

working on the rest but 6 looks wrong at 16% sri

 

dx

[ukdarrenfan]

Whoops, sorry. The arrow was only to make sure that you didn't miss the number of the loans that this one paid off. The numbers on there originally were so small and faint it was hard to tell. Just wanted to make sure it was something that couldn't be missed,lol! I'll try and post the loan 4 paperwork as soon as I can. I don't have a scanner at work, but I know someone who does. If she's not busy I'll get it up later, if not it will have to wait until I get home. Thanks

Edited March 7, 2013 by ukdarrenfan

[ukdarrenfan]

Changed the original now. Is that ok? I think the other paperwork will only be of use to me and not you. The information is only the same as on the loan agreement.

Edited March 7, 2013 by ukdarrenfan

[ukdarrenfan]

Are the spreadsheets for Loans 2, 4 and 5 correct that have already been done? Is it just loan 6 that needs doing now?

[dx100uk]

ok got the sheet and unapproved it so no-one can see it.

 

as the sheets go that have been done so far.

 

yes they are correct but not complete

 

there is more info to go on

then the whole lot need stitching together.

 

i'll try a bit more later.

 

dx

[ukdarrenfan]

Thanks. I've nearly finished putting the whole lot together now. Just got to sort out the FOS questionnaire and I'm done.Angie

[dx100uk]

we are not by any means near the end result of the spreadsheets

 

they will change once this further info is digested

so they are notyet cast in stone.

not ready to post off

 

dx

[ukdarrenfan]

No problem. As long as I've got everything else ready I just need to add the spreadsheets whenever they are sorted. I can't thank you enough for all your help with this.

[dx100uk]

actually its quite damning for you

i didnt see that box on the left of the loan 4 scan.

 

1/we understand that all of these insurance policies are optional ^ not a condition of any loan facility

 

dx

[ukdarrenfan]

Not really as in all my correspondence with HFC I never claimed that we were told we had to have it.

 

I printed off the PDF of the reasons that HFC were fined and the main reason that I am claiming is under Principle 9 of the FSA's principles for business and rules which states:

 

A firm must take reasonable care to ensure the suitability of its advice and discretionary decisions

for any customer who is entitled to rely upon its judgement

 

In HFC's case it says that they were not required to gather, and take into account, sufficient information about customers'

personal circumstances and objectives when making sales and their processes

did not therefore take adequate steps to ensure that it's personal recommendations were suitable

 

and that they

 

did not provide customers with information that adequately set out their demands and needs and

did not explain why they were recommending the policy.

 

Nor did they require their advisors to identify the customer's demands and needs which would not be met.

 

We always had other policies in force at the time we were advised to take their PPI.

 

From life insurance (sometimes multiple!), sick pay, redundancy pay,

we were always covered and never needed it.

 

For the loans up until late 1997 I worked part-time, 3 evenings a week,

yet they still recommended that we take out their insurances.

 

They never told us of any exclusions in the policy or asked us if we had any pre-existing medical conditions, nothing.

 

I do remember them asking lots of questions, about what we earned, etc,

 

but just thought that was the information they needed to decide whether we could get the loan or not.

[dx100uk]

ok thats great work.

 

dx

[ukdarrenfan]

Actually in some of the account set up paperwork they've damned themselves, because it shows other insurances that we already have! Luckily, back in November (before the SAR) they asked my reasons for claiming and that was my main reason. I never said in writing to them that we were told we had to have it. The only ones I remember saying that were Yes Car Credit.

[dx100uk]

ok with the exceptional help of IMS21

we had a good few hours on skype last night till the small hours

 

i'll post our thoughs as soon as i can

 

been rather busy today

 

dx

[ukdarrenfan]

Ok, thanks.

[dx100uk]

IMS:

I get slightly different figs to you but here goes

 

Loan 2 PPI is 21.81% of that loan.

Balance at settlement on loan 2 is £6816.34

so 21.81% of it is £1486.40.

That is the PPI amount roilled into loan 4 from loan 2.

 

Loan 3 we have to dump becasue we have no data

 

Loan 4 total is £11833.67 (inc the ppi on the loan)

and the total repayment for the whole loan is £308.66

 

the rollover amount from loan 2 is £1486.40. 1486.40/11833.67 x 100 = 12.56%.

 

12.56% of the total monthly repayment of loan 4 is 308.66 x 12.56% = 38.77.

So for every payment of loan 4, 38.77% of it was for loan 2 PPI.

 

We already have the monthly figure for the loan 4 PPI at £65.69 per month.

 

Loan 4 settlement was £8403.38.

 

The PPI percentage for loan 4 (its own PPI) was 2518.67/11833.67 x 100 = 21.28%

 

£8403.38 x 21.28% = £1788.23 = loan 4 PPI rolled into loan 5

£8403.38 x 12.56% = £1055.46 = loan 2 PPI rolled into loan 5.

 

I was going to ask whether we assume that the loan 5 settlement was the £13,800 but that is too round a number to be correct.

 

Ok...given that loan 5 in total at the outset was £10,000 + £2,534 PPI making a total of £12,534,

it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that,

if he was in difficulty and wasn't paying it,

then the balance could have risen to £13,000 odd.

 

What about basing the next bit of the calcs on the assumption that £13,800

was the amount to settle loan 5 and they just did that interest free?

 

Ok...shall we assume that loan 5 settlement was £13,800 do you think?

 

So we either need some more info from the OP or we suggest something to him.

 

ok so let's at least get the loan 5 figures worked out which we can use up to the point of settlemrnt by loan 6.

 

Loan 5 total amount inc PPI was £12534.25

Loan 5's own PPI was £2534.25

Loan 4 PPI rolled into loan 5 was £1,788.23

Loan 2 PPI rolled into loan 5 was £1,055.26

Loan 5 PPI was 2534.25/12534.25 x 100 = 20.22% of loan 5

Loan 4 PPI rollover was 1788.23/12534.25 x 100 = 14.23% of loan 5

Loan 2 PPI rollover was 1055.26/12534.25 x 100 = 8.42% of loan 5

 

Those will be the percentages of the respective PPIs in the loan 5 repayments.

 

Dx100UK: can we thus reverse engineer as we can assume the monthly payments WERE made @ the required PCM until loan 6 start? 25/7/2002

ims.21: We can do....I can run that through the loan analysis spreadsheet. Back in a mo.....

 

Ok that means he would have made 34 payments.

The settlement figure on loan 5 shows as being £7,022.18 at that point.

 

Question then is, if they gave him £13,800 and only £7,000 was needed to settle loan 5, what about the other£6,800?

Dx100UK: agreement of loan 6 says it was ALL for refinance of loan 5.

 

So he couldn't have made the correct payments on loan 5...

.he must have fallen behind but as you say, £13,800 is an incredibly round figure for a settlement.

 

Dx100UK: no he cant have been can he as he was with CCCS for loan 5.

 

ims.21: I think we're getting there but it is just the last couple of bits of the jigsaw missing.

Can we ask him for more info....if he has nothing I think he will just have to put his claim in

and take a view on what offer might be made.

 

This of course is a case where he MUST demand a detailed breakdown of any calculations they use to arrive at an offer.

 

Dx100UK: yea good idea, just having a scan as i think there is loan 5 info of sorts or he says something on thread.

he started with CCCS just before he took out loan 6 hence the figure of where loan 5 was at close to 25/5/2.

It appears that in May 02 we were starting to deal with the CCCS.

 

ok so if the loan balance at may 02 was £10,500 he was deffo behind in his payments.

I woukd guess he was making sporadic payments if he was in financial difficulties.

 

That is where the problem is going to lie in working oit what PPI was actually paid through loan 5.

We would need to know the amounts paid and the dates of payments etc.

Without that we are a bit kippered.

 

Dx100UK: and again, we dont know what ruddy charges HFC added either.

 

ims.21: no...and becasue it so long ago I doubt very much whether he will get information from them or CCCS for that matter

 

Dx100UK: so.back to your idea of a 'semi-speculative' PPI claim,

usign the details we are sure on, then question HFC for a detailed breakdown...good move!

 

ims.21: I think that is the best way to go.

We could be asking him questions until summer and still not get the info.

 

At least he's had a great stab at working something out and he can get his claim underway.

 

Attack it from the other way round....see what they come up and challenge if what they say is not logical.

 

dx with thanks to ims21

[ukdarrenfan]

Blimey you were busy!

 

I was speaking with my husband this morning and we were racking our brains trying to think what was going on around that time.

 

He remembered that probably during loan 5 we were using Baines and Ernst for a while.

 

I do remember that we missed one payment when we started that,

as they told us to stop payments to all creditors while they arranged a DMP,

but we definitely didn't miss loads of payments.

 

As soon as we discovered the CCCS we started using them instead.

 

Baines and Ernst never managed to get interest stopped on any of our payments and we had to pay them a monthly fee too.

It was one of our creditors that suggested using the CCCS, by saying we would be looked on more favourably.

 

I know we were having difficulties but we managed somehow.

 

We started a DMP before things got too out of hand.

 

I've no idea how the figures can be so different, but it's definitely not down to us missing loads of payments, or making sporadic payments.

 

Perhaps we were making reduced payments through Baines and Ernst but the interest was still building up?

 

Can't see that it would be that much though.

 

Never mind, no statements or anything so we can't do much about that.

 

Just a few questions.

 

Are the spreadsheets for the other loans correct to send now, or do they need to be changed at all?

 

Am I correct in thinking that there won't be a spreadsheet for loan 6 due to these differing figures?

I need to rely on HFC to make me an offer for that loan, yes?

Thank you so much for all of your help.

 

There's no way I could have got to this stage otherwise.

Angie

Edited March 14, 2013 by ukdarrenfan

[dx100uk]

the spreadies will need re jigging.

 

baines & earnst

 

ruddy fleecers

they would most prob have not paid anything .

 

back later

 

 

dx

[ukdarrenfan]

the spreadies will need re jigging.

 

baines & earnst

 

ruddy fleecers

they would most prob have not paid anything .

 

back later

 

 

dx

 

Yes we discovered that.

 

We ended up having to pay them about £64 a month as a fee.

 

They told us just to stop paying everybody and they would sort it.

 

We had creditors ringing all the time for ages.

 

It was so much hassle.

 

I'm not sure if it was HFC who told us about the CCCS and told us that they would be able to get the interest stopped on our loan.

 

They were by far the largest debt we had, all the others were small payments to store cards or catalogue payments.

 

As soon as we started dealing with the CCCS it all calmed down and we had no hassle from anyone anymore.