PCN for entering and stopping in a box junction

[Ysme]

Hi I have a PCN I entered a box junction as I could see the traffic moving in front of the stationary cars in front of me and had only stops for about 10 seconds and only had my back half of my car in the box junction blocking no traffic can I contest this?

[ploddertom]

I've created a new thread for you.

[sgtbush]

rules are clear on box juc

if your exit is blocked DO NOT ENTER

 

you have already answered your own question, your way was blocked by stationary cars infront, yet you still entered AND STOPPED yourself

 

what you should of done is crept along as slowly as possicle without stopping, therefore contravention does not occur, you however stopped

 

sorry to be the bearer of bad news but not on those grounds you state

however their is an avanue on the box junc itself if its incorrectly painted signposterd etc etc

[sailor sam]

http://www.ticketfighter.co.uk/yellow.htm

 

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[renegadeimp]

rules are clear on box juc

if your exit is blocked DO NOT ENTER

 

you have already answered your own question, your way was blocked by stationary cars infront, yet you still entered AND STOPPED yourself

 

what you should of done is crept along as slowly as possicle without stopping, therefore contravention does not occur, you however stopped

 

sorry to be the bearer of bad news but not on those grounds you state

however their is an avanue on the box junc itself if its incorrectly painted signposterd etc etc

 

Correct. It's even taught in driving lessons now. It doesnt matter if the traffic ahead of the car in front of you is moving.

If that car is stationary, then your exit is blocked and you must NOT enter that box junction. It's really as simple as that. The ONLY time you are allowed to move in when your exit is blocked is to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle.

[crem]

Correct. It's even taught in driving lessons now. It doesnt matter if the traffic ahead of the car in front of you is moving.

If that car is stationary, then your exit is blocked and you must NOT enter that box junction. It's really as simple as that. The ONLY time you are allowed to move in when your exit is blocked is to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle.

 

well we have always tried to teach YBJ as best we can renegadeimp, so not sure why you think that is a "taught now" comment, although equally, I'm not sure where you have found this apparent exemption that you can enter for an emergency vehicle?

 

I think you would find if you consulted the emergency services on such a policy, they would be totally evasive of giving a direct answer. You'll get some waffle about "the general public are not expected to contravene any road trafficc sign or speed limit" and "the emergency vehicle driver is highly trained to negotiate traffic" Equally, if you apply this practice (such as refusing to move a few feet over the white line at a traffic light on red) they can be quite forceful at "encouraging" you to do so!!

[renegadeimp]

I only mentioned it like that crem, because its become a major part of the Driving lessons, and not simply a " passing through tip".

 

As for direct answer, the official answer giving by instructors is along the lines of, " You only enter the box when the exit is obstructed when an emergency vehicle needs to pass. However, if there is an obstruction inside the box, or you entering the box will cause a major hazard or safety risk to yourself or others, then you must NOT enter until you are sure the hazard can be avoided".

 

Of course, a LOT of police officers will honk, flash, curse you for not moving, but thats how it goes. If it was an ambulance or fire engine, then exceptional circumstances could apply. Thats how it comes across from ADI's anyway.

[crem]

As for direct answer, the official answer giving by instructors is along the lines of, " You only enter the box when the exit is obstructed when an emergency vehicle needs to pass. However, if there is an obstruction inside the box, or you entering the box will cause a major hazard or safety risk to yourself or others, then you must NOT enter until you are sure the hazard can be avoided".

 

as with many things when teaching people to drive, there is often no "official answer" as such, this being one of them. Whilst that may be something some instructors might advise, I certainly for one, wouldn't put it anything like that!

[green_and_mean]

The ONLY time you are allowed to move in when your exit is blocked is to get out of the way of an emergency vehicle.

 

That is not an exemption it is mitigation and not a legal reason to contravene the regulations. You can however enter the box if area in front of you is blocked if you intend to turn right and need to wait for a gap in oncoming traffic.

[renegadeimp]

Maybe not LEGAL, but certainly allowed.

[green_and_mean]

Maybe not LEGAL, but certainly allowed.

 

Allowed by who? Its either a legal exemption or not, drivers are not permitted to stop in the box, jump red lights, drive in a bus lane or anything else thats not legal just because they hear a siren. Highway Code rule 219 is quite clear "take appropriate action to let it (the emergency vehicle) pass, while complying with all traffic signs"

[Tony P]

You can however enter the box if area in front of you is blocked if you intend to turn right and need to wait for a gap in oncoming traffic.

Presumably only if the exit was clear when you entered?

 

What if an oncoming vehicle turns (his) left and blocks what was your exit when you moved forward and waiting?

[crem]

Presumably only if the exit was clear when you entered?

 

What if an oncoming vehicle turns (his) left and blocks what was your exit when you moved forward and waiting?

 

I believe we have touched on this (theoretical) scenario when discussing YBJs, but don't believe we have had a "real life" situation come up like this.

 

If I understand what you are describing correctly, you are saying car#1 drives into YBJ to turn right and can see the exit is clear but is blocked by oncoming traffic. Whilst waiting 1 or more of these oncoming cars (#2, #3) turn to their left and have to stop for an unspecified hazard. Lights now change but car #1 cannot get out of the box because cars #2 and #3 are now blocking the exit. Has car #1 committed a contravention.

 

IMO no he hasn't and I would claim "the contravention did not occur" hopefully reviewing the video to support this.