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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
    • Makers of insect-based animal feed hope to be able to compete with soybeans on price.View the full article
    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest **WON**


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This is exactly why Westy and his mate Deller are valued member of the CAG, keeping us all inspired and amused.

 

How kind!

 

:oops:

 

W

  • Haha 1

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Westy Hun!!!

 

How you doing huney bear?

 

Ive not been on much of late as im back to work properly now?

 

So how you getting on with organising the Do?

Allyxia

KEEP FIGHTING FOR YOUR MONEY - EVEN WHEN IT GETS TOUGH

The Banks are somewhere which lends you an umberella when it is sunny, and takes it away when it rains

 

HSBC £1200 - Settled in Full

Cap 1 2 X £100 - Settled in Full

Nationwide £1641 - Settled in Full inc Default and CCJ Removed by Court Order

NatWest £2215.60- Settled in Full and Removed Default Natice

Woolwich £3690 - Settled in Full

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Think he's been a bit busy for that Ally.

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Think he's been a bit busy for that Ally.

 

you should do it then you waste enough time on here LMAO!!!!

Allyxia

KEEP FIGHTING FOR YOUR MONEY - EVEN WHEN IT GETS TOUGH

The Banks are somewhere which lends you an umberella when it is sunny, and takes it away when it rains

 

HSBC £1200 - Settled in Full

Cap 1 2 X £100 - Settled in Full

Nationwide £1641 - Settled in Full inc Default and CCJ Removed by Court Order

NatWest £2215.60- Settled in Full and Removed Default Natice

Woolwich £3690 - Settled in Full

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This is exactly why Westy and his mate Deller are valued member of the CAG, keeping us all inspired and amused.

 

Obviously not somebody who knows you pair as well as me then!!!:rolleyes:

 

You'll learn Stansfield.........You'll learn.......:D

Allyxia

KEEP FIGHTING FOR YOUR MONEY - EVEN WHEN IT GETS TOUGH

The Banks are somewhere which lends you an umberella when it is sunny, and takes it away when it rains

 

HSBC £1200 - Settled in Full

Cap 1 2 X £100 - Settled in Full

Nationwide £1641 - Settled in Full inc Default and CCJ Removed by Court Order

NatWest £2215.60- Settled in Full and Removed Default Natice

Woolwich £3690 - Settled in Full

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This is exactly why Westy and his mate Deller are valued member of the CAG, keeping us all inspired and amused.

 

Why thank you stansfield :D

  • Haha 1

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Westy Hun!!!

 

How you doing huney bear?

 

Ive not been on much of late as im back to work properly now?

 

So how you getting on with organising the Do?

 

What, me????

 

But you're the one who lives near Cardiff, and I haven't got my money yet (though I've had a second offer - £8000, this time: I'll reject it and explain the interest, as they haven't grasped it yet) so I was only going to be an observer (with speaking rights) anyway!

 

Just back from the NW of England. Long day. Lots to do tomorrow.

 

W

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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I got it today. Ripped the envelope open excitedly just an hour ago. Then tore the letter to pieces with my teeth in a rage.

 

anyone got any sellotape?

 

oh - I remember now: I got that office kit for 73p from Tesco's. It's around here somewhere.....

:D

 

W

  • Confused 1

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Hi leviathan, In regards to the AQ

 

See here:

 

Allocation Questionnaires - A guide to completion

 

You could also propose a Draft Directions Order:

New strategy for Allocation Questionaires

 

Other Information - Section G:

 

I am respectfully requesting that my claim be allocated to the small claims track.

 

This issue is not a complicated one; it is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer’s contractual breaches exceed their actual costs incurred. I am happy to pay their actual costs and I am surprised the Defendant did not counterclaim for these, because I would have paid them without argument.

 

However, the continuing problem is, (in common with the 100s of other cases currently being brought by other bank customers), that the banks refuse to reveal the details of their penalty-charging regime. As the banks have a fiduciary duty towards their customers, they have a duty to deal straightforwardly and in utmost good faith.

 

Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. This would bring a rapid end, not only to this litigation, but would also likely bring an end to much of the litigation in progress against other high-street banks.

 

It's a bit of squeeze, but very important you enter all the details.

 

Include copy of schedule

 

Cheque to HM Courts Service

 

Fee will be added automatically to your claim

 

Send copy of your AQ to Cobbetts

 

Hope this helps!! :wink:

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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That's terrific, i'm panaking a little, recieved the banks AQ and they seem intent on going all steam a head, also, my particulars of claim didn't fit into my initial N1 application form, should i contribute this info now, since the Particulars of the Claim looked like this

 

1. The Claimant Mr XXXX holds a bank account with the Defendanct between the dates of XXX-xxx the defendanct applied numerous default charges to the Claimant's account.

2. Under the law of penalties thebcharges are unlawful as they are an "extravagent" penalty, Referring back to the care of 1896, Wilson V Love, a charge is a panalty if it does not relate to the true cost of an item

3. As outline in the County Courts Act at the rate of 8% per annum from the date they were first deprived af the money to the date of this claim. This amount to a total sum of XXX, contunuing to accrue at the statutory rate until judgement or earlier payment, the dialy rate being 0.021%

4. The Claimant therefore asks the court to enter judgement in favour of the sum of XXX plus interest, amounting to a total of XXX

 

 

Now this is all that's in my partiulars of claim, should i take the AQ as the opportunity to add more information? I remeber there were only a certain number of characters aloud on the MCO website. that's all

 

HELP!!!:confused:

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Hello,

Does anyone have a template for a covering letter I want to send to the Court with my hard copy of the schedule of charges? I know I saw one on a thread a while back but cant seem to find it again?

Thanks

 

I assume you filed your claim through MCOL, if so send your schedule with this letter.

 

(YOUR ADDRESS)

The Court Manager

Money Claim Online

Northampton County Court

21-27 St Katherine’s Street

Northampton

NN1 2LH

 

(DATE)

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

(YOU) –v- (BANK)

Claim No: ********

 

I have today requested the issue of a County Court claim via the Moneyclaim online service, details as above.

 

Please find enclosed a schedule of the money taken from me by the defendant bank by way of charges, along with interest claimed at the annual rate of 8% pursuant to section 69 of the County Court Act. The interest in addition to the amount in charges equates to the total amount of my claim, namely £(AMOUNT).

 

I respectfully request that the enclosed schedule should be attached with the particulars of my claim.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

(YOU)

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Hi Lucy, what's the schedule and does it need to be sent with the AQ?

 

You should have entered all your charge details into one of the spreadsheets, this will be your schedule and will give a full breakdown of what you're claiming.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/182-6-interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html

 

Where exactly did you get that POC from, it does'nt exactly cover the legalities.

IF MY COMMENTS HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Don't be like the banks - give a little back

 

 

:D NAT WEST - WON - £4282.36:D

 

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Hi Westy.

 

i have just read through your thread, and i must admit i was kind of starting to loose heart and accept that maybe i was gonna be the unlucky one that ends up in court and (yet again) gets screwed byt the bank.

 

but the comments you posted in your first thread were very enpowering. and i feel almost obliged to quite franky wave my middle finger at them, but seen as i am in court on the 16th of april, il wait til i win!

 

thanks so much!

 

Jenni

Jennifer Moss:?

 

If the banks have to start charging us to have an account does that not prove that "charges " are making them a profit??

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Hi Deller,

 

I got it from Moneysavingexpert.com

 

Have you any suggestions to what i should do with it now? Should i add something to it, with my AQ? Does anyone have any suggestions, i have to leave for the court at 3pm and drop of my allocation questionaire.

 

Gosh, perhaps my claim is just buggered:confused:

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Ok, another couple of things I need clarified if anybody can help :

My first claim is for just over £2k with Nat West. I filed with MCOL, they have now filed a defence plus a CPR part 18 and there has been no AQ as yet. Am I right in thinking that

a) I dont reply to the defence until the judge orders ( if at all )

b) I send the standard letter acknowledging defence but refusing the CPR

 

"Dear Sir or Madam:

Claim No: xxxxxxx

I Acknowledge the receipt of the defence posted on behalf of National Westminster Bank plc.

I am not prepared at this stage to answer the CPR Part 18 Request. I anticipate that the claim will be allocated to the small claims track and would not then expect to have to deal with a Part 18 request since these are specifically excluded under Part 27 unless the court specifically orders me to do so of its own initiative

Furthermore I consider that the CPR part 18 request is intimidatory and I intend to bring the intimidation to the notice of the court. However, for clarity, I confirm the charges I am claiming were applied to the following account:

Account Name:

Account number:

Sort Code:

Please also find enclosed a breakdown of all charges I am claiming.

Yours Faithfully"

 

c) I then just wait for the AQ to come through to complete and send.

 

q: how can I check that the 10 points in their defence documents are standard in comparison to what everyone else generally receives?

q: Which AQ strategy is to be recommended?? I want to prepare for this and after reading lots about the new strategy am confused as to the real pro's and con's of using either one.

 

Thanks again for any help anyone can spare:o

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Hi, everyone, and welcome to my thread!;)

 

I've taken my AQ to the Court and included an amended version of what Deller posted up for Leviathan.

 

I also received an offer of £8K from Cobbetts. What a lot of money!

 

What did I do?

 

I turned it down - naturally!

 

they mentioned again the bit about the interest. they said "our client will deny that you are entitled to claim contractual interest on top of Court interest of 8%." So, I've had to reply.

 

Do you want to see it?

 

Well, do you????

 

OK, then. here it is.

 

Westy's Towers

Dorset

 

26 January 2007

 

Cobbetts LLP

Ship Canal House

King Street

Manchester

M2 4WB

 

Your ref: XXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Dear Sirs/Mesdames

 

Your client: National Westminster Bank plc

 

Thank you for your letter dated 23rd January 2007.

 

I respectfully decline your offer of settlement and request, once again, that your client return to me all charges imposed on this account, plus consequent losses and interest. The current total is £11,892 at today’s date, including £350 court costs - £250 for filing the claim and £100 for the Allocation Questionnaire. When the matter comes to Court, I shall also be claiming stationery, postage and administration costs.

 

I note that you raise the matter of interest once again. Your client may seek to deny that I am entitled to claim for interest “…on top of the Court interest rate of 8%”, as you say in your letter. Luckily, I’m not doing so: I am claiming demonstrable loss and statutory interest thereon. I am pleased that you have studied the Schedule but I have to refer you again to my Particulars of Claim, which states in 6(a) “the return of the amounts debited to the Claimant’s account in respect of charges in the sum of £6,950 (six thousand nine hundred and fifty Pounds Sterling) and any interest charged thereon, detailed in the attached Schedule and amounting to £2,734.85 (two thousand seven hundred and thirty-four Pounds and eight-five Pence) as at 27 November 2006 and accumulating at 17.95 per centum per annum (the Defendant’s current advertised ‘authorised overdraft rate’), calculated daily;” The running total is now as above.

 

Your client debited amounts in respect of charges. As I was overdrawn for most of the period in question, it has also charged me interest on them, causing me loss. Further, I was required to take out a loan (a/c no. xxxxxxxx, sort code 50-40-30) in order to pay off an overdraft – which was significantly generated by your client’s charges and the interest levied thereon. The loan was also subject to interest.

 

My demonstrable loss is, therefore, the charges themselves plus interest. I am seeking return of my demonstrable loss plus statutory interest.

 

There is another way of going about this, which you and your client may find easier to understand. It is to simply seek your client’s ‘unauthorised overdraft rate’, which is currently 29.69% compounded daily, on the charges as they were debited to my account, and put the question of statutory interest to one side. The principle for seeking this level of interest is mutuality and reciprocity – the bank charges a high level of interest for unauthorised borrowing, I am claiming that it has taken money from me in an unlawful manner. There is a strong argument for this, particularly as your client was charging me ‘unauthorised rates’ for at least part of the period in question and was unduly enriching itself for the whole of it. The total, for your information, of the charges debited to my account, with interest at your client’s current ‘unauthorised rate’ would be £750 more than demonstrable loss plus statutory rate. In light of that, you may agree with my opinion that my claim is, in fact, quite generous to your client.

 

I know that many other claimants against your client – and other banks – are claiming on the basis of mutuality and reciprocity and I have considered amending my Particulars of Claim to reflect the unauthorised, rather than authorised rate. However, I am of the view that this would simply delay matters further and I cannot be confident that your client would take it as anything other than an opportunity to drag things out. If, however, your client undertook to provide a proper defence, with explanations and evidence of costs, as requested previously, then I will be prepared to consider amending my claim appropriately.

 

If that will help, please inform me promptly. Otherwise, in the absence of settlement prior to hearing, I am happy for the Court to decide what interest, and at what rate, should be paid by your client to me.

 

I have still not, as at this date, received from your client details of transactions on my loan account, number xxxxxxxxx, sort code 50-40-30. This seems a rather cavalier disregard of the requirements of the Data Protection Act. Could I ask you once again to recommend to your client that they deliver this information to me promptly, rather than face the embarrassment of explaining to the Court why it has failed to meet its obligations under the Act, and why it should continue to be regarded as a ‘fit and proper person’ under the Act when it behaves in this manner. I have already sent your client a letter before action relating to this failure and I retain the right to commence proceedings at any time I see fit.

 

I will accept the sum of £8000 offered only as part settlement, without any conditions, and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder.

 

I enclose herewith a copy of my Allocation Questionnaire and accompanying document for your records.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Mr Natwesttookmymoney

 

Any comments?

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Nice!

 

I might borrow your paragraphs (if that's OK) on interest for our claim against GE Money (http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/55863-son-steven4064-ge-money.html) who are flatly refusing to pay any interest. We'll see about that!

 

GE Money have a slightly differeent approach to some of the other institutions you read about on this site. Rather than making a low offer, their response to the 'initial request' letter is to send a cheque for all the charges, "as a gesture of goodwill". The fight then is just about interest (at 29.9%).

  • Haha 1

 

 

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