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    • Thank-you dx, What you have written is certainly helpful to my understanding. The only thing I would say, what I found to be most worrying and led me to start this discussion is, I believe the judge did not merely admonish the defendant in the case in question, but used that point to dismiss the case in the claimants favour. To me, and I don't have your experience or knowledge, that is somewhat troubling. Again, the caveat being that we don't know exactly what went on but I think we can infer the reason for the judgement. Thank-you for your feedback. EDIT: I guess that the case I refer to is only one case and it may never happen again and the strategy not to appeal is still the best strategy even in this event, but I really did find the outcome of that case, not only extremely annoying but also worrying.
    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
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Full and final settlement - payment method


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Very dodgy stuff. Hope you know what you are doing. Personally I would never ever pay a DCA.

 

Um, I have no idea what I'm doing actually. How should I pay this then? Could I offer it to the original creditor instead and bypass the collector? It has only just been passed over.

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I read stacks of posts every day so I am sorry but I have no chance of digging out the reference for the following...

 

But I did read somewhere that if you can get a third party to pay a F&F settlement it carries more weight.

 

A cheque would be my weapon. With "Payment in Full and Final Settlement of Account XYZ" written on the back. Scanned and archived for your own records...

 

EDIT - see Brigs post #6. And apologies for the bum steer...

Edited by Bandit127
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Um, I have no idea what I'm doing actually. How should I pay this then? Could I offer it to the original creditor instead and bypass the collector? It has only just been passed over.

See my post above. And read and understand the following information.

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=24_full_and_final_settlement_offers

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Third party F&F payments are fraught with problems and have to be very carefully carried out, sending a 3rd party cheque for payment without haveing explicit agreement that the terms of the F&F have been accepted by the creditor, can lead to the money being credited to the account literally as a gift and the pursuit of the balance continues as normal.

 

UNLESS YOU HAVE THE CREDITORS EXPLICIT ACCEPTANCE OF THE OFFER IN WRITTING DO NOT SEND ANY PAYMENT, advice to do otherwise will cost deasrly.

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Third party F&F payments are fraught with problems and have to be very carefully carried out, sending a 3rd party cheque for payment without haveing explicit agreement that the terms of the F&F have been accepted by the creditor, can lead to the money being credited to the account literally as a gift and the pursuit of the balance continues as normal.

 

UNLESS YOU HAVE THE CREDITORS EXPLICIT ACCEPTANCE OF THE OFFER IN WRITTING DO NOT SEND ANY PAYMENT, advice to do otherwise will cost deasrly.

 

No, I will not be sending any payment without express written agreement. I have drafted the letter based on the National Debtline Template and will await written acceptance before anything.

 

So, if I get the written acceptance to my terms, will this be sufficient to safeguard me?

 

The outstanding amount is only £497 and I'm going to offer £250. If they really do do a dirty, at least it's not thousands.

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Never just send a cheque marked '' in full and final settlement'' agreement MUST be two way and made in wriiting acknowleding the terms of the settlement being binding on both parties, it is the sequre.

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It is not just a case of money involved. You are also resetting the SB debt and you are also acknowledging the debt. You need it in writing that it is F&F and that the account will not be passed on. You also need to know that they own the debt, many don't. It can be a minefield if you get it wrong. I'd suggest you are a long way from writing a cheque on this one. Furthermore I doubt your CRA file will improve, especially if it's marked 'partially settled' so you will be stuck with a poor CRA file. Any particular reason you want to settle it?

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It matters no who ownes the debt, as long as the acceptance of the terms of the offer are accepted i writting.

 

This why the terms must be confirmed.

 

No F & F will drastically improve rating unless all adverse date is remove.

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Thanks for your repsonses. I would like to clarify that this debt has not been recorded on my credit file at all. I want to settle it so that it never does. The settlement I will be offering is just in the hope that I can save a couple of hundred off the balance, but I am prepared to pay the full amount if I absolutely have to. My credit file matters more right now.

 

So, in essence, if they do pull a fast one it doesn't make that much difference other than I will have to pay the full balance. But, I would like to avoid it if I possibly can.

 

I've probably answered my own question in this response actually.

 

If it doesn't matter, I should just send a letter based on the National Debtline template and get their acceptance in writing, then just pay by cheque with the F&F declaration on the back.

 

If I pay by cheque, I will have to sign it though and I don't really want them to have my signature. Would bank transfer work just as well if I have the written confirmation?

Edited by pure*destiny
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What sort of debt is this there are some tyoes that don't get reported to the CRAs?

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It's a utility bill.

 

The DCA has mentioned court action, but nothing about it affecting my credit report. This is from 2006-2007.

 

Although the debt is old, I have been informed by the suppliers that I still owe this. I lived at the property during the supply dates and then moved out without telling them my address as I thought it was paid already.

 

I recently put myself on the Electoral Roll and the DCA contacted me.

Edited by pure*destiny
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Here is the email I have just recieved from the DCA:

 

---------------------

 

I write with regards to your recent communication concerning your aforementioned accounts.

 

Whilst our client is prepared to accept a settlement on this account, the minimum they require is 65% of the balance on each of the accounts listed above. We are prepared to accept £320.00 on account reference number --- and £19.00 on account reference number ---. Total one off payment for both accounts we can accept is £339.00 as full and final settlement.

 

If this is acceptable to you please send your remittance directly to this office within seven days, quoting the reference number detailed above.

 

-----------------------

 

This was sent by email. Is this acceptable or should I get them to send this by letter?

 

Also, they did not mention anything about this not affecting my credit report, which I did state as my terms of settlement. Should I clarify this also?

 

Thanks in advance.

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OK so this is not showing on CRA files, so it may be that a default was placed by the supplier and has now been removed as 6 years has elapsed.

 

If there has been no payment or written acknowledgment of the debt in 6 clear years you have no need to offer anything as the debt is statute barred and cannot be enforced.

 

Any money you do pay will just be a gift to a sly debt collector, it cannot go back on your credit filed so I am going to pm you a letter to send to the DCA.

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OK so this is not showing on CRA files, so it may be that a default was placed by the supplier and has now been removed as 6 years has elapsed.

 

If there has been no payment or written acknowledgment of the debt in 6 clear years you have no need to offer anything as the debt is statute barred and cannot be enforced.

 

Any money you do pay will just be a gift to a sly debt collector, it cannot go back on your credit filed so I am going to pm you a letter to send to the DCA.

 

Okay. Thanks. I appreciate it.

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I've just double checked my credit reports and there is no sign of this dating back to 2006. I don't think they've ever pursued this until now. Also, the supply dates were from 26/07/2006 - 03/07/2007 so the 6 years isn't up until next year.

 

If they haven't pursued this until now, can they now take action in court? Also, have I already acknowledged the debt by making an offer of settlement?

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I've just double checked my credit reports and there is no sign of this dating back to 2006. I don't think they've ever pursued this until now. Also, the supply dates were from 26/07/2006 - 03/07/2007 so the 6 years isn't up until next year.

 

If they haven't pursued this until now, can they now take action in court? Also, have I already acknowledged the debt by making an offer of settlement?

No the can't take actio in court or replace an entry on your credit files, the supply date would not matter it's the date the default was placed which must be more than 6 years ago as it's not on file back to 2006, so the date of the cause of action must be prior to the default date.

 

Send th PMd letter as is, my guess is that the ''offer'' they would accept is pure greed hoping you are unaware of the Limitations Act .

 

The letter will not start the SB clock again.

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UPDATE:

 

I have been communicating with BRIGADIER2JCS through private messaging and thankfully he has helped me to avoid a very sticky spot with this settlement.

 

In short, the settlement offer was retracted because the DCA finally disclosed that a default had already been applied to my credit report. The default is not showing on any of my reports, so it does appear that it has fallen off already. I only wanted to make a settlement to avoid a default.

 

Based on this new information, it became obvious that they were simply trying to get some money from me so that they could mark the default as settled and restart the 6 year time bomb again.

 

I have now sent them a final notice of non-acknowledgement and will seize contact.

 

I have realised from this experience that these DCA's are very sneaky and will say anything to get you to pay up. British Gas were less than helpful and I have lost complete faith in them.

 

To anyone else who is experiencing a similar problem, seek advice from those helpful advisors on this forum. Without their assistance, I would have inadvertently started another 6 year clock by just trying to do the right thing. Go figure. :)

 

Just to sum it off. I recieved news today that my CCJ has been removed - a week early at that. I also managed to upgrade my basic account with Lloyds to a FULL current account. Things are looking up and I owe much of it to everyone on here. So thanks to all of you.

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Now you know, and so does everyone else, that F&F settlements can be a minefield. Even more so if a DCA is involved.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

You think you are doing the right thing by taking responsibility, but really you are shooting yourself in the foot - and the head.

 

I can't believe how close I got to messing everything up. Thanks Brig...

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