Euro Situation Explained.

[SOD'EM]

For anybody who doesn’t fully understand the Euro situation ,

 

 

it is explained very simply in the picture below...

 

 

 

 

 

 

and the following info.

 

 

Pythagoras's theorem - 24 words.

 

 

Lord's Prayer - 66 words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Archimedes' Principle - 67 words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

10 Commandments - 179 words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

US Declaration of Independence - 1,300 words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

US Constitution with all 27 Amendments - 7,818 words.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EU regulations on the sale of cabbage - 26,911 words

[san_d]

I see a British flag. What has Britain got to do with Euro?

[Fred Bassett]

I was wondering about that. I think we should be at the bottom with a shovel - clearing up the mess that the idiots who dreamed up this hair brained scheme have created. We're paying for it even if though we chose not to be a part of this madness. If the unelected and undemocratic Europeans get their way, we will end up paying even more too.

[SOD'EM]

I don't think it's about the currency (even though I have put 'Euro' in the title).

I think it's more about the European Union, and they still have a large say in what happens here.

 

I was just passing on something I recieved.....Please don't shoot the messenger.

[Fred Bassett]

I don't think it's about the currency (even though I have put 'Euro' in the title).

I think it's more about the European Union, and they still have a large say in what happens here.

 

I was just passing on something I recieved.....Please don't shoot the messenger.

 

Don't worry, I won't. If I could shoot anybody it would be the [edit]hole politicians who refuse to give us a vote on this matter because they know we will vote to leave this corrupt union.

[aiden.gal]

Hm not a very accurate picture. Of course Germany, France etc have profited from the Euro but Greece for instance doesn't even have a Cadastral Office and pays pensions to long dead retired people. They just need to reform some systems in the countries going bankrupt.

[Fred Bassett]

Hm not a very accurate picture. Of course Germany, France etc have profited from the Euro but Greece for instance doesn't even have a Cadastral Office and pays pensions to long dead retired people. They just need to reform some systems in the countries going bankrupt.

 

Is that it then? We just have to stop paying for dead Greeks and it will all be OK?

[aiden.gal]

There was a very unconventional, but interesting article in the ny times by the way, i can't seem to post the link, just go to their website and search for "germay, to save the euro leave it"

[Fred Bassett]

Whoops.

[san_d]

I think this thread follows up on the very British tradition of blaming all to the foreigners. Can anybody give a look at this:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

and compare UK external debt/GDP ratio with the one of Greece? See, Britain is way more bankrupt than Greece.

[Fred Bassett]

I think this thread follows up on the very British tradition of blaming all to the foreigners. Can anybody give a look at this:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

and compare UK external debt/GDP ratio with the one of Greece? See, Britain is way more bankrupt than Greece.

 

Then why is our money being used to bail Greece out?

[san_d]

Then why is our money being used to bail Greece out?

 

For starters the money is not 'ours', because Britain is bankrupt and the BoE have printed money out of thin air. So in this case we are talking of 'virtual' money bailing out a 'virtual debt' made of toxic CDO's and CDS. The bulk of the real money to pay for Greece bailout comes from the Germans taxpayers and they are not very happy.

 

Let me point out another thing: Britain has benefited from the Euro crisis as due to the austerity measures in Greece, Italy, Spain and Ireland, more dirty money has been deposited in UK or spent on properties. Have you given a look at the top range of property market in London? It's in a bubble. Rich Greeks and Italians have moved money out their countries to buy already overpriced houses. Please don't fall into that simplistic Daily Mail analysis.

[Fred Bassett]

For starters the money is not 'ours', because Britain is bankrupt and the BoE have printed money out of thin air. So in this case we are talking of 'virtual' money bailing out a 'virtual debt' made of toxic CDO's and CDS. The bulk of the real money to pay for Greece bailout comes from the Germans taxpayers and they are not very happy.

 

Let me point out another thing: Britain has benefited from the Euro crisis as due to the austerity measures in Greece, Italy, Spain and Ireland, more dirty money has been deposited in UK or spent on properties. Have you given a look at the top range of property market in London? It's in a bubble. Rich Greeks and Italians have moved money out their countries to buy already overpriced houses. Please don't fall into that simplistic Daily Mail analysis.

 

OK, I'll stick the, so much cleverer, Guardian analysis. The fact remains that we are helping to bail out Greece though. It is also a fact that we would be better off leaving the EU altogether.

[debt4get]

OK, I'll stick the, so much cleverer, Guardian analysis. The fact remains that we are helping to bail out Greece though. It is also a fact that we would be better off leaving the EU altogether.

we spent the best part of 30 years trying to get into the eu, when the going gets tough, despite huge amounts of money invested in uk by europe, there are calls for us to get out.

we could leave, but where we would trade as easily as being in europe I dont know. there are lots of things wrong with the eu model but sticking our heads up our ar*e and running for cover is not the answer

[Fred Bassett]

we spent the best part of 30 years trying to get into the eu, when the going gets tough, despite huge amounts of money invested in uk by europe, there are calls for us to get out.

we could leave, but where we would trade as easily as being in europe I dont know. there are lots of things wrong with the eu model but sticking our heads up our ar*e and running for cover is not the answer

 

We spent the best part of 30 years trying to get into the common market, not into a federal superstate. Also, we put a lot more in than we take out. Europe has not invested huge amounts of money in the UK, it is actually the other way around, so rather than us running for cover, I think it would be more of a case of refusing to put any more good money after bad. What evidence is there to suggest that we would no longer trade with the EU if we left?

[san_d]

There's no such a thing as an old-style common market any more, after the Maastricht treaty you're either in or out of the EU, unless you build a Tier1 with Euro+ full fledged political union and tier2 EU without Euro and old style EEC, which is technically possible. There remains to be seen if and when Germany would agree to this scenario.

[Fred Bassett]

There's no such a thing as an old-style common market any more, after the Maastricht treaty you're either in or out of the EU, unless you build a Tier1 with Euro+ full fledged political union and tier2 EU without Euro and old style EEC, which is technically possible. There remains to be seen if and when Germany would agree to this scenario.

 

We should have been given a referendum on the Maastricht treaty and the EU constitution and weren't. Thatcher failed us on Maastricht and Brown and Blair blatantly lied to us on the EU Constitution, having promised a referendum on it. The majority of people in this country want out of this undemocratic organisation but the Politicians lie and cheat at every turn because "they know better".

[debt4get]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8359160.stm

a few reasons for leaving and consequences for leaving...

[debt4get]

just for you fred

 

• Foreign direct investment, and the presence of foreign owned firms, have had a beneficial effect on the UK's national income and constitute a crucial part of the UK's economic success, and high levels of foreign investment could be threatened by British withdrawal from free access to EU markets. Estimates suggest that trade with EU countries now accounts for over 60 per cent of UK's trade (compared to 16 per cent for the United States), and 3.2 million jobs, or 12 per cent of the entire UK economy, are directly associated with exports of goods and services to the EU. Any withdrawal could have negative impact on these positions.
  

 

• The economic consequences could also mean a more disruptive split over trade with EU countries, including a possible impact on availability and prices of EU products.
  

 

• The practical and legal complexities of withdrawal would be daunting and could take several years. Many UK companies now have partnerships with EU companies, or own European companies or have contracts with such companies. EU structures aid these relationships. Untying all this would be a field day for lawyers but costly for those paying the bill. Investors could lose out if firms in what remained of the EU decide to stick with EU trading partners, depriving UK companies of valuable contracts.
  

 

• Fear of the unknown - however "bloated the bureaucracy" or "crazy the community", investors hate change and even more uncertainty.
  

 

• Rise of China, India and maybe Brazil/Latin America as economic powerhouses needs the counterbalance of a strong united Europe. Again, the investment take is that the EU trading and negotiating block carries more clout than the UK alone. And would the rest of the EU put up with the UK, a major economy, riding on its coat tails - even if this works for Norway, a far smaller economy and one largely dependent on gas and other natural resources?
  

 

• An isolated UK would be less attractive to inward investment because those looking to take a stake would not get access (or as much access) to the wider European market.
  

 

• The UK would be an afterthought - and no longer able to influence matters in Europe. It would also be excluded from foreign policy decisions on matters such as security, dealing with Russia and extension of the EU to the east - primarily the question of Turkish accession which the UK supports. Investors in emerging markets need to assess these factors.
  

 

• Leaving the EU would jolt markets in a negative direction. International investors would take fright at the unknowns involved.
  

[san_d]

I guess the man on the street is too simple to understand complicated economic theories. They want to see things in black and white: in or out, let them all in or kick them all out, and so on.

 

The reality is that we live in a globalised world based on fiat currencies and run by the IMF, Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank and being in or out of any political or monetary union makes little difference.

[Fred Bassett]

just for you fred

 

• Foreign direct investment, and the presence of foreign owned firms, have had a beneficial effect on the UK's national income and constitute a crucial part of the UK's economic success, and high levels of foreign investment could be threatened by British withdrawal from free access to EU markets. Estimates suggest that trade with EU countries now accounts for over 60 per cent of UK's trade (compared to 16 per cent for the United States), and 3.2 million jobs, or 12 per cent of the entire UK economy, are directly associated with exports of goods and services to the EU. Any withdrawal could have negative impact on these positions.
  

 

• The economic consequences could also mean a more disruptive split over trade with EU countries, including a possible impact on availability and prices of EU products.
  

 

• The practical and legal complexities of withdrawal would be daunting and could take several years. Many UK companies now have partnerships with EU companies, or own European companies or have contracts with such companies. EU structures aid these relationships. Untying all this would be a field day for lawyers but costly for those paying the bill. Investors could lose out if firms in what remained of the EU decide to stick with EU trading partners, depriving UK companies of valuable contracts.
  

 

• Fear of the unknown - however "bloated the bureaucracy" or "crazy the community", investors hate change and even more uncertainty.
  

 

• Rise of China, India and maybe Brazil/Latin America as economic powerhouses needs the counterbalance of a strong united Europe. Again, the investment take is that the EU trading and negotiating block carries more clout than the UK alone. And would the rest of the EU put up with the UK, a major economy, riding on its coat tails - even if this works for Norway, a far smaller economy and one largely dependent on gas and other natural resources?
  

 

• An isolated UK would be less attractive to inward investment because those looking to take a stake would not get access (or as much access) to the wider European market.
  

 

• The UK would be an afterthought - and no longer able to influence matters in Europe. It would also be excluded from foreign policy decisions on matters such as security, dealing with Russia and extension of the EU to the east - primarily the question of Turkish accession which the UK supports. Investors in emerging markets need to assess these factors.
  

 

• Leaving the EU would jolt markets in a negative direction. International investors would take fright at the unknowns involved.
  

 

That's one view and it contains lots of "coulds", "mights" and "maybes". Here's an alternative view: "http://www.mindfulmoney.co.uk/8093/economic-impact/what-are-the-economic-benefits-of-the-uk-leaving-the-eu.html". The truth is, nobody really knows, but if I was given the chance I would vote to get out.

[debt4get]

its the magically, 'my life will be so much better if'' they kick out the immigrants, they stop benefit scroungers, single mothers, council housing for working people earning over a certain amount...etc etc...what they fail to understand is their life would be little to no different, they would still get shafted all ends by those holding the reins of power no matter which political persuasion

[Fred Bassett]

its the magically, 'my life will be so much better if'' they kick out the immigrants, they stop benefit scroungers, single mothers, council housing for working people earning over a certain amount...etc etc...what they fail to understand is their life would be little to no different, they would still get shafted all ends by those holding the reins of power no matter which political persuasion

 

You might well be right, but at least we'd be able to kick out the people who make most of the laws we are governed by. We can't at the moment.

[debt4get]

i still remain unconvinced that my life would be any better outside the eu than in it....isolationism in a global society? countries are always stronger with alliances than without