First Capital Notice of Summons: False name and address

[Kane_]

Hello to all here

 

I've been trawling the threads and posts on here and though my situation is very similar to some of them, I haven't found one that is exactly the same. Thanks in advance for reading this and I'll try to keep it brief and to the point:

 

I have already received and responded to the initial letter to 'state' my case. That being that I tapped in with a Pay as you Go oyster card at my station, Alexandra Palace, that had no money on it. I didn't realise this as I was running for my train in rush hour. When I got to my interchange at Finsbury park and saw ticket inspectors, I tapped in at the interchange just fine and was pulled aside by an inspector.

 

When he read my card he saw it hadn't been validated for my journey to Alexandra Palace and that my season ticket had expired the day before. While searching my bag for ID I realised I had my second oyster in there (I carry two incase one is stolen or lost) and gave that to the inspector. This was the one I had used to tap in at Alexandra Palace and it had insufficient funds. When the inspector told me facts were facts, I accepted that I was going to have to pay a whopper fine but didn't put up much of a fight (I've never seen that work).

 

When I wrote my details, I put my name and address and as the inspector was calling it in, I told him I'd put one of the digits to my house incorrectly and accidentally and he pulled the pad away from me and told me I was falisifying information. When he attempted to call in the correct address, he said he didn't have my name registered. I had to show him an e-mail sent by Foxtons to prove my address but I didn't have ID on me as my only ID is my passport and I don't really like taking it with me regularly unless I must for something formal.

 

The charge for my offence is 'Giving a false name and address.'

 

On the false name: I gave the name that I am commonly called Kane, which sits in my passport but is only ONE of my official names. I have three in total and that is not the first one. The reason I gave it is... well, that's the most common name for me to write.

 

On the address: Every detail of my address is correct including road name and postal code, but I didn't intend to write one number of my three digit house number incorrectly. I even offered to correct the error. The inspector argued with me that I should know it, and that I live there so obviously I'm lying, but I countered that I still don't know my mobile number well, nor any of my families, or even my work and it was simply because I was in a rush to get to work (Also, while I was writing my address I wrote and corrected my postal code because I'd made an error, so it wasn't the only one I'd made but it was the one I didn't catch.)

 

I am currently writing a letter in response to them to 'state my case' but I wonder if this will affect me very negatively even though I dispute the claim that my name is false?

 

Any help or nuggets of information would be kindly appreciated.

 

And if you've read this far, thanks again.

 

 

K

[Stigy]

What exactly are you going to tell them? There's nothing wrong with informing them of a genuine mistake, as long as you are sincere and don't come across as being arrogant. If it's a number that is easy to get wrong, such as leaving one digit off a three digit number (I do this sometimes.....don't know why, I do it with certain words, too!), then that's arguably an easier genuine mistake, than writing 67 instead of 41, surely?

 

Might be a different story trying to tell them about how many different names and aliases you have, mind you!

[Kane_]

Haha, I'm afraid I had no control over my parents loading me with names. They are all official and I've never altered them.

 

The number was I wrote ended in 67 as opposed to the correct 66. I did inform the inspector then and there when I was looking at the notepad as he read it and I'd stopped freaking out that I would be late for work and loose my connection.

 

I've already stated the above (though I have paraphrased) and received a letter with intent to issue a summons. The letter I would write in response is a briefer summation, an apology for the offence and a plea to consider a different course of action that is perhaps administrative. This is the first time in over a year and a half of me living in the UK, that I have not had a valid ticket.

[Kane_]

Also, just another question if I may: In the letter I am drafting to the prosecutions department, should I in fact restate what happened with regards to the charges, or simply write and apology and a plea for administration or fine?

 

Thank you again

[Kane_]

Hello again to everyone,

 

Following on from my original situation: I sent a secondary letter of apology and a plea to perhaps settle administratively so as to avoid the possibility of a criminal record. That was now three weeks ago and I still have heard nothing back either positively or negatively from First Capital.

 

Is anyone aware of the normal response time in such a case?

 

Thank you to anyone who has any answers.

[firstclassx]

Did you send it by recorded delivery, so that you can see whether they received it?

 

Personally, assuming they received it, I don't think it's made any difference. You might get a summons.

 

I would recommend getting a £150 postal order/cheque popped in the post ASAP to them. Write a brief cover note explaining that you are very sorry about the situation, and to cover their administrative costs, you enclose £150 in full and final settlement to close the matter.

 

If they cash it, then happy days, if not, well, you've done everything you can...

[Kane_]

Thank you for the prompt response firsclassx.

 

I'm happy to do as you've advised but I'm curious if that would hurt my case should it be that it goes to court, or will it simply be incorporated into any further costs that would be incurred should the matter be taken further?

 

Any ideas?

[firstclassx]

Thank you for the prompt response firsclassx.

 

I'm happy to do as you've advised but I'm curious if that would hurt my case should it be that it goes to court, or will it simply be incorporated into any further costs that would be incurred should the matter be taken further?

 

Any ideas?

 

If they don't accept the money and terminate the court proceedings then I don't believe it will harm your case in court, if anything it shows you tried to mitigate your actions.

 

If they accept the money, that should be the end of the matter. FCC should cancel the court proceedings. If you don't think £150 is enough, obviously pay whatever you think is reasonable to avoid court.

 

i.e. They won't accept your money and then take you to court anyway...

 

If you get found guilty, you will be ordered to pay costs + fine, probably around the £500 mark, if you plead guilty.

[Kane_]

Thanks firstclassx, I'll look into getting that organized in the morning.

[MrBurns]

When I wrote my details, I put my name and address and as the inspector was calling it in, I told him I'd put one of the digits to my house incorrectly and accidentally and he pulled the pad away from me and told me I was falisifying information. When he attempted to call in the correct address, he said he didn't have my name registered. I had to show him an e-mail sent by Foxtons to prove my address but I didn't have ID on me as my only ID is my passport and I don't really like taking it with me regularly unless I must for something formal.

 

The charge for my offence is 'Giving a false name and address.'

 

On the false name: I gave the name that I am commonly called Kane, which sits in my passport but is only ONE of my official names. I have three in total and that is not the first one. The reason I gave it is... well, that's the most common name for me to write.

 

On the address: Every detail of my address is correct including road name and postal code, but I didn't intend to write one number of my three digit house number incorrectly. I even offered to correct the error. The inspector argued with me that I should know it, and that I live there so obviously I'm lying, but I countered that I still don't know my mobile number well, nor any of my families, or even my work and it was simply because I was in a rush to get to work (Also, while I was writing my address I wrote and corrected my postal code because I'd made an error, so it wasn't the only one I'd made but it was the one I didn't catch.)

 

So they claim that you gave your details just incorrectly enough for you to have committed an offence, but just correctly enough that they could send you letters and prosecute you?

 

If that's all you're charged with, I'd give them the two-finger salute.

[Stigy]

So they claim that you gave your details just incorrectly enough for you to have committed an offence, but just correctly enough that they could send you letters and prosecute you?

 

If that's all you're charged with, I'd give them the two-finger salute.

Unfortunately, advice like this, although in your mind might come across as useful, shouldn't be demonstrated in-front of Magistrates, I'm sure you'll agree?....

 

I see what you're saying though, in that in the circumstances, you could genuinely make such mistakes, and this surely makes for a good defence?

[MrBurns]

Unfortunately, advice like this, although in your mind might come across as useful, shouldn't be demonstrated in-front of Magistrates, I'm sure you'll agree?....

 

I see what you're saying though, in that in the circumstances, you could genuinely make such mistakes, and this surely makes for a good defence?

 

I never said to do so in a magistrate's court. It's the train company I'd give the metaphorical salute to - I wouldn't expect it to get to court.

 

But yes, you got the gist of my point. OP gave his name and he tried to give his address. His nervousness prevented him from getting it right immediately on paper but clearly the inspector person managed to get his correct address before they parted ways, otherwise they wouldn't be communicating with him now. Accordingly he can't have committed the offence of giving a false name and address. QED.

[Old-CodJA]

I never said to do so in a magistrate's court. It's the train company I'd give the metaphorical salute to - I wouldn't expect it to get to court.

 

But yes, you got the gist of my point. OP gave his name and he tried to give his address. His nervousness prevented him from getting it right immediately on paper but clearly the inspector person managed to get his correct address before they parted ways, otherwise they wouldn't be communicating with him now. Accordingly he can't have committed the offence of giving a false name and address. QED.

 

 

The general point debated in relation to your post is correct in this instance, but it is not correct to say that someone who gives false details and then corrects them before the inspector finishes questioning cannot be charged with that offence.

 

If a traveller gives any false details in relation to name & address when questioned, s/he may be charged with that offence.

 

The obligation is to give the correct name and address at the first time of asking and it can be shown that a failure to do so underpins the allegation of intent to avoid a fare.

 

As a part of the training courses for RPIs, I wrote that having identified false details given by the traveller who has no valid ticket, the next question the inspector should ask is "Do you agree that if I had not questioned you further with regard to the false details that you gave me, you would have avoided correspondence from the rail company concerning this matter?"

 

The inspector must identify whether s/he thinks that the 'false' information was a wilful attempt to deceive, or an error borne of nervousness