An ongoing saga.

[jimfishybob]

The letter below pretty much explains the situation up to press and will be posted tomorrow.

 

Will keep you updated.

 

 

Dear xxx,

 

On the 21st August 2006 I wrote to you requesting certain documents under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Thank you for your reply dated 5th September 2006.

 

 

As stipulated in my reply to your letter, (dated 8th September 2006), you have failed to provide any of the documents requested.

 

 

Further, the 'Account Sale Agreement' you provided contains no reference to any account or in any way relates to me personally. Merely, it is a woefully incomplete, (3 pages of a 22 page document), set of terms and conditions relating to a contract of non-specific nature, between yourselves and Citifinancial Europe. Consequently this does not constitute a deed of assignment nor proof that you are now the legal owners of any agreement which may have existed.

 

 

As you are no doubt aware, the Consumer Credit Act 1974, (section 78, in conjunction with The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983), states that these documents must be supplied within 12 working days and failure to do so would constitute a default on the part of the supplier. It goes on to say that if the default continues for a calender month then an offence has been committed.

 

 

Since my request dated 21st August 2006 you have failed to supply me with:-

 

 

1. A copy of the executed agreement and any document referred to therein.

   
   

2. A statement of account.

   
   

3. A deed of assignment showing your authority to pursue any agreement if such an agreement exists.

   
   

4. A copy of the default notice purported, by you, (in your letter dated 9th June 2006), to have been sent by Citifinancial Europe but never received.

   
   

5. A copy of my written consent for you to process my data or a copy of the notice whereby I gave my consent for Citifinancial Europe to transfer their obligations of data

   
   protection. (it is noted you claim consent is contained within paragraph 12 of Citifinancials' terms and conditions. I refute this for the reasons stated in my letter dated 8th September 2006. Further to this, even if paragraph 12 did contain such consent, you have failed to show where I agreed to this term)

   
   

 

Contained in my original request was a notice pursuant to Section 10(1) and Section 12(1) of The Data Protection Act 1998 that you cease to process any of my data and remove all data in which I can be personally identified from your automated processes.

 

 

Section 10(3) and Section 12(3) of The Data Protection Act 1998 require that you respond to such a notice within 21 days, either:

 

 

(a)stating that you have complied or intend to comply with the data subject notice or

 

 

b)stating your reasons for regarding the data subject notice as to any extent justified and the extent, (if any), to which you have complied or intend to comply.

 

 

Please note, the letter dated 21st August 2006 containing this notice was deemed served on the 24th August 2006, although in actual fact it was received by your office on the 23nd August 2006. Consequently, the deadline for a response expired on 13th September 2006.

 

 

To summarise I believe you have committed an offence by breaching the following:-

 

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 78 (Duty to give information to a debtor under a running account credit agreement)

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 174 (Restrictions on disclosure of information)

 

 

The Data Protection Act 1998 Section 10 (Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress)

 

 

The Data Protection Act 1998 Section 12 (Rights in relation to automatic decision taking)

 

 

I am sure you are aware each of the above breaches is punishable by summary conviction.

 

 

I am now of the opinion that you are unfit to hold a Consumer Credit Licence as determined by the fitness test outlined in the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (section 25 (b)).

 

 

I now require that you remove any reference to this agreement from my credit file and immediate cessation of the processing of my data to any third parties as this data is unsubstantiated. You have failed to show I gave consent to this processing or that there is a legitimate interest as per the first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998. I also require a statement of account to ascertain any monies owed. There will be no further payments made to this account.

 

 

If you do not respond or do not respond positively within the next 7 days I will have no option but to report your breaches to the relevant statutory authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards, The Office of Fair Trading, The Information Commissioners Office, The Financial Ombudsman and The Financial Services Authority. Further, I will initiate a claim through the courts to force disclosure of these documents and recompense for my time, distress and legal advice.

 

 

 

 

I trust I have made myself clear on this matter and that you appreciate the irony in me being required to explain the legal position in which a company trading as 'Direct Legal Collections' has positioned itself.

 

 

Should you be in any doubt as to your legal obligations may I recommend consultation with your legal counsel.

 

Yours Sincerely

[KeefG]

If i pay you, will you write any future letters i need to send to people?

 

That is class!

[jimfishybob]

Lol.

 

Thanks.

 

I may be verbose but my legal knowledge was sorely lacking until I came on here. I learnt everything I know from this site. Long may it continue.

[KeefG]

I'm hoping to be in the same position as you before long in that i'll know what im talking about and know where i stand.

 

I'm in a mess at the moment and need to get stuff sorted!

[NailPost]

The letter would be great setting out particulars of claim for a court action but is far too long to be sent to a debt collector of dubious reading and comprehension abilities.

 

I would cut it back drastically so as to be short and to the point - you have failed to provide me with the requested details as required by law, remove the default and p*** off.

[jimfishybob]

I disagree.

 

I'm actively trying to avoid court if at all possible, I am not relishing the challenge as some people on here seem to do, I merely want to sort the situation out.

 

My hope is that by informing the DCA of all salient points, I can avoid having to take further action, though I am quite prepared to do so if neccessary.

[NailPost]

I realise you are trying to avoid court - so is the debt collecting scumbags, the last thing they want is a judge poking his/her nose into their business and not liking what he finds - but to write them a letter which, by my reckoning is three pages long, will not be read by these baboons and simply be ignored.

 

This is just my advice but believe me a short, brief note is far better than a lengthy multi-page letter.

[jimfishybob]

So my options are:-

 

Send a lengthy letter have them ignore it and go to court,

 

or

 

Send a brief letter, they think I don't know what i'm on about, ignore it and I go to court.

 

What a crappy state of affairs.

[jannercobbler]

The letter below pretty much explains the situation up to press and will be posted tomorrow.

 

Will keep you updated.

 

 

Dear xxx,

 

On the 21st August 2006 I wrote to you requesting certain documents under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Thank you for your reply dated 5th September 2006.

 

 

As stipulated in my reply to your letter, (dated 8th September 2006), you have failed to provide any of the documents requested.

 

 

Further, the 'Account Sale Agreement' you provided contains no reference to any account or in any way relates to me personally. Merely, it is a woefully incomplete, (3 pages of a 22 page document), set of terms and conditions relating to a contract of non-specific nature, between yourselves and Citifinancial Europe. Consequently this does not constitute a deed of assignment nor proof that you are now the legal owners of any agreement which may have existed.

 

 

As you are no doubt aware, the Consumer Credit Act 1974, (section 78, in conjunction with The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983), states that these documents must be supplied within 12 working days and failure to do so would constitute a default on the part of the supplier. It goes on to say that if the default continues for a calender month then an offence has been committed.

 

 

Since my request dated 21st August 2006 you have failed to supply me with:-

 

 

1. A copy of the executed agreement and any document referred to therein.

   
   

2. A statement of account.

   
   

3. A deed of assignment showing your authority to pursue any agreement if such an agreement exists.

   
   

4. A copy of the default notice purported, by you, (in your letter dated 9th June 2006), to have been sent by Citifinancial Europe but never received.

   
   

5. A copy of my written consent for you to process my data or a copy of the notice whereby I gave my consent for Citifinancial Europe to transfer their obligations of data

   
   protection. (it is noted you claim consent is contained within paragraph 12 of Citifinancials' terms and conditions. I refute this for the reasons stated in my letter dated 8th September 2006. Further to this, even if paragraph 12 did contain such consent, you have failed to show where I agreed to this term)

   
   

 

Contained in my original request was a notice pursuant to Section 10(1) and Section 12(1) of The Data Protection Act 1998 that you cease to process any of my data and remove all data in which I can be personally identified from your automated processes.

 

 

Section 10(3) and Section 12(3) of The Data Protection Act 1998 require that you respond to such a notice within 21 days, either:

 

 

(a)stating that you have complied or intend to comply with the data subject notice or

 

 

b)stating your reasons for regarding the data subject notice as to any extent justified and the extent, (if any), to which you have complied or intend to comply.

 

 

Please note, the letter dated 21st August 2006 containing this notice was deemed served on the 24th August 2006, although in actual fact it was received by your office on the 23nd August 2006. Consequently, the deadline for a response expired on 13th September 2006.

 

 

To summarise I believe you have committed an offence by breaching the following:-

 

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 78 (Duty to give information to a debtor under a running account credit agreement)

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 174 (Restrictions on disclosure of information)

 

 

The Data Protection Act 1998 Section 10 (Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress)

 

 

The Data Protection Act 1998 Section 12 (Rights in relation to automatic decision taking)

 

 

I am sure you are aware each of the above breaches is punishable by summary conviction.

 

 

I am now of the opinion that you are unfit to hold a Consumer Credit Licence as determined by the fitness test outlined in the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (section 25 (b)).

 

 

I now require that you remove any reference to this agreement from my credit file and immediate cessation of the processing of my data to any third parties as this data is unsubstantiated. You have failed to show I gave consent to this processing or that there is a legitimate interest as per the first and sixth principles of The Data Protection Act 1998. I also require a statement of account to ascertain any monies owed. There will be no further payments made to this account.

 

 

If you do not respond or do not respond positively within the next 7 days I will have no option but to report your breaches to the relevant statutory authorities, including but not limited to Trading Standards, The Office of Fair Trading, The Information Commissioners Office, The Financial Ombudsman and The Financial Services Authority. Further, I will initiate a claim through the courts to force disclosure of these documents and recompense for my time, distress and legal advice.

 

 

 

 

I trust I have made myself clear on this matter and that you appreciate the irony in me being required to explain the legal position in which a company trading as 'Direct Legal Collections' has positioned itself.

 

 

Should you be in any doubt as to your legal obligations may I recommend consultation with your legal counsel.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

Minor typo Change 23nd August 2006 to 23rd August 2006

[jimfishybob]

Thanks Janner, had already done this.

[jimfishybob]

Looks like you may have been right Nailpost...

 

...still no word...

 

...tick tock, tick tock....

[Turnaround]

Hi jimfishybob

 

I have been following this thread with interest and do not wish to high jack it.

 

Could you please explain the order, if any, of the different requests ie CCA, SAR, section 10 + 12 of the DPA or a for the to process your data should be served.

 

As money is pretty tight this end, could you explain the need to invest £10.00 in the SAR or can you ask for the copy of your permision to precess your data and still serve the Section 10 + 12 free of charge?

 

I think I can understand the need for a DPA (SAR), and that is to get to see what data they hold. But can you still serve the Section 10 + 12 without the need for SAR.

 

I hope you understand my question.

 

Thank you in advance

 

Regards......Turnaround

[jimfishybob]

It depends on what you are trying to acheive?

[Turnaround]

Basicaly, the alleged debt is unenforcable because they cant provide a copy of the original agreement as per CCA request.

 

I have descovered a default on my CRF from them, as they cant provide the copy of the original agreement, then in my view I haven't given them permision to process my data and wish they remove the default and stop processing my data.

 

Can I request this without the need for DSAR plus £10.00 and just serve the Section 10+12 with out a fee.

 

Regards.....Turnaround

[jimfishybob]

In broad terms:

 

A S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) merely requests that a company send you all information they hold on you. If you already know this information then there is little point in requesting it. Consquently Sections 10 + 12 can still be served regardless of an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request).

 

However, the CCA also includes provisions relating to the disclosure of data. In this respect it can be better to fight it on that front, as the likelihood is they will respond to section 10 + 12 within 21 days saying that your request is unjustified,(the inclusion of the Data Protection Act in my case is really just an aside to strengthen my position as they didn't respond at all).

 

Therefore, submit a request under the CCA, if the agreement fails to show then not only have they breached section 77 or 78 they have also failed to show where they had consent to disclose your data to third parties as per section 174, (if there is no agreement how can there be permission?).

[Turnaround]

Thank you so much for explaining that.

 

I'm sure other readers, as well will benifit from that......

 

I can understand the frustrating dilema between long and short letters, do you point out their statutary responsibilities or should they know them. In most cases i would go for the latter and let them trip up. But its a personal call if you would prefer not to go to court but are willing to do so.

Best Regards

 

Turnaround

[jimfishybob]

Recieved a letter today:-

 

 

(i'm paraphrasing)

 

Sorry we've not got back to you.

 

I acknowledge your request

 

...but i'm on holiday till the 30th, i'll deal with it then

 

Er...No.

 

You acknowledged it when you sent me a letter saying you'd try to get hold of it back on September 5th.

 

Pressing on.....

[jimfishybob]

Emails gone to TS,the FSA and Information Commissioners Office today with copies of letters attatched.

 

Wait and see, eh?

 

(as a side note, the online complaints procedure for the Information Commissioners Office is a freakin' nightmare!)

[jimfishybob]

Had a call today from TS.

 

But I wasn't in,

 

Will call them tomorrow and keep updating.

[jimfishybob]

Ok.

 

TS have asked me to sign some forms and submit this to an investigation currently being conducted by the OFT on DLC.

 

Curiouser and curiouser......

[jimfishybob]

Have been emailed this by Trading Standards.

 

 

 

PERMISSION TO DISCLOSE ENCLOSURE

 

 

 

CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

LICENSEE: HILLESDEN SECURITIES LTD T/A DIRECT LEGAL & COLLECTIONS

LICENCE NO: 100058

 

Please sign and date your preferred option:

 

Option A

 

I give my consent for the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) to disclose details of my complaint concerning the above trader, including my name and address details, in any further action that it may take under the Act or under any other legislation administered by the OFT.

 

I also give my consent to the OFT to use the information provided by me in the performance of any of its functions and to disclose that information to others where legally permissible. For example, the OFT may disclose such information in connection with enforcement of regulatory action under its own powers or may refer the information to another government department or enforcement authority.

 

 

Signed: ……………………………………………………………………..

 

Print name: ……………………………………………………………………..

 

Date: ………………………………………………………………………

 

 

Option B

 

I do not give my permission for the OFT to disclose details of my complaint concerning the above trader, including my name and address details, in any further action that it may take under the Act or for any other purpose as outlined above.

 

 

Signed: ……………………………………………………………………..

 

Print name: ……………………………………………………………………..

 

Date: ……………………………………………………………………..

 

Please note the OFT can only use your details in any action we may take against the above trader if you give your written permission for us to do so.

 

 

Definitely sounds like somehting is afoot...

[jimfishybob]

In response to a letter I sent informing that their time, (and then some), was up:-

 

 

I am in receipt of the letter signed on behalf of A E Locke, dated 16th October 2006.

 

 

You are reminded that acknowledgement of my request was made in your letter dated 5th September 2006. A further acknowledgement, some six weeks later is an unnecessary delaying tactic on the behalf of Direct Legal & Collections.

 

 

The request for more time as your data controller is away on holiday is, frankly, ludicrous. Your company has repeatedly ignored my requests under statute since 21st August 2006. Were there any intention of complying with my request Mr./Ms. Locke had ample time in the eight weeks prior.

 

 

Further, I am aware that you have sent identical letters requesting more time to several other correspondents, suggesting that, rather than my case being an isolated over-sight, these flagrant breaches of statute are standard practice for Direct Legal & Collections.

 

 

Under the circumstances and to prevent unnecessary cost to either party, I am prepared to delay legal action until 6th November 2006. However, I have today submitted a complaint to your local Trading Standards, The Financial Ombudsman and The Information Commisioner..

 

 

Please be aware, this is my final correspondence on the matter. If you do not respond or do not respond positively before 6th November 2006, I will commence legal action without further notice.

 

I recieved this today:-

 

The red is obviously mine.

 

Thank you for your letter dated 23rd October 2006. in response to our letter dated 16th October 2006.

I would confirm and advise the following:-

 

1. I acknowledge the £1 payment in connection with your data requests. (for the third time).

 

2. We have requested copies of the paperwork required in your letter dated 7th October 2006, (you said this on the 5th September) and are still awaiting a copy of your original agreement with Citifinancial, together with statement of account(nice grammar). When these are available they will be forwarded to you.

 

3.If we are unable to forward a copy of the original agreement, we will be able to supply a true copy of the document which will comply with section 78 of the CCA. (No it won't)

 

4.A copy of the key pages of the sale document will be forwarded to you shortly.(Then why did you omit them in the first place? Not trying to decieve me are you?)

 

5.In view of the current dispute, and our inability to supply a copy of the document at this time, we have informed the CRA's to suppress our entry pending resolution. (Whatever that means)

 

Should you require anything further at this point please contact me accordingly. I will update you on developments in 21 days if there are no developments beforehand. (I can promise you, there will be developments beforehand).

 

Yours sincerely

Data Controller, (Thought you were on your hols)

 

 

 

This is a fairly standard letter from them apparently, though it usually appears much earlier in the process. I'm actually quite glad i've recieved it as it strengthens my case somewhat.

 

STILL no mention of the Data Protection Act notices.

 

I can't be bothered responding and will let Trading Standards and The current OFT investigation deal with it now.

[jimfishybob]

Also just got a response from the FSA saying it isn't within their remit. Which I suspected anyway to be honest.

[jimfishybob]

Right.

 

Mother of all packages sent to TS on Friday. Hopefully will hear from them soon.

[stiffnuts]

Dont know what has happened but to reiterate section 174 of the consumer credit has been repeled by the enterprise act 2002