Fare Evasion - Wrong Bus Route Stated On Letter - ** SETTLED **

[man.with.no.plan]

Hi all,

 

Recently, my wife was sent by my mother to collect her medicines and this errand required a bus journey. My wife has only been in this country for a few weeks and was travelling on the bus unaccompanied for the first time. She had traveled a couple of times before, but that was with me and I would just give her the oyster to touch in and out.

 

Unfortunately, I was away on a conference in Switzerland at the time. She had no knowledge of the difference between a freedom pass, travel card, oyster etc. Long story short, my mother gave her a couple of oysters saying that one of them is topped up and the other is empty, just touch in whichever gives a green light will work.

 

It turns out that since she is partially sighted (only 10% vision remaining) and is on radiotherapy due to a brain tumour, she mistakenly gave my wife her freedom pass instead of one of the oysters because they were all in the same cover. When confronted by the ticket inspector, my wife told her the truth and tried to explain that she had no knowledge of the freedom pass but they obviously accused her of lying etc and took down her details. They didn't caution her or make her sign anything but she was sent a letter today saying that she boarded a bus without the correct pass/oyster etc and that she could explain her circumstances.

 

The thing is that they put the wrong bus route number on the letter - does this mean that they cannot charge her correctly/how to proceed? Might I add, that even though tfl probably doesn't care, we are both junior doctors and would never intentionally do something as devious as fare evasion intentionally. I have proof of my absence, my mothers medical condition, letters of reference from UK and Harvard professors etc for my wife. I also have proof of the topped up oyster that was left at home, although the one that was on her had no credit in it. My wife's travel history should also show up as having only a few journeys, and the freedom pass should show my mother's usual few journeys as well. It was a London Bus in West London.

 

I really hope you guys can help me and advise me how to proceed. Many thanks.

[man.with.no.plan]

PS. They also wrote her name wrong on the letter - the male version of her name instead of the female one. Coupled with the fact that they got the bus number wrong as well - is it even worth replying to the charge? I really want to reply and tell them of their mistake and explain the circumstances but am afraid that my research tells me that "Freedom Pass" and "no credit on oyster" mean they prosecute no matter what your circumstances were. Please help, Old-CodJa and Stigy

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Hopefully some of the industry experts will be along later with advice for you. Please bear with us until they can get here.

 

My best, HB

[man.with.no.plan]

Thanks for the swift reply honeybee! Any help from the experts would be greatly appreciated

[wtlh]

Thanks for the swift reply honeybee! Any help from the experts would be greatly appreciated

 

Hi,

 

Given the fact that

 

1. The bus number on the letter was not the one your wife took

2. The name on letter was not your wife's

3. Your wife did not sign anything during the interview

4. It has been days even weeks passed since the incident

 

So unless they took a photo of your wife at the spot. I think it would be very hard for the company to proof that it was actually your wife they caught. Even if the inspector "can" remember her, it would be his words against hers. And the bus route is wrong anyway so it would be easy for your wife to prove that she is not even on the bus at the time.

 

One thing that may go against you is that they have your mother's freedom pass. But if she has reported it to be lost, I can not see any solid evidence that the company may use to prove it was your wife.

 

As long as your wife is concerned, THIS letter has nothing to do with her, and she is just waiting for the correct letter to arrive.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

One thing that may go against you is that they have your mother's freedom pass. But if she has reported it to be lost, I can not see any solid evidence that the company may use to prove it was your wife.

 

Hello there. I'm not sure if I missed something, but has the Freedom card been reported missing?

 

I have a feeling there may not have been many replies here because misuse of Freedom cards is viewed very seriously. Unfortunately, very few people who ask for advice here for Freedom card matters come back to tell us how it played out, which may speak for itself.

 

I can only hope that people will see your thread and come here to help you. I would also mention that as far as I know, Old-CodJA and stigy are rail people and not buses, which may also have a bearing on it.

 

My best, HB

[man.with.no.plan]

Thanks for the replies HB and wtlh. I reported the confiscation to the freedom pass people as soon as the incident happened and explained the circumstances as above. What do you think I should do now - still ignore the charges from Tfl or reply with an explanation of the situation. My wife has aura with migraine which does give her blurred vision and poor concentration as well and maybe a letter from her GP would help. The ironic thing is she had a one day travel card at home as well so had no reason to dodge any fare - it truly was an honest mistake.

[firstclassx]

All London buses have CCTV which is stored for up to 3 months.

 

I also disbelieve the elaborate story about how the freedom pass ended up in her possession, but that's just my opinion. Don't forget that every journey made using the pass is logged, and CCTV etc can (and is) matched.

 

You're looking for a loophole to avoid IMO a justified prosecution.

 

Also IMO, the documentation received so far is not legally binding. They are usually asking for further information. The MG11 statement the Inspector will have written may well be much more accurate than a quick letter asking for your version of events. You get a copy of the full statement when you receive the summons.

 

Fare evasion on London Buses is contrary to the Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981 and the Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990.

 

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/Revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

The following factors make it more likely a prosecution would occur:

 

8.1 TfL will have regard to the following factors in favour of prosecution:

(a) Previous conviction for a relevant offence or where the offender has committed a similar offence on any of Transport for London services.

(b) Refusal to heed an earlier Warning about a similar conduct.

© Offender has committed any of the offences of a serious nature as set out in paragraph 5.1 of this policy.

(d) The offence occurred in an area or on a service known to occasion high revenue loss to TfL.

(e) The offender has failed to pay for the service or failed to have sufficient oyster card credit before boarding a relevant service1

(f) The offender has unlawfully used or transferred a Freedom pass, Staff Pass or other concessionary passes or travel documents issued to named holders.

Edited June 16, 2012 by firstclassx

[man.with.no.plan]

Thanks for the reply firstclassx. It's also good to hear that you don't believe my description of the events because an unbiased opinion is always welcome. If you had read my posts carefully you would have realized that I was simply asking whether since they had the wrong bus number is it even worth replying to them even though I clearly indicated that I am leaning towards correcting them and telling the correct bus and name etc. As far as the tfl prosecutions policy, I am well aware of it and even mentioned it above and that is why I am extremely worried. I think to summarize your message, you are saying that I should ignore the fact that they got all the details wrong and tell them the correct ones...

[firstclassx]

Thanks for the reply firstclassx. It's also good to hear that you don't believe my description of the events because an unbiased opinion is always welcome. If you had read my posts carefully you would have realized that I was simply asking whether since they had the wrong bus number is it even worth replying to them even though I clearly indicated that I am leaning towards correcting them and telling the correct bus and name etc. As far as the tfl prosecutions policy, I am well aware of it and even mentioned it above and that is why I am extremely worried. I think to summarize your message, you are saying that I should ignore the fact that they got all the details wrong and tell them the correct ones...

 

 

At the moment, they've not issued any sort of legal document, so it doesn't really matter if what they have sent you is factually incorrect.

 

The reality is this:

 

1) If you know that she is actually guilty, then do the honest thing and admit it. Correct the details, admit the offence & offer some REAL mitigation such as medical students and impact on career. Likely to produce an out of court settlement offer around £200-£300.

 

2) If you know for sure that it was completely unintended, a 100% GENUINE bona-fida honest mistake, and that a judge is likely to believe her, then I would personally state i.e. " I have considered your recent correspondence to this address and can only advise that on the specified xxx date, I did not travel on, nor commit any offence(s) to the very best of my knowledge on board bus number XX". Nothing else.

[man.with.no.plan]

Thanks once again for taking the time to respond to my post, firstclassx. I think I'll go with option 2 because although it may seem implausible that it was unintentional, it actually was - all the freedom pass and oyster card records will back this up as well anyway. So if I go with option 2, you said "a judge is likely to believe her" - are you implying that if we state that she did not travel on that bus or commit an offence, the matter will go straight to court? I don't mind going to court and proving her innocence, but lawyers and time off work are really costly to say the least. Do you think a viable option could be that we tell them the correct bus number and her name, and tell them that it truly was an honest mistake along with the mitigating circumstances like medical career and how the misunderstanding happened etc? Sorry for asking a lot of questions and once again I appreciate your help.

[firstclassx]

Honestly, I don't think TfL will buy your version of events.

 

I suspect that it is fairly likely no matter what way you approach this it will end up in the Magistrates Court.

 

You have to think whether the average man on the street would believe the story...

 

Bus legislation isn't really my specialty, (more railway orientated)...

 

Generally, the less you write, the less they can use/turn against you...

 

Deny being on the bus specified in the latest letter, which is at least true. Wait for a summons. Then you take your chances.

 

Think of how the questions in court may go though:

 

Prosecutor "Did you have a valid ticket when stopped on board the bus?"

Her "Well, no".

Prosecutor "Who's ticket did you have?"

Her "A OAPs"

Prosecutor "So you travelled using an vulnerable relatives travel pass?"

Her "Yes"

[Old-CodJA]

I think I'll go with option 2 because although it may seem implausible that it was unintentional, it actually was - all the freedom pass and oyster card records will back this up as well anyway. So if I go with option 2, you said "a judge is likely to believe her" - are you implying that if we state that she did not travel on that bus or commit an offence, the matter will go straight to court?

 

There are a couple of points in your post here that I think need very clear correction.

 

 

My reading of firstclassx post does NOT state that he believes 'a judge is likely to believe her'. The post says 'If you know for sure that..... a judge is likely to believe her.'

 

The post does not suggest that if she denies 'all knowledge', that it will go straight to Court, but I would not bank on not receiving a Summons.

 

It might help also to note that unless you are a lawyer who can be engaged to represent your wife, it will be she that has to prove her innocence. You might be given leave to speak as a 'Mackenzie friend', but I would certainly suggest that if she were to receive a Summons, and if she intends to plead 'not guilty', your wife should seek qualified legal advice well before the date of Court hearing

Edited June 16, 2012 by Old-CodJA

[man.with.no.plan]

I appreciate the help firstclassx. From what you say it seems that regardless of what we say or do, it will end up with a conviction. I guess I'll just go with the truth, give them the correct details and then hire a lawyer if it comes to it. Cheers

[man.with.no.plan]

Thanks for the advice Old-CodJa. If it does go to court, which it may well do, we will definitely hire a lawyer. I guess when you see so many cases of people misusing concessionary travel cards, you become a little cynical and use Occam's razor for all cases - if they had the pass and used it, they did it on purpose. Unfortunately, that approach may be right the overwhelming majority of times, it doesn't always hold true. I have evidence for each and every element of the incident and know for a fact that it's all true so am confident that if it does go to court, we should be able to prove her innocence. Wish us luck

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I have a quick question please. What did the confiscated Freedom pass look like?

 

HB

[man.with.no.plan]

Hello again.

 

I have a quick question please. What did the confiscated Freedom pass look like?

 

HB

 

Like a disabled freedom pass - yellow border. It was in a "best buy" blue card holder as were the other oyster cards we had.

[honeybee13]

 

Hello again. Do you mean like this?

 

HB

[man.with.no.plan]

Yes. Why do you ask?

[sailor sam]

Possibly because an oyster card is predominantly blue and looks nothing like a freedom pass. Hard to confuse which is which.

[man.with.no.plan]

Thanks for the reply Sailor Sam. They were in the same covers. Appreciate the humour though

[sailor sam]

Thanks for the reply Sailor Sam. They were in the same covers. Appreciate the humour though

 

And? I keep my driving licence in the same wallet as my bank card... but I can't recall using my licence in the cash machine.

[man.with.no.plan]

Your analogy isn't entirely accurate because bank cards and driving licences both require removal from their covers and not swiping and a similar sounding beeping sound that happens when you swipe either a freedom pass or an oyster card. I understand the point you are trying to make though and I appreciate your input - the onus is on the passenger to make sure he has the correct ticket/travel pass.

[Nystagmite]

eh? Why would you have to constantly remove your driving licence from your wallet?

[man.with.no.plan]

If someone asks to see it for ID, unless you have a transparent sleeve in your wallet - but even then you have to remove it and hand it over to the person who wants to see it, unless you prefer handing over your entire wallet of course. Regardless, you have to remove a bank card and insert in into the ATM machine meaning that if you removed the licence by mistake,the machine wouldn't accept it alerting you to your mistake straight away. I hope that satisfies your query Nystagmite - any more questions are also welcome as is any help from your side