Gazza and Capone

[citizenB]

I really dont know how to advise on this one Gazza. Lets do a pro and con list

 

For accepting plan:

 

You have a plan in place for at the very least 6 months.

 

This should stop all the threatening letters leaving you to deal with other creditors.

 

Against accepting plan at this stage.

 

You havent received a reply to your CCA request.

 

Do they have this document, if so, is it valid.

 

If they dont, what would have been your next step. Try to get the account written off. Highly unlikely that Capital 1 would do this voluntarily, it would mean going to court. or

 

Force them to accept £1.00 a month (they have agreed to that already)

 

If you accept the payment plan, you accept the debt.

 

You dont get to buy the donuts...

Edited October 31, 2008 by citizenB
made a vital amendment :)

[Gazza112]

CitizenB

 

You frightened me there a £1 a week, i was only going to give them a £1 a month lol.

Its true what you say, if i accept the £1 payment plan then i accept the dept. Considering i never asked them for a payment plan in the first place.

As you said i'm still waiting for there CCA, unless i send them a letter saying as soon as i receive my CCA i will take up your payment offer.

Something like that, what do you think, or i could test the water (hear we go again lol.) and ask them to right of the dept.

 

Gaz

 

Gaz

[citizenB]

Oops, sorry Gazza, £1.00 a week would probably have made C1 very happy .

 

OMG.. you are obsessed with water !!.. :D

 

 

Possibly in the first instance press them once more for sight of the agreement or ask them to confirm that they do NOT have it and why not. YOu could say something along the lines of.. I am a bit puzzled by your suggested payment plan, when in fact what I actually requested was sight of the agreement you believe exists between us.

 

Having sent you the required fee for this document, would you now please supply me with it alternatively confirm that you no longer have this in your possession and why?

 

 

 

I know andyorch suggests not pursuing them once they have failed to supply.. I guess again, this is a decision only you can make.

[Gazza112]

CitizenB

 

Yes, i may just ask them one more time and see if they have my CCA as they have cashed my postal order. Will have to find a good template for this letter. They also stated that they would default me once the payment plan was in progress. Didn't they default me a couple of months back or was that a bluff.

 

Gaz

[citizenB]

Actually that is a good question Gazza, I looked back over your thread and you have received a "statement of Default" in which they say

 

"We have terminated your account"

 

Now it was my understanding they had to Default you first then send you a notice of Termination. Someone else with more knowledge will have to asnwer that question for you.

 

I doubt there is a template letter as such,

 

Dear Whoever...

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated XX XXXX 2008

 

I am puzzled by your suggested payment plan, which I dont recall asking for. What I actually requested in my letter of XX XXXX 2008 was sight of the agreement you believe exists between us. You received this letter on Xx XXXX 2008.

 

Having sent you the required fee for this document, would you now please supply me with it. Alternatively confirm that you no longer have this in your possession and why?

 

Unless someone else comes along with something better.. that should do it.

[Gazza112]

CitizenB

 

Ok, i'll leave this over the weekend and think what i'll do over my jam donenut and a cuppa.

 

I was always addressing them as Dear Sir, but i like yours much better Dear Whoever........ lol.

 

They also stated that they have terminated my card and if i use it i would be breaking my payment plan. Then they say in the letter i can use that to pay the £1 token payment. Know are they trying to confuse me or what .

 

Gaz

[citizenB]

CitizenB

 

Ok, i'll leave this over the weekend and think what i'll do over my jam donenut and a cuppa.

 

I was always addressing them as Dear Sir, but i like yours much better Dear Whoever........ lol.

 

They also stated that they have terminated my card and if i use it i would be breaking my payment plan. Then they say in the letter i can use that to pay the £1 token payment. Know are they trying to confuse me or what .

 

Gaz

 

Well judging by their letter,they are confused. They are possibly just attempting to share that with you as well

 

They would be unlikely to receive any letter you sent over the weekend by Monday anyway so, yes.. putting some thought in over the weekend whilst dunking your donut in a cuppa sounds like a pretty good plan to me.

[Gazza112]

Hi CitizenB

 

Hope you had a fab weekend, and didn't do to much trick or treating over the weekend:D.

Ok its official i've lost the plot with Capital 1.

I've received my CCA from them today, be more procise well i received papers from them today if thats any good.

Here's what came through the post today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gaz

[citizenB]

I shouldnt worry too much about losing the plot, Gazza. I dont actually think it is you but Capital One who have deviated from the master plan.

 

Sending current t&cs is not acceptable.. if they think that this complies with the CCA then they are very much mistaken.

 

I am sure there is a letter lurking around the forums. I will have a look for you and link it here for you a bit later on.

 

Meanwhile, go and have a cup of tea or practise your high dives :D

 

BTW, did you send the letter in post 30.. if you havent sent that already, then I think we can add a bit extra to it.

Edited November 3, 2008 by citizenB

[Gazza112]

Hi CitizenB

 

I am a worrier , i've waited weeks passing up and down for this getting me all worked up .

Then what do i get is more wallpaper, they cant even get the paper right, iasked for pink .

I received my Barclaycard one as well today, and thats just as bad as this one.

I didn't sent the letter from post 30 today.

 

Gaz

[citizenB]

Ok, I copied over the other letter and just added a bit.

 

Dear Whoever...

 

FORMAL COMPLAINT

 

ACCOUNT NO:........ ?

 

I am in receipt of your letters dated 24th October received by me on the 31st October and your letter dated 23rd October which was received today.

 

In respect of your letter dated 24th October : I am puzzled by your suggested payment plan, which I dont recall asking for. What I actually requested in my letter of XX XXXX 2008 was sight of the agreement you believe exists between us. You received this letter on Xx XXXX 2008.

 

Having sent you the required fee for this document, would you now please supply me with it. Alternatively confirm that you no longer have this in your possession and why?

 

In respect of your letter dated 23rd October: Obviously you received the letter I refer to above, but still you fail to provide me with the documents I have requested. Just sending current terms and conditions is not acceptable.

 

I must insist that you now send me a copy of the agreement I have requested and paid for under the Consumer Credit Agreement Act 1974

 

I look forward to receiving the above within 14 days. If you are unable to provide this, then please advise your Final Response when I will be able to make a formal complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.

 

Yours etc,

 

Unless someone else comes along with something better.. that should do it.

 

You need to fill in the dates you sent the original request and their receipt of same.

 

Gazza, you are keeping the envelopes that come with these letters arent you ?

 

Hmmm, pink !!. Lilac is the "in" colour now I believe

[underdog13]

Hi Gazza, I would remove your total debt sum from your posting no 33 if I were you - you never know who's snooping round the site; would hate for any of the DCA's to identify you from this.

 

CitizenB, do you have any reference to the part of the act that says they have to supply you with T&Cs that were in place at the time of your original agreement? Sending out current T&Cs seems to be standard now and I was told that they do fulfill a CCA request since the 2006 amendments:(, but that if they want to take it to court they would need to produce the old T&Cs - bizarre! There's a lot of confusion over this; it would great if someone could clear it up.

[citizenB]

CitizenB, do you have any reference to the part of the act that says they have to supply you with T&Cs that were in place at the time of your original agreement? Sending out current T&Cs seems to be standard now and I was told that they do fulfill a CCA request since the 2006 amendments:(, but that if they want to take it to court they would need to produce the old T&Cs - bizarre! There's a lot of confusion over this; it would great if someone could clear it up.

 

Underdog, If I can find a reference I will put a link here for you. I would think the answer lies in the extremely long thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/33174-consumer-credit-act-agreements.html

 

It is my understanding that the only thing that doesnt have to be supplied for a CCA request to be satisfied is the signature boxes. Which surely is a lot of nonsense, if they have the correct document in the first place then it will be signed ??. The original document with prescribed terms and original t&cs are surely the basis of any future amendments they want to make and will, if court action is taken have to be provided. So why not when requested ?

 

It is up to the individual to assess, if all the creditor is supplying in respect of a CCA request is current terms and conditions, whether or not any other document is available.

Edited November 4, 2008 by citizenB

[citizenB]

here you go underdog. The thread itself is a good read and not as long as the other link Consumer Credit Agreements. Post 31 if the link doesnt take you there directly.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/83035-guidelines-requests-original-agreement-2.html#post763551

[citizenB]

And also this, .. as far as I am aware, the only amendment to this is that the "criminal" offence part has been removed under the new regulations.

 

77 Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

(a) the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;

 

(b) the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due; and

 

© the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.

 

 

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)©, he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

 

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

 

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

 

(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

 

 

(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

 

(5) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement.

 

 

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

(a) the state of the account, and

 

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

 

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

 

 

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (1)©, he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

 

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—

 

(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by the debtor, or

 

(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that subsection relating to the same agreement was complied with.

 

 

(4) Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the prescribed contents—

 

(a) showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve months, and

 

(b) where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of those periods during which there is any movement in the account.

 

(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

 

Running account credit is credit cards & fixed credit is loans

[underdog13]

Fantastic, thanks CitizenB:) I'm really pleased about this, as I was told they could get away with fobbing you off with the current T&Cs. Quote "shall give the debtor a copy of the agreement (if any) and any other document refered to in it":D Thanks again

[citizenB]

Fantastic, thanks CitizenB:) I'm really pleased about this, as I was told they could get away with fobbing you off with the current T&Cs. Quote "shall give the debtor a copy of the agreement (if any) and any other document refered to in it":D Thanks again

 

 

If you think about it Underdog, the bit you have highlighted above couldnt possibly be the current terms and conditions as they wouldnt have been printed at the time the account opened. So really any referred document in the original agreement would have to mean the t&cs at THAT time. That's my thinking anyway:D

[underdog13]

My thinking too Citizen B! So glad I found that quote - thanks to you!

[atwozee]

Don’t forget (and this applies to you Gazza) most credit cards are likely to state on any application/agreement that you sign ‘YOUR RIGHT TO CANCEL’ and then something like ‘we will send you in the post details of how to do this’

It doesn’t sound like much but if they fail to send you a copy of the document they refer to then they have not complied with your request. Whether you advise them of it or not is up to you but if they don’t comply they can’t enforce. It’s not your fault if they can’t read.

[Gazza112]

Hi All

 

Just received a letter from Capital 1, which as i read it is a bit confusing.

They state thankyou for writing in for M................. Which i sent myself.

Then they state that the last letter sen't didn't have the right 16 digit number on my last letter, which it did. But they still put the 16 digit number on the top of this letter.

What's going on with Capital 1, are they starting to crack under the preasure.

 

 

 

Gaz

Edited November 15, 2008 by Gazza112

[citizenB]

I think you are possibly correct, Gazza. If they have cracked up, you will have earned the gratitude of many 1,000s of persecuted CAGers

 

Going back to your letter, it is a bit bizarre isnt i? What was your last letter to them ?, wasnt it the one telling them they had got it wrong !. I am not sure what the answer to this is.

 

I guess you could write back asking them to clarify the contents of their letter as you havent a clue what they are banging on about.

[Gazza112]

Hi CitizenB

 

Yes, confused me as well:confused:, this is the last letter i sent them, and this as all the other letters i sent them had the correct 16 digit number on the letters.

 

 

Gaz

[citizenB]

It really doesnt make sense at all Gazza. Ok, action plan:D

 

Take a photocopy of both their letter and the last one you sent them.

 

Covering letter should read...

 

Dear Ms airhead,

 

Your letter dated 13th November (copy of which is enclosed) is rather confusing.

 

I enclose a copy of my Formal Complaint dated 5th November, nowhere does it advise that this letter has been written by or on behalf of a third party. I wrote it, it refers to me and I signed it. ( How are you signing your letters or not signing them as the case may be) The 16 digit number is the one I have used on previous correspondence and have received correspondence from you bearing that number.

 

Therefore I see no reason for any further delay in responding to my Formal complaint dated 5th November 2008.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

GAZZA

 

Enclosed copies : your letter dated 13th November and my Formal Complaint dated 5th November

[Gazza112]

Hi CitizenB

 

Yes, it is a bit confusing the letter they sent me.

The letters i send them are not signed but my name is typed.

The 16 digit number that was on that letter is the same number that's on my credit card statement.

I'll get that letter sent off tomorrow, with copies of letters sent.

Then see what reply comes back, but i can't believe they put my 16 digit number and postage reference number on the letter they sent me.

Very confusing .

 

Gaz

[citizenB]

Hi CitizenB

 

Yes, it is a bit confusing the letter they sent me.

The letters i send them are not signed but my name is typed.

The 16 digit number that was on that letter is the same number that's on my credit card statement.

I'll get that letter sent off tomorrow, with copies of letters sent.

Then see what reply comes back, but i can't believe they put my 16 digit number and postage reference number on the letter they sent me.

Very confusing .

 

Gaz

 

Just a quick question re the postage reference.. it is the same one that is for the letter dated 5th November ? Check it to make sure we are all talking about the same letter, in the event they are referring to another letter you have sent them

 

IMHO, it would have been much easier for them to refer to your letter dated (whenever)

 

Yep, continue to type your name only I would leave out the bit about your signing, the amended paragraph as below.

 

"I enclose a copy of my Formal Complaint dated 5th November, nowhere does it advise that this letter has been written by or on behalf of a third party. I wrote it and it refers to me. "