Victimisation after a Protected Act - any help please

[professional1964]

Hi I am taking my ex employer to employment tribunal and have been applying for job after job after job. A hell of a lot of jobs that I never even got to the first interview. I have excellent skills and 30 years experience and put it down to the current job market. However, today I decided to phone one of the agencies I am registered with and ask them what my ex employer's reference said about me.

 

The lady I spoke to said that when I registered in November they emailed the company, but they didn't get a response. So they called the office and they gave her the name of somebody to email. The person's whose email address they gave her is a man in another department, who is not even a senior member of staff.

 

He does not work in H.R. or personnel and he is not a director. He just deals with the logistics of deliveries. I was a P.A. to the Directors and never had dealings with him. He is one of the staff of the Director who was harassing and sexually harassing me. She then went on to explain that once she didn't get a response from him she emailed again in December and then last time in February - still no response.

 

This is where it gets interesting. On 12th September 2011 earlier in the day before I resigned and before I told them I would be taking them to Tribunal for constructive dismissal. I emailed a senior member of staff (who used to be a Director) and asked him if he would be willing to give me a reference. He emailed back and said he would be delighted to give me a reference. He is the person who does all the references for staff and I was the one who used to type them up. The agency has sent me copies of all the emails asking for a reference and I still have the email asking the senior member of staff if he will give me a reference so I have proof.

 

I have emailed the Tribunal stating that I would like to either add this to my claim or fill out another ET1. But my case is going to a pre hearing review so I don't know where I stand. Should I fill out another ET1 as I do not know how long it will take for the Tribunal to get back to me. I resigned on 12th September and my last day of employment was 10th October, but I was put on forced Garden Leave on the 22nd September. the last incident of harassment that was the final straw was on 8th September. Does anyone know the best thing for me to do if I want to pursue a claim for Victimisation following a Protected Act i.e. Employment Tribunal claim?

 

thank you

Edited March 28, 2012 by citizenB

[Browncow]

Hi I am taking my ex employer to employment tribunal and have been applying for job after job after job. A hell of a lot of jobs that I never even got to the first interview. I have excellent skills and 30 years experience and put it down to the current job market. However, today I decided to phone one of the agencies I am registered with and ask them what my ex employer's reference said about me.

 

The lady I spoke to said that when I registered in November they emailed the company, but they didn't get a response. So they called the office and they gave her the name of somebody to email. The person's whose email address they gave her is a man in another department, who is not even a senior member of staff.

 

He does not work in H.R. or personnel and he is not a director. He just deals with the logistics of deliveries. I was a P.A. to the Directors and never had dealings with him. He is one of the staff of the Director who was harassing and sexually harassing me. She then went on to explain that once she didn't get a response from him she emailed again in December and then last time in February - still no response.

 

This is where it gets interesting. On 12th September 2011 earlier in the day before I resigned and before I told them I would be taking them to Tribunal for constructive dismissal. I emailed a senior member of staff (who used to be a Director) and asked him if he would be willing to give me a reference. He emailed back and said he would be delighted to give me a reference. He is the person who does all the references for staff and I was the one who used to type them up. The agency has sent me copies of all the emails asking for a reference and I still have the email asking the senior member of staff if he will give me a reference so I have proof.

 

I have emailed the Tribunal stating that I would like to either add this to my claim or fill out another ET1. But my case is going to a pre hearing review so I don't know where I stand. Should I fill out another ET1 as I do not know how long it will take for the Tribunal to get back to me. I resigned on 12th September and my last day of employment was 10th October, but I was put on forced Garden Leave on the 22nd September. the last incident of harassment that was the final straw was on 8th September. Does anyone know the best thing for me to do if I want to pursue a claim for Victimisation following a Protected Act i.e. Employment Tribunal claim?

 

thank you

 

I have mede a similar claim for victimisation after a Protected Act. The time limits still apply so when did you lodgd your first ET claim? On what date were you denied the reference?

 

I generated a 2nd ET claim for the victimisation and asked the Tribunal to consolidate it with the first one so that they could be heard together.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

It may help people trying to help you if you post a link to your other thread.

 

It's rarely a good idea to fragment your questions and advice on multiple threads.

 

My best, HB

[becky2585]

You can submit another ET1 and request the claims be heard together, but the standard 3 month time limit applies so the ET may not have jurisdiction to hear the new claim.

[professional1964]

the first ET claim was made on 6th December, but I didn't realise until today that they had been ignoring requests for references. Now I know why i haven't been able to get a job! Is it too late for me to put in another ET claim or should I go ahead and fill out an ET1 and lodge it?

[becky2585]

The limitation date would arguably therefore be from the date of knowledge, or the last date that they sent you an unfavourable reference or refused to provide one at all, so yes, I would hope you were still in time for the victimisation claim.

[professional1964]

i really feel depressed about all of this. I emailed the Tribunal and asked them to add the Victimisation after a Protected Act into my claim. I copied the Respondent's legal people in on the email. Then I called the Tribunal and submitted another ET1 stating this Victimisatin after a Protected Act. The respondent's legal people have emailed me and said that I am being vexatious and that I should have told the agency to email a particular person instead, which I admit would have been best, but the fact is that the agency emailed the email address on the company's website; that being the main point of contact for anyone wanting to email anything to the company. The emails are checked daily and then directed to the relevant person. It is an office with only 25 members of staff so not a big organisation and physically a small company as in terms of the office size so everyone knows what every does. Then added to this when the agency didn't receive a response from the first couple of emails they actually phoned the company where I worked and asked somebody who they should address a reference request to. That person I believe purposely told them the wrong person to send the reference request to. This person works on the logistics desk and is not in personnel. Are my points valid???

a) The agency emailed the main company website email address

b) When no response called and asked who to send it to

c) They then sent it to the person they were told to send it to

d) Why did he not forward it on to the relevant person

e) This person works in the Department of the Director of the company who was harassing me

e) Why did he not reply to the agency email and say sorry I am not the right person so and so is and tell them the name

g) then two subsequent reference requests were addressed to the company email address again

h) the company always give references as I was the one who typed them.

i) Is it reasonable of me to expect the agency to have received a reference

These are my arguments why they should not have withheld a reference in view of the fact that I had done a 'protected act' i.e. ET claim. This took place from October 2011 to February 2012 but I only discovered it on Wednesday. This is why I haven't been getting any interviews and haven't been able to get a job. I sent in the ET1.

 

Am I really being vexatious - I really need someone's opinion because I feel like I am going mad. I just want to get a job so I can support my family surely that isn't being vexatious. Also now I have a no-win-no-fee solicitor willing to take on my case to the ET and the civil courts, but the small print says that if the company fail to pay I will be liable for the costs. Bearing in mind that the company in question have had a "proposal to strike off" in February and are not in good financial shape what should I do?? Please help thank you. I wish I had just resigned and not taken them to Employment Tribunal and let them get away with it and got a job somewhere else

Edited March 31, 2012 by professional1964

[SweetLorraine]

I am taking my employer to a tribunal. I was struck by the emotional content of your post. I think it is a given (I'm sorry to say) that your ex-employer and their legal represenatives will probably seek to undermine you and your case as it progresses.

 

I have dug out a couple of books on employment ribunals and had a look through. I understand it is for the Tribunal to decide whether all or part of any claim may be struck out as being 'scandalous or vexatious or has no reasonable prospect of success' - it is not your ex-employer's representatives to tell you that. Even if the Tribunal were to strike out this (side?)issue relating to the absence of job references you still have your main/substantive claim of constructive dismissal. Furthermore I understand that if the Tribunal were to seek to strike out any part of your case for being vexatious they would firstly give you the opportunity to tell them why you thought it wasn't vexatious before they made any such decision. It might help to remember this is your complaint - not the lawyers. Since I applied for a Tribunal hearing I have often been asked by many people (on my side as well as the employer's side) "What do you want out of this?" - it is something I had not clearly formulated in my own mind at the time - I just seen it as the next natural step in the process of (finally) getting a fair hearing. I now know what I want and that is a comfort to me. It allowed me to be more focussed/strong.

 

You say you are depressed and you wish you hadn't started the Tribunal process. You can step away and halt the process at any time. It is your complaint. Look at our substantive complaint. How strong do you and your lawyers think it is? And what do you want from your employer's as redress? Realistically, what might you get? If you haven't done it yet, I would sit down with your lawyers and try and bottom that out. I would also want them to explain/clarify the small print about charging you costs if they don't win the case. How can they be no-win no-fee if they charge a fee if they lose? That issue will be a constant worry to you all the way along that might hold you back from gaining a successful result. Try to get a clear idea of what costs are involved and then you can decide whether or not you will progress with the laywers you have hooked up with at present. You can still move forward with the claim under your own steam and their are other sources of support and advice you can still draw on.

 

Perhaps if the reference issue can be sorted out with your ex-employer and your agency (i.e. so that you can apply for jobs and hopefully move on) it could allow you to focus clearly on your main complaint and put some clear water between what happened back then, when you were with your ex-employer and what you are going to do now to seek redress for what happened during that time. If you have a good case and can clearly demonstrate to the Tribunal what happened to you - you should feel strong - not uncertain. The other side will hope to make you feel uncertain and unsure. Don't do their job for them.

 

I hope some of this helps. I know some of what you are going through. I'm sure we could do without it in our lives - but how would you feel if you walked away from it? What is best for your peace of mind and your health?

[professional1964]

I am taking my employer to a tribunal. I was struck by the emotional content of your post. I think it is a given (I'm sorry to say) that your ex-employer and their legal represenatives will probably seek to undermine you and your case as it progresses.

 

I have dug out a couple of books on employment ribunals and had a look through. I understand it is for the Tribunal to decide whether all or part of any claim may be struck out as being 'scandalous or vexatious or has no reasonable prospect of success' - it is not your ex-employer's representatives to tell you that. Even if the Tribunal were to strike out this (side?)issue relating to the absence of job references you still have your main/substantive claim of constructive dismissal. Furthermore I understand that if the Tribunal were to seek to strike out any part of your case for being vexatious they would firstly give you the opportunity to tell them why you thought it wasn't vexatious before they made any such decision. It might help to remember this is your complaint - not the lawyers. Since I applied for a Tribunal hearing I have often been asked by many people (on my side as well as the employer's side) "What do you want out of this?" - it is something I had not clearly formulated in my own mind at the time - I just seen it as the next natural step in the process of (finally) getting a fair hearing. I now know what I want and that is a comfort to me. It allowed me to be more focussed/strong.

 

You say you are depressed and you wish you hadn't started the Tribunal process. You can step away and halt the process at any time. It is your complaint. Look at our substantive complaint. How strong do you and your lawyers think it is? And what do you want from your employer's as redress? Realistically, what might you get? If you haven't done it yet, I would sit down with your lawyers and try and bottom that out. I would also want them to explain/clarify the small print about charging you costs if they don't win the case. How can they be no-win no-fee if they charge a fee if they lose? That issue will be a constant worry to you all the way along that might hold you back from gaining a successful result. Try to get a clear idea of what costs are involved and then you can decide whether or not you will progress with the laywers you have hooked up with at present. You can still move forward with the claim under your own steam and their are other sources of support and advice you can still draw on.

 

Perhaps if the reference issue can be sorted out with your ex-employer and your agency (i.e. so that you can apply for jobs and hopefully move on) it could allow you to focus clearly on your main complaint and put some clear water between what happened back then, when you were with your ex-employer and what you are going to do now to seek redress for what happened during that time. If you have a good case and can clearly demonstrate to the Tribunal what happened to you - you should feel strong - not uncertain. The other side will hope to make you feel uncertain and unsure. Don't do their job for them.

 

I hope some of this helps. I know some of what you are going through. I'm sure we could do without it in our lives - but how would you feel if you walked away from it? What is best for your peace of mind and your health?

 

 

Hi Thank you for taking the time to respond. Yesterday I got a Facebook friend request from the child of the person who was bullying me. Obviously I did not accept it. The child would not even know my surname. It is obviously them harassing me through their child! They are obviously trying to wear me down and will use any method possible. I feel stronger today. I was going to work again on compiling all the evidence again, but had a day out instead. It is very time consuming and draining.

Thank you

[stu007]

Hi Professional

 

Well I think this website may be of some use in your case, its the Equality and Human Rights Commission please have a good look as there is probably some good info there to aid your case I hope.

 

Heres the link: http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/

 

Also this link: http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/guidance-for-employers/ will take you direct to the part -

Guidance for employers about their rights under the Equality Act 2010 but have a good look at the site.

 

I do hope this is of some help to you.

Edited April 2, 2012 by stu007

[professional1964]

Hi Professional

 

Well I think this website may be of some use in your case, its the Equality and Human Rights Commission please have a good look as there is probably some good info there to aid your case I hope.

 

Heres the link: http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/

 

Also this link: http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/advice-and-guidance/guidance-for-employers/ will take you direct to the part -

Guidance for employers about their rights under the Equality Act 2010 but have a good look at the site.

 

I do hope this is of some help to you.

 

thank you all for your help/advice

 

I have just received a letter from the ET saying that my claim for Victimisation after a Protected Act has been accepted, which is good news.

 

I don't know whether I should go with the no win no fee solicitor as they want to take my ex employers to civil court too for harassment. Now I have also received that facebook friend request from the daughter of the person who was harassing me I am now worried they are stalking me on Facebook as it is unlikely that the daughter would know my surname. I now realise my profile was public so I have changed it to private (friends only). I have not been talking about the ET on Facebook at all or about anyone at my last employment so I have no worries there. It is just making me even more anxious about what they are in fact up to. I am going to see my GP again tomorrow as I was thinking of reducing my anxiety medication, but now this has happened I don't know whether I should or not in case it makes me have another set back. Maybe I should re-start the counselling again, just to get through all of this?

 

Thank you everyone for your support!

[SweetLorraine]

Hi, glad to read you are feeling stronger and the ET accepting your claim is good news as well. Next up will be a response from your employers (which will be sent to you through the ET - the response is called an ET3 and I think is meant to be done within 28 days or so). When I first got my employer's response I was furious at the lies I found there. I left it for a few days and then came back to it a bit calmer - and realised on a second/third reading that I could clearly demonstrate to the ET that large portions of it was utter nonsense. So if they do invent things don't get too upset - they are hardly going to agree with you straightaway/completely - they have to take some sort of defensive position. Take professional advice on it perhaps.

 

You and your ex-employer representatives may then be called to for a Case Management Discussion (CMD) where some discussion will take place around issues such as the timing/dates of the exchange of any documentary evidence between both parties, exchange of witness statements, when the ET hearing could take place etc;

 

I went along by myself assuming that this was all fairly straightforward. My employer sent a barrister! Nothing awful happened; but it was also a little more involved than I had expected and I did feel a bit out of my depth. The employment judge taking the meeting was quite understanding - but what I should have done is read up a bit more on what it was all about.

 

So I'd like to point you towards a website called etclaims.co.uk which is a regulaly updated and offers a great deal of practical advice. It works alongside a book called 'employment tribunal claims tactics and precedents' by Naomi Cunningham and Michael Read. The (latest) third edition came out in 2009 and it does a wonderful job of explaining each of the stages, I do wish I had picked it up sooner and I am glad I now have a copy. to refer too as I go along. It cost around £30 (less of ebay/amazon) and it can also be found at the larger libraries. The third edition is the one you need. It has heaps of good advice and refers you onto other websites and advice. You can tackle it at your own pace - it certainly helped take a lot of the worry of not knowing what I was getting into! I hope it might help you relax into the process a lot easier perhaps.

 

One of the options I was offered at my CMD was a judicial mediation.Given the nature of your claim, the worry you seem to have and the possible legal costs which you think might default your way (if your employer doesn't pay) perhaps this option might be worth considering ahead of the CMD itself. It is free to both sides (so maybe your no-win no-fee boys mightn't be too keen on it) and can be offered by the judge at the CMD as a more stress-free, cost-effective way of resolving the issues. Both sides have got to agree to/request a judicial mediation. I believe it takes place over one day (usually); it can happen a lot sooner than the ET hearing itself and a lot of the adversarial element is removed. You would be in one room and your employer's representative in another room with the judge flitting between the two rooms hoping to find a solution. You can step away from the judicial mediation process at any time and still continue towards your ET hearing if that's what you would prefer to do. I mention this just to let you know that there is possibly a less daunting way of getting a result without the stress of several days in a ET hearing.

 

Trust me I'm no legal eagle at all - I'm just a little further down the line than you. If I can point you towards the book and the website (and all the further info./advice that you might get from using that as a starting point) and take away some of your worry, and help you find your feet a bit so you can stand strong, then I'II be quite happy! (.... and I really should be going to bed - but I wanted to get this posted today/asap!)

.

Your claim has been accepted for a hearing - that is a credible start to build on now. All the best with it..

[professional1964]

Hi, glad to read you are feeling stronger and the ET accepting your claim is good news as well. Next up will be a response from your employers (which will be sent to you through the ET - the response is called an ET3 and I think is meant to be done within 28 days or so). When I first got my employer's response I was furious at the lies I found there. I left it for a few days and then came back to it a bit calmer - and realised on a second/third reading that I could clearly demonstrate to the ET that large portions of it was utter nonsense. So if they do invent things don't get too upset - they are hardly going to agree with you straightaway/completely - they have to take some sort of defensive position. Take professional advice on it perhaps.

 

You and your ex-employer representatives may then be called to for a Case Management Discussion (CMD) where some discussion will take place around issues such as the timing/dates of the exchange of any documentary evidence between both parties, exchange of witness statements, when the ET hearing could take place etc;

 

I went along by myself assuming that this was all fairly straightforward. My employer sent a barrister! Nothing awful happened; but it was also a little more involved than I had expected and I did feel a bit out of my depth. The employment judge taking the meeting was quite understanding - but what I should have done is read up a bit more on what it was all about.

 

So I'd like to point you towards a website called etclaims.co.uk which is a regulaly updated and offers a great deal of practical advice. It works alongside a book called 'employment tribunal claims tactics and precedents' by Naomi Cunningham and Michael Read. The (latest) third edition came out in 2009 and it does a wonderful job of explaining each of the stages, I do wish I had picked it up sooner and I am glad I now have a copy. to refer too as I go along. It cost around £30 (less of ebay/amazon) and it can also be found at the larger libraries. The third edition is the one you need. It has heaps of good advice and refers you onto other websites and advice. You can tackle it at your own pace - it certainly helped take a lot of the worry of not knowing what I was getting into! I hope it might help you relax into the process a lot easier perhaps.

 

One of the options I was offered at my CMD was a judicial mediation.Given the nature of your claim, the worry you seem to have and the possible legal costs which you think might default your way (if your employer doesn't pay) perhaps this option might be worth considering ahead of the CMD itself. It is free to both sides (so maybe your no-win no-fee boys mightn't be too keen on it) and can be offered by the judge at the CMD as a more stress-free, cost-effective way of resolving the issues. Both sides have got to agree to/request a judicial mediation. I believe it takes place over one day (usually); it can happen a lot sooner than the ET hearing itself and a lot of the adversarial element is removed. You would be in one room and your employer's representative in another room with the judge flitting between the two rooms hoping to find a solution. You can step away from the judicial mediation process at any time and still continue towards your ET hearing if that's what you would prefer to do. I mention this just to let you know that there is possibly a less daunting way of getting a result without the stress of several days in a ET hearing.

 

Trust me I'm no legal eagle at all - I'm just a little further down the line than you. If I can point you towards the book and the website (and all the further info./advice that you might get from using that as a starting point) and take away some of your worry, and help you find your feet a bit so you can stand strong, then I'II be quite happy! (.... and I really should be going to bed - but I wanted to get this posted today/asap!)

.

Your claim has been accepted for a hearing - that is a credible start to build on now. All the best with it..

 

Hi that was my second claim the first was for harassment/sexual harassment. That was accepted too, but they say it was vexatious, which it was not. Still trying to decide whether to go down the no win no fee route. I would rather settle that go to the Tribunal, but they are not making any moves in that direction. Thank you for all your advice. There is going to be a pre hearing review for my first claim but I dont have the date yet. I will definitely look at the website you recommend and buy the book if I dont go no win no fee. What is your ET claim for? thank you for staying up to reply it is much appreciated

[SweetLorraine]

Ah - my ET? - I blew the whistle on internal corruption. Guess how my 'grateful' managers reacted!

[professional1964]

OMG same as me!! They have all closed ranks to protect themselves. My claim is so multi-faceted. The abuse has been going on for years harassment/sexual harassment/corruption etc. etc. I am the only person to have ever stood up to them! luckily I have documents to prove my whistleblowing claim. People in the accounts department came and went every six months as as soon as they saw what was going on they were gotten rid of. I thought better to come out in the open and do the whistleblowing to protect myself as if I had done it anonymously I would have not been protected. i will keep you posted.

[SweetLorraine]

Hi, I see what you mean by 'multifacted' - I just picked up on your other 'older' thread. Couple of things struck me.

 

Firstly your ex-employers seem to be successfully baiting you for a reaction. They may do this to try to unsettle you, and/or distract you (and the tribunal) from the main complaint and/or to see what they can prompt out of you in an unguarded moment. You should concentrate on working to/with the tribunal now - try not to react to everything that your ex-employer throws at you to wind you up.

 

Secondly, and this is a purely personal viewpoint, I am worried about the level of detail about your case that you are putting up for public show in that thread. This is a site that can be viewed by anybody - and that might include your ex-employers chancing across it and realising it is you. I (personally) would not have written some of the points that you have put up for public viewing. You need to be more careful - you are in the process of taking a civil action against your ex-employer after all.

 

 

 

.