And another train penalty issue

[Ellie89]

Will try to keep it brief. Few months ago I travelled from Uni to home for the weekend. Bought normal off peak anytime return (with 16-25 discount card) ticket. Anyhow the line that I needed to travel back home on on the Sunday was having maintainance work and the journey back would have been a nightmare. I decided to travel back early Monday Morning when everything was as it should be. We did check on the website and offpeak tickets were available for the journey I had intended to take on the Monday morning.

 

Travelled from Liverpool St. to Chelmsford on the Monday morning. I had to go through the 'manned' entrance as I had a large suitcase and the ticket collector said my ticket was not valid. Wanted £40. I didn't have it so paid £10 and they said they would write to me regarding the balance and my right to appeal. I went to give my uni address but the guy insisted on my home address.

 

When I next visited home there was a letter there asking for the balance and details of how to appeal. I appealed online and have now received a letter stating that as my appeal was submitted more than 28 days after the fine (because it was sent to my home address) then they could not consider my appeal.

 

I have now just recieved another letter saying that I did not pay it within given time it has gone up to £70.

 

What I did query in my appeal that they would not consider is that the ticket was accepted in London as valid, yet 40 minutes later its not valid. Surely if I wasnt allowed to use it for that journey it should have alerted me prior to boarding the train. Also even now I can go online and purchase the same ticket I had, for the journey at that time on a Monday morning.

 

Any advice as to where I can go to appeal my lack of appeal !! would be much appreciated.

[The Urbanite]

Hi,

 

Can you remember which train you took and the origin/destination and price of the ticket?

[Ellie89]

Hi,

 

Can you remember which train you took and the origin/destination and price of the ticket?

 

Yes I have the tickets here and the receipt I was given for the £10 I paid. Something else I have just noticed is that the receipt says its a penalty for travelling from the stop prior to the one I got off at and not the one that I got on at. Don't know if that is relevant tho.

[honeybee13]

Yes I have the tickets here and the receipt I was given for the £10 I paid. Something else I have just noticed is that the receipt says its a penalty for travelling from the stop prior to the one I got off at and not the one that I got on at. Don't know if that is relevant tho.

 

Sorry, I don't know what you mean here.

 

Did you have a ticket from and to the right stations please?

 

My best, HB

[MrGates]

So it would appear that you were issued a penalty fare and only paid £10 towards the £40 fare required, Why did you not appeal the penalty fare at the time? Im unclear as to why they would have told you to wait to hear from them when the info regarding paying and appealing is on the penalty fare notice. If they have turned down your appeal already you really are best just paying what is being asked im affraid, It seems harsh i know but notice can be cancelled and returned to TOC for prosecution.

 

When you started your jouney at london did the ticket get rejected?

[The Urbanite]

Yes I have the tickets here and the receipt I was given for the £10 I paid. Something else I have just noticed is that the receipt says its a penalty for travelling from the stop prior to the one I got off at and not the one that I got on at. Don't know if that is relevant tho.

 

Ok, so which train did you take, what ticket did you buy and how much did it cost? I'm trying to establish the validity of the ticket.

[MrGates]

The issue of trying to resolve the issue with ticket validity now maybe be limited due to the fact appeal was turned down and the original notice has attracted admin charges.

[Ellie89]

I will try and answer all questions in one post.

 

The ticket I bought was offpeak anytime return, purchased at Chelmsford station on a Friday for travel to and from Liverpool Street Station. Ticket was £12.35 (before my discount). It is valid for one month from purchase and states that on the ticket. I was travelling back the following Monday.

 

My reason for not appealing it earlier was that I was told I would be contacted. Suppose I should have chased it up sooner myself. What is really puzzling me as I said earlier, I can buy the very same ticket for journey at that time of the day so how can it not be valid. It was accepted in the barrier at Liverpool Street Station when I boarded the train.

 

Also as the only proof of id with my address on it at the time was with my home address and not uni address on it so that was the only address he would accept. Only get home every few weeks. My parents said bring the paperwork home next time and we will look at it. Course by the time I got home the letter was already there with the penalty for not paying within 21 days. Looks like a costly journey for me.

 

Also looking on the receipt it says the journey is from Shenfield to Chelmsford. Shenfield is a stop on the train, but not the one that I got on at.

 

In hindsight I should have questioned it more fully at the time, but rushing not wanting to be late back to uni etc. I will probably end up paying it but it galls me that I still do not know why it was not valid. Guy just kept saying it was the wrong ticket and I can't see how it was.

[MrGates]

what are times?

[Ellie89]

what are times?

 

I boarded at Liverpool Street Station at 6.55AM and arrived in Chelmsford at 7.30AM

[MrGates]

Return part of Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak Return tickets are valid for travel within one calendar month of the outward journey. Travel is allowed until 0230 on the day following the last day of validity. If you are still travelling at 0230 then you may stay on the train to complete that part of the journey but no further break of journey is allowed and all travel must be completed by 1200. Not valid on any train departing London Liverpool Street or London Kings Cross before 0930 and not between 1629 or 1834 inclusive (1900 from London Kings Cross) although travel is permitted on the 1636 from London Liverpool Street to Braintree, for destinations Hatfield Peverel to Braintree inclusive. Hopes this will clarify.

[Ellie89]

Return part of Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak Return tickets are valid for travel within one calendar month of the outward journey. Travel is allowed until 0230 on the day following the last day of validity. If you are still travelling at 0230 then you may stay on the train to complete that part of the journey but no further break of journey is allowed and all travel must be completed by 1200. Not valid on any train departing London Liverpool Street or London Kings Cross before 0930 and not between 1629 or 1834 inclusive (1900 from London Kings Cross) although travel is permitted on the 1636 from London Liverpool Street to Braintree, for destinations Hatfield Peverel to Braintree inclusive. Hopes this will clarify.

 

Awww that would be it then. Thanks for that. Shame the machine at Liverpool St. didn't spit the ticket back out at me. But at least I now know why. Better raid the penny jar .

[RPI]

you cannot be penalty fared for being on a restricted ticket, it is against the PF rules, just to get the facts straight here, did you have an off-peak ticket and travel in peak time? if so the PF should not have been issued and you should only have been charged the difference between the fare you paid and the ticket required at that time. If you had appealed at the time you would almost certainly have succeeded in your appeal, now that the 21 days has passed you may be on dodgy ground, it may be worth writing to the TOC's customer services and pointing this out to see what they say.

[Ellie89]

you cannot be penalty fared for being on a restricted ticket, it is against the PF rules, just to get the facts straight here, did you have an off-peak ticket and travel in peak time? if so the PF should not have been issued and you should only have been charged the difference between the fare you paid and the ticket required at that time. If you had appealed at the time you would almost certainly have succeeded in your appeal, now that the 21 days has passed you may be on dodgy ground, it may be worth writing to the TOC's customer services and pointing this out to see what they say.

 

Yes thats right it was a offpeak return ticket that I was travelling on. And looking at what is posted above I should not have travelled on it before 09.30AM. As you say probably will have to just pay up, but worth a letter if only to have a moan .

[MrGates]

You are correct about the gates rejecting tickets, On the notice given to you what is the reason listed as why it was issued to you?