excessive fees oon LO for non domestic rates- how best to proceed?

[bankonthis]

Phone the bailiff and tell him you have been in touch with council and you have been told he has charged a levy fee of £65 and a van attendance fee ask him what goods he has levied ask him why he didn't leave a notice of seizure ask him to confirm the the date the van/attendance fee was charged tell him you have paid the outstanding liability order plus legitimate fees of £24.50 (he is not going to be happy)

 

Then tell him you are fully versed in the currant legislation and he not carried out his duties properly ask him to confirm that he was was certificated at xxx court as you feel that his fitness to hold a certificate could now be brought before the court

 

sorry i'm getting behind on the thread i have spoken to him he knows i've paid the council and i told him i've paid the 1st fee he is a bit quieter now. But i wonder what i should do next if anything, should i ring up and ask him to confirm the dates and lay the threat of bringing him before court?

[nohope]

I would leave him alone now and stop worrying.

You paid his fee which the council will forward on to him and thats the end of it. If he bothers to try and chase you now he's breaking the law as he would be trying to collect on his fees alone which he cant do in person plus his fees apart from the first visit is rubbish.

Stop worrying now and sit back knowing you have got up a bailiffs nose lol

[hallowitch]

sorry I'm getting behind on the thread i have spoken to him he knows I've paid the council and i told him I've paid the 1st fee he is a bit quieter now. But i wonder what i should do next if anything, should i ring up and ask him to confirm the dates and lay the threat of bringing him before court?

 

sorry ignore that post you had already phoned him

 

really speaking you have not discharged your liability until fees under schedule 5 and the liability order are paid in full as it stands you still have a balance of £300+

 

If the bikes were in your space the bailiff has a right to assume prima facie (at first sight ) phone him back and ask him if he will put a copy of the notice of seizure in post tell him if you don't receive it within 7 days you will send a subject access request under the data protection act to chandlers to recover it

 

tell him as you have not seen the notice of seizure can he confirm that the goods levied will cover all bailiff fees removal fees storage fees auction fees and a portion of the principle debt if he ask why (tell him you know goods levied must cover all bailiff fees storage fee auction fees and a portion of the debt as you are aware of the Detailed Assessment Judgment of Throssell v Leeds City Council )

 

ask him confirm that he was certificated at xxx court(if he asks why just you feel that his fitness to hold a certificate may need to be brought ino question ) then tell him you are going to start by making a formal complaint to head of revenues and the ceo of the council about his lack of paperwork and unlawful fees

 

Detailed Assessment Judgment of Throssell v Leeds City Council where the District Judge ruled as follows:

“Turning to the taxation it seems to me that notwithstanding the fact that there were three liability orders but one visit was made by one bailiff and the maximum that the Council’s reasonable charges can be is the result of applying the formula contained in Schedule 5 paragraph 2 (1) (b) of the Regulations”

 

they cannot charge so many fees if only one visit is made

as for your car how old is it? I.E. would the sale of it actually cover a large percentage of the bill anyway?

a vehicle should only be removed if the proceeds of sale provide that there would be a surplus available to the liability order after deductions for the bailiff fees, , removal storages and auctioneers fees.

Edited January 18, 2012 by hallowitch

[bankonthis]

Ok i will do this tonight, I can't believe they can really use property chained up in a courtyard of a large building surely this is bogus i'm really surprised. They were after all outside and could be anyones and probably are abandoned and worthless.

[hallowitch]

Ok i will do this tonight, I can't believe they can really use property chained up in a courtyard of a large building surely this is bogus I'm really surprised. They were after all outside and could be anyones and probably are abandoned and worthless.

 

they use any trick in the book to increase there fees and as yours is NDR they think you are there Holiday fund

 

bailiffs collecting NDR seem to add very large van/attendance fees and as the debt are usually in excess of £1,000 its kaching all the way for them Most people don't know any better and pay up

 

Dont forget to record the call

[bankonthis]

phew what a day thank you for you support hollowitch and nohope, I have just put my oldest daughter to bed and so it's the first chance to log on since leaving work.

 

I did however get a chance to call the bailff he said he would give me another copy of the seizure notice.

 

He still maintains that he served one in the first instance but is clearly lying, I have covered the window so no one can see in just in case he comes looking for something to add to the seizure notice retrospectively. Since he's already addmitted to levying on two bikes that don't belong to me, i can prove i was nowhere near the studio on that day and probably find the owners of said bikes, am i right in thinking that he has no hope on this count.

 

He claims the bikes were right outside my door but they are infact on the other side of the courtyard and next to the main entrance to the building i have my own entrance and this is a public access area where anyone can pass. I think he is at best clutching at straws and knows this.

 

Essentially if I can prove that the bikes don't belong to me will that not void the levy, and the attending to remove goods charge. On this last issue are they not required to return to remove goods in other words isn't it irregular procedure to levy and attend on the same visit?

 

I am feeling a bit calmer he said on the 1st call that 'the problem is that you've paid the council' i assume that means a problem for them and that the council are not paying the baliff charges with the money i gave them, and it's reduced his authority in the situation to practically nil.

[nohope]

If the charges are for the levy of the bikes then the charges wont stand as they are not your property but if he decided to be a twit then you mite need to find who ever owns them and get then to prove they belong to them.

A bailiff will levy on anything in sight if he thinks it mite belong to the person he's looking for but 9 times out of 10 they get it wrong and you would have thought they would learn by now and stop taking other peoples stuff.

[bankonthis]

yes they really don't care, i suppose if they do get it wrong most of the time they think it doesn't matter if no-one calls them on it as long as they appear to be within the law. I think this constructive levy business is a real flaw in the system if they were no longer able to just levy on the first thing they lay eyes on then they would have to do a bit more legwork and perhaps it wouldn't be such an attractive job for extortionists...

[ploddertom]

I'm very interested to see what he says he has actually levied on as think one could have a bit of fun at his expense.

 

PT

[bankonthis]

well i'm rather looking forward to it myself and i will post immediately once i've recieved the notice of seizure, though it does look like these bikes at the moment. I've recorded the calls today and i have to admit i'm starting to enjoy listening to the sound of pedals motioning backwards...

 

Have you got any good tips?

 

Incidently i'm using a third party number to record the calls but it's a bit pricey if anyone knows of another? This service sends the calls to you as an mp3 for free but calls internationally and to mobiles are 50p/min and 10p to a landline.

[bankonthis]

well I went back to my studio this evening still no copy of notice of seizure or breakdown of costs incurred...it seems to have gone very quiet. I think I'll give it a couple of days and follow up at the beginning of next week, though I suspect it's been settled by the good people of Hackney council.

 

 

It's left me feeling very sour and I'm wondering whats the best way to leave things at the very least i think i need to highlight this bad practice to someone in the council but who? they all seem deaf and blind to these shenanigans...

[nohope]

complaining to the council is a good idea just for the fun of it. it can be very long winded to actually get anywhere with them and there first answer to anything you send them will be something along the lines of what ever the bailiff tells them to say.

[seanamarts]

If it was me, I would leave sleeping dogs at the moment.

The bailiff knows he has done wrong and knows he has been caught out.

I wouldnt put yourself through any more stress by complaining... yet!

If the bailiff pushes it then start complaining.. loudly

[tomtubby]

If you were to go back on posts from around 2-3 years ago (before the recession really took hold) you will see that bailiffs very rarely ever charged a "van attendance" at the same time as an initial visit. In the past 6-9 months, so many of them are doing so on a routine basis.

 

I quite agree that a bailiff cannot make a living by charging £24.50 ( or £18.00) and that the fees should have been increased years ago. However, that is the fault of the government. What is clear is that a bailiff knows that in taking on this job that he MUST abide by the fee scale as laid down by Parliament. If he can make a living by charging the statutory fees then there is a simple solution. DONT TAKE THE JOB!!!

 

With council tax, the purpose of the visit is to "levy upon goods". A bailiff can make such a visit in his vehicle without any problem at all. If he is able to levy, then goods would be recorded on a walking possession and this allows the bailiff to give the debtor a short "breathing space" of 5 days ( or however many days is agreed between the bailiff and the debtor) in which to raise the money ( or set up a payment plan).

 

If the debtor allows the bailiff entry into the house (NEVER recommended) then he will look around the property to see if there are any goods worth levying upon. It may be that all of the goods are of little value.......could possibly be from Brighthouse etc ( on HP)....... or may belong to the Landlord and included in the tenancy..............IT IS PRECISELY FOR THIS REASON THAT A BAILIFF CANNOT CHARGE a fee for "attending with a view to the removal of goods" !!!

 

The bailiff would need to FIRSTLY establish if there were any goods on which to levy. If so, they cant be removed in any event for at least 5 days !!!!

 

I am sorry to say, but as far as I can see, the charging of a fee for "attending with a vehicles with view to the removal of goods" is a SHOCKING ABUSE by local authorities and bailiff companies.

[nohope]

The bailiff would need to FIRSTLY establish if there were any goods on which to levy. If so, they cant be removed in any event for at least 5 days !!!!

 

Would this also be for a levy on a car?

[tomtubby]

On the matter of levying upon the car.......once again, the bailiff would need to FIRSTLY establish whether there was a car that could be levied upon. Next he would need to see whether it was on HP or finance.

 

Even then, the car could have been damaged etc and that is why the bailiff would need to FIRSTLY attend to LEVY upon goods.