santander card Found guilty in absence, please help. N244?

[ZENTRIX9]

I sent the account in dispute letter on wed 18/08/2010 by 1st class recorded deivery.

 

date of service would have been Friday 20/08/2010.

 

They sent me a default notice dated Saturday 21/08/2010,

does this mean that they have unlawfully issued a DN and that would render it invalid?

 

If so do I just sit tight and wait for them to terminate the account and just pay them the arrears?

[sir_gilmour]

Hi ZENTRIX9

Welcome to The Consumer Action Group.

 

 

I am just letting you know that as you haven't had any replies to your post yet, it might be better if you post your message again in an appropriate sub-forum. You will get lots of help there.

 

Also take some time to read around the forum and get used to the layout. It is a big forum and takes a lot of getting used to.

 

 

Once you start to find your way, you will soon realise that it is fairly easy to get round and to get the help you need.

 

It can be bit confusing at first.

[saintly_1]

Moved to General Debt forum

[ZENTRIX9]

I have put my account into dispute and HSBC continue to add "arrears" to the balance.

If I receive a DN with the extra arrears added would this make the DN invalid? Surely they can only ask for the arrears up to the point that I put the account in dispute.

Can anyone comment on this?

[MARTIN3030]

will move your post.

[ZENTRIX9]

I have a faulty DN from Santander which was issued 1 day after they received my account in dispute letter. They have now passed it onto Viking, their in house debt collectors. They have sent 4 letters now, 2 of which are demanding payment in full. Do I send them a letter asking if the account has been terminated. Does asking for the balance in full off the back of a faulty DN constitute the closing of the account unlawfully and do I acceot their unlawful repudiation. Thus rendering the account closed and uncollectable.

 

Any help will be appreciated.

[sir_gilmour]

Hello ZENTRIX9, welcome to the CAG.

 

Enjoy your visit, but take some time to look around the forum and understand where everything is.

 

 

It can seem confusing at first but you will start to find your way round and to understand what a helpful community we are.

 

You haven't received any replies to your post yet. Try posting your query again in a relevant sub-foum. You will get the help and support you need there.

[miss muppet]

Hi there,

 

Have a look at this lively, long and interesting thread, quite a bit of lively debate going on, especially on the later pages.

 

Have you also got a dodgy agreement as well?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?196312-Invalid-Default-Notices

[ZENTRIX9]

Not sure if the agreements dodgy. Still looking at it. It may be cos Viking are now involved and they are useless!

[MARTIN3030]

thread moved

[ZENTRIX9]

Just found this on the OFT website. Is it correct. They are saying that they can send DN etc if we dont get our CCA request after 12 days!

 

Sections 77, 78 and 79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account and hire agreements.

Under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:

• a copy of their agreement
  
• copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
  
• a statement of account.
  

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor:

• cannot:
  - make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
  - get a court judgment against the debtor
  - take back anything hired or bought on credit, or take anything used as security in the agreement.
  
• can:
  - ask debtors to pay what they owe
  - send a default notice
  - pass information on to a credit reference agency
  - pass information on to a debt collector
  - sell the debt to someone else
  - take the case to court.
  

Heres the link

http://www.oft.gov.uk/about-the-oft/legal-powers/legal/cca/unenforceable-credit-agreements

[ZENTRIX9]

Hi I recently got a claim form Howard Cohen for Santander.

 

I sent a 31.14 request for documents in their POC.

They were the card agreement and a default notice.

 

They sent me the card agreement but said that I already have the default notice as I have said this in previous correspondence.

 

Surely they still need to send me a copy under the 31.14 request?

 

I have submitted an embarrased defence and they have now sent me a part 18 request and are asking me for a copy of the default notice that I have.

 

Now this looks to me as if they havent got it and need a copy.

Do I reply saying that I will send them a copy as they have requested once they have complied with my 31.14 request. In otherwords I will show you mine if you show me yours, and I asked first!

 

How will the court view this?

Will they say that I have not complied with the part 18 request and look in favour to Howard Cohen?

 

In their request they have said that they require a copy of the default notice as referred to in my previous letter so they can make further enquiries with their client in relation to my allegations to its validity.

 

I could do with replying to them today if someone can help

[cerberusalert]

Moved to the legal forum.

[AndyOrch]

Hi Zentrix

 

You must respond to CPR 18 request or they may make application to enforce it.Its not the norm for them to retain a copy of the DN

or required as long as they have log that one was issued.Did you refer and imply you had a copy of the DN in your defence?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[ZENTRIX9]

Hi Andy this is what I submitted in my defence below. I dont think that I mentioned the default notice only that my cpr 31.14 was not fully complied with. They know that I have one from previous correspondence.

How much of the claim do you dispute?

 

 

I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.

 

Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it?

 

 

No, for other reasons.

 

Defence

 

 

Defence

 

1. I XXXXXXXXX am the defendant in this action and make the following

statement as my defence to the claim made by Santander Cards UK

Ltd.

 

2. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of

Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

 

3. The Claimants' particulars of claims disclose no legal cause of

action and they are embarrassing to the defendant as the

claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and

does not comply or even attempt to comply with CPR part 16. In

this regard I wish to draw the courts attention to the following

matters

 

a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not

disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding

the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in

relation to the nature of the written agreement referred to, the

method the claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any

other matters necessary to substantiate the Claimant's claim.

 

b) A copy of the purported written agreement that the Claimant

cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the

basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been

served attached to the claim form.

 

c) A copy of any evidence of both the scope and nature of any

default, and proof of any amount outstanding on the alleged

accounts, has not been served attached to the claim form.

 

4. On receipt of the claim form the Defendant sent a request for a

copy of the agreement which forms the basis of this claim. At the

time of filing this defence , the Defendant has received only a

part response to the CPR31.14.

 

5. The Claimant claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the

County Courts Act, 1984 which the Claimant should surely know they

are not entitled to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on

Judgment Debts) Order, 1991 (SI 1991 No. 1184 (L. 12)) in

particular section 2(3)(a), which clearly prohibits such an award:

 

· The general rule

 

2(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the

relevant judgment - (a) is given in proceedings to recover money

due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

6. Consequently, I deny all allegations on the Particulars of

Claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof

 

7. I respectfully request the Court’s permission to submit an

amended defence should the Claimant file a fully particularised

Particulars of Claim

[AndyOrch]

Is the DN valid (correct format, amount, rectification date ie 14 days) They have nothing to gain or you to lose in providing a copy.

Most DJs would be content that one was issued but was it valid????

 

Regards

 

Andy

[ZENTRIX9]

What I am thinking is that if they havent sent me the documents they mention in the POC they havent complied with the CPR 31.14 request. As I havent mentioned the default notice in my defence and just said that I have only had a part response to my request that they cant ask me for a copy. If they have lost or not kept a copy of the original then would that stop them progressing. It is stayed at the moment.

[AndyOrch]

I would consider basing ones defence on the non compliance of a CPR request and them not being able to provide a copy of said DN

skating on thin ice, is there no more you can inject, dispute, unfair charges, PPI? Does the agreement look ok?

 

 

Andy

Edited June 17, 2011 by Andyorch
typo

[ZENTRIX9]

Heres a link to the default notice. It has no specific date to remedy by, just "14 days from receipt of this notice" and "action is taken before the date shown" the only date shown is the date the letter was typed so how can you comply before the date that they typed the letter to send out? So in my eyes they have not used the prescribed form as layed down in the CCA.

 

http://i911.photobucket.com/albums/ac318/zentrix9/MR%20SANTANDER/2ndletter.jpg

[bazaar]

The point is, have you received a DN? If you have, then you should admit that and send them a copy, if its a valid DN, then you are in a difficult situation. For your request they can just show that one was sent, as they dont keep copies.

For the other part of the claim, you should be looking at any additional charges etc, so you can maintain the disputed amount

[ZENTRIX9]

Based on the faulty default I accepted their unlawful recision as they asked for payment in full. Dealing with both Santander and Howard Cohen I sent Santander a reminder that I had accepted their unlawful recision. Their reply was.

The account was assigned to the Lewis Group on 11th Jan. When this happened the agreement between you and Santander Cards was terminated and the Lewis Group became the legal owners of the debt.

The account was not therefore terminated as you have suggested nor have we rescinded the agreement. This letter was recieved at the same time that I got the court claim from the claimant "Santander". So who owns the debt?

[ZENTRIX9]

The point is, have you received a DN? If you have, then you should admit that and send them a copy, if its a valid DN, then you are in a difficult situation. For your request they can just show that one was sent, as they dont keep copies.

For the other part of the claim, you should be looking at any additional charges etc, so you can maintain the disputed amount

 

 

While the account has been in dispute they have continued to add interest.

[ZENTRIX9]

I was consider basing ones defence on the non compliance of a CPR request and them not being able to provide a copy of said DN

skating on thin ice, is there no more you can inject, dispute, unfair charges, PPI? Does the agreement look ok?

 

 

Andy

 

 

Some unfair charges I think, still adding interest while account was in dispute, harrassment by phone, agreement looks ok it was an online application so dont know what to look for really.

[AndyOrch]

The account was assigned 11th Jan 2011? Who is the claimant on the summons? Did you request a copy or did you receive a NoA?

What is the full P.o.C verbatim?

[ZENTRIX9]

The account was assigned 11th Jan 2011? Who is the claimant on the summons? Did you request a copy or did you receive a NoA?

What is the full P.o.C verbatim?

 

The cliam for is dated 21st feb

The claimant is Santander Cards UK Ltd

Whats Noa?

 

Poc was:-

 

The claimants claim is for the sum of 3XXX.XX being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated credit agreement made in writing under ref XXXXXXXXXX

 

The defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served upon the defendant pursuant to section 87(1) of the consumer credit act 1974.

 

The claimant claims the sum of 3XXX.XX