Advice needed please. Dealing with DCA and Debt

[Don Canard]

Hello all.

 

I'd really appreciate some help in dealing with a DCA First Credit.

 

The debt relates to a TSB credit card that I held back in 2004. I made a late payment and incurred a late payment fee which pushed me over my limit. So not only did I get a late payment fee, I got an over limit fee on top of that.

 

I rang TSB card people to protest that this was unfair. My son had just been killed, and as a result our world was upside down, consequently I paid late and got hit for two fee's. I had paid, but under the circumstances it was just a bit later than was usual. The individual that answered my phone call told me that "The fees were my punishment (his words) for paying late." Given that I knew nothing about how these things work, naively I insisted I would withold the monthly card payment until someone dealt fairly with me. Big mistake!

 

TSB simply added £50 a month onto to my card. £25 late payment, and a further £25 over limit, each and every month for several month. In the meantime my marriage failed and I moved into a flat.

When I contacted the TSB to sort this mess out they told me that it was now in the hands of the DCA First Credit, and so I made arrangements to pay them back monthly. I have been paying monthly for seven years now, and recently received a call from someone at first credit asking me to pay more each month as they have calculated that otherwise I will be 82 years of age before the debt is repaid.

 

What I would like to ask is this. Given that the original sum owed comprised several hundred pounds, (possibly over a thousand) of unfair charges, and I believe that such charges have since been considered excessive, is there any way I can have them removed from the debt? I have asked first credit for the actual accounting of the alleged debt so that I can see just what it is I'm being asked to repay, but all I received was a short letter telling me that they refer me to section 136 of the law of property.

 

Can anyone tell me please what it is I should do? I have been trying to educate myself by reading some of the threads on here, such as fighting back with CPUTR etc, but it appears that a certain level of knowledge is required even to understand the posts! I'm getting really depressed about this, all I wanted was fair play, but instead I appear to have been ensnared into spending the rest of my life paying for their wages.

[dx100uk]

what!!

 

all those fees are unlawful and reclaimable

 

stop paying these spoofers now.

 

they are a dca they have NO LEGAL POWERS

 

they are NOT bailiffs

 

opps looks like you've been a cash cowed for years

and 1st crapit have made a tidy profit to their pocket every payment.

 

bet it doesn't show on your CRA file either!

 

send an SAR to TSB

lets get the truth

 

dx

[silverfox1961]

Hi, welcome to CAG and Happy Christmas

 

You will need to get hold of all your credit card statements from the original creditor (if you don't have them)

To do this, you will have to send a SAR to LTSB asking for your data. This will cost £10. The letters are in the library (top left)

 

As this was a credit card, you were being charged interest on these charges and interest on the interest (Compounding). You can do the same with your reclaim. When you use a spreadsheet to work out how much they owe you, be prepared to be surprised.

 

As for Worst Credit. You tell them what you are going to pay, not them tell you. Once you put the charges reclaim in you can WRITE to 1st credit and tell them the account is in dispute and you will be withholding payments until the dispute is resolved.

[Don Canard]

Thank you for the welcome those replies. Merry Christmas to you too.

 

When I asked First Credit for a copy of the original agreement which authorises them to take this money from me they just quoted some law at me that says I couldn't have one. Then I asked for a copy of the original CCA and they say that they have contacted their client and are awaiting their response. They then went on to say;

 

"On receipt of the copy agreement we would expect you to contact this office immediately to arrange settlement of the debt."

 

I explained that I am in failing health, having had one kidney removed I now find the remaining one is failing. Due to the increasing cost of utility bills etc I am unable to pay them in full. I have to struggle to pay them their regular monthly payment which is only low to begin with. Am I to understand then that even though those statements are from 2002-04 I can still ask for copies by sending TSB ten pounds?

 

Also what is reclaim? How does that work? I'm sorry to sound so unwise but I have never had to deal with people like this before. The point I wanted to make to First Credit is that if the sum claimed is incorrect then I shouldn't be paying it back until the correct sum is established, but the day after I sent the email to them they took another payment by direct debit as usual.

[Don Canard]

Also I forgot to mention. First Credit regularly send me 'offers' where I can pay back half, less than half, or sometimes two thirds of the debt, and 'they will pay' the rest. I know that there is no rest to pay of course, it's just an early settlement offer. I have never been able to take them up on it as I haven't got the money, but I wondered how they can accept half the alleged debt as full settlement one day, then require all the lot on another day?

 

Finally, on the bottom of their letter it says PAY NOW online by debit or credit card. I might be thick, but surely an invitation to pay off a credit card debt by credit card is a highly dubious suggestion to put on the bottom of their letters?

[dx100uk]

you are being diddled

 

there is no debt to pay

 

check your CRA file

 

i bet this debt does not show

 

its what we call 'cash-cowing'

 

they contact people with a debt that the OC [original creditor'

has written off

then they make all these vailed threats about court etc

 

you start paying

then they up the anti - you pay more

 

and they keep you doing it.

 

they had no LEGAL RIGHT to collect the debt

 

you had no LEGAL obligation to pay it.

 

we dont use certain words as they can be deemed as libel

 

but if i was to say they have fleeced you on a SA>M

 

i think you might understand.

 

reclaiming...

trouble is i bet the 'fees' are more than 6yrs old now poss

 

dx

[PriorityOne]

Hello all.

 

I'd really appreciate some help in dealing with a DCA First Credit.

 

The debt relates to a TSB credit card that I held back in 2004. I made a late payment and incurred a late payment fee which pushed me over my limit. So not only did I get a late payment fee, I got an over limit fee on top of that.

 

I rang TSB card people to protest that this was unfair. My son had just been killed, and as a result our world was upside down, consequently I paid late and got hit for two fee's. I had paid, but under the circumstances it was just a bit later than was usual. The individual that answered my phone call told me that "The fees were my punishment (his words) for paying late." Given that I knew nothing about how these things work, naively I insisted I would withold the monthly card payment until someone dealt fairly with me. Big mistake!

 

TSB simply added £50 a month onto to my card. £25 late payment, and a further £25 over limit, each and every month for several month. In the meantime my marriage failed and I moved into a flat.

When I contacted the TSB to sort this mess out they told me that it was now in the hands of the DCA First Credit, and so I made arrangements to pay them back monthly. I have been paying monthly for seven years now, and recently received a call from someone at first credit asking me to pay more each month as they have calculated that otherwise I will be 82 years of age before the debt is repaid.

 

What I would like to ask is this. Given that the original sum owed comprised several hundred pounds, (possibly over a thousand) of unfair charges, and I believe that such charges have since been considered excessive, is there any way I can have them removed from the debt? I have asked first credit for the actual accounting of the alleged debt so that I can see just what it is I'm being asked to repay, but all I received was a short letter telling me that they refer me to section 136 of the law of property.

 

Can anyone tell me please what it is I should do? I have been trying to educate myself by reading some of the threads on here, such as fighting back with CPUTR etc, but it appears that a certain level of knowledge is required even to understand the posts! I'm getting really depressed about this, all I wanted was fair play, but instead I appear to have been ensnared into spending the rest of my life paying for their wages.

 

I am so very sorry to read of your son's passing.... The subsequent treatment you've received at the hands of these low lifes is horrendous. If you have been using the phone as a means of trying to deal wit this, please stop right now. By the sound of the drivel they've given you so far, they've bought this account.

 

Send a CCA request by recorded delivery and let's start over with this one. Keep everything in writing from now on and if they try and contact you, just hang up. You mentioned CPUTR being confusing. Please don't worry; it's my thread... In theory, we could write to them now using CPUTR but IMO, you need to place this account "in dispute" with a CCA request first.

 

[Don Canard]

Yes the fees will be over six years old as this debt relates to around 2003, and I have been paying it back to First Credit every month since 2004.

 

So I need to check my credit history? Then do I still need to get those bank statements if no debt shows, or only if one does? Does this mean I can stop the direct debit immediately? And if so what reason can I give First Credit for doing so? As I know nothing of the law I'm unsure how to reply to their legal threats and intimidating letters, which is how I ended up snared like this in the first place. Why do they refer to TSB as their 'clients' I wonder?

 

Sorry to ask so many questions but I didn't think such things were allowed in this day and age. What you describe is akin to Piracy. Over the past few years they have taken several hundreds of pounds off me in 'repayments'. Would First Credit have simply kept that money? I thought I was paying it back to TSB via them?

[PriorityOne]

Yes the fees will be over six years old as this debt relates to around 2003, and I have been paying it back to First Credit every month since 2004.

 

So I need to check my credit history? No point (IMO).... they've bought it. Then do I still need to get those bank statements if no debt shows, or only if one does? In time.... from the original creditor; not First Credit. Does this mean I can stop the direct debit immediately? If they fail to send you an enforceable CCA, yes. And if so what reason can I give First Credit for doing so? The account will be "in dispute"; they have no legal right to collect on it. As I know nothing of the law I'm unsure how to reply to their legal threats and intimidating letters, which is how I ended up snared like this in the first place. Just send the CCA request by rec. delivery.... Why do they refer to TSB as their 'clients' I wonder? To sound legally savvy.... it's cheap psychology, that's all.

 

Sorry to ask so many questions but I didn't think such things were allowed in this day and age. What you describe is akin to Piracy. Yes, I s'pose it is.... Over the past few years they have taken several hundreds of pounds off me in 'repayments'. Would First Credit have simply kept that money? Most definitely... I thought I was paying it back to TSB via them? Not if TSB have sold it, as I suspect they have because of FC's mention of the Law pf Property Act.

 

[Don Canard]

Thank you for those replies priorityOne.

 

I will send a CCA request to them asap. Is there a form for CCA's on this site, or perhaps an example of what I should write?

So if I'm clear on this, I now send a CCA by registered mail. I wait thirty? or so days, and if they have not complied I can then stop the direct debit and write to inform them that the account is in dispute.

 

If they do comply and send me some sort of credit agreement within the required time limit how will I know if it is enforceable or not? As you can see I have a lot to learn, but I'm really struggling to make ends meet now, and I'm embarrassed to say that I even thought of suicide the other day. But I refuse to be pushed into an early grave by people like this, to realise they have been proffiting from my misery is awful. The man on the phone seemed angry that I would be 82 before I had paid up, he didn't appear at all concerned at all that they would be leaching from me until I am 82 though. What bastards! (sorry).

[dx100uk]

CCA is 12+2 days

 

not got a credit card or debit card

you can do the CRA now for free

just cancel within 30days

 

details in my sig.

 

i see you're waking up the despicable tactics of these DCA's

 

they just DONT care HOW they get money

thats why you should NEVER EVER use the phone

 

they'll say ANYTHING to get you to pay, you cant prove they said it

hence the ABSOLUTE CRAP about the property act

 

dx

[PriorityOne]

Thank you for those replies priorityOne.

 

I will send a CCA request to them asap. Is there a form for CCA's on this site, or perhaps an example of what I should write? There is a CCA template in the Templates section, yes.

So if I'm clear on this, I now send a CCA by registered mail. Yes... I wait thirty? or so days, and if they have not complied I can then stop the direct debit and write to inform them that the account is in dispute. The time limit is 12 working days + 2 to allow for postage, although in reality the time scales are meaningless if they come up with one at a later date. Don't worry about this for now though as it's highly unlikely.

 

If they do comply and send me some sort of credit agreement within the required time limit how will I know if it is enforceable or not? You'll need to tell us if this happens and we can look at what they've sent.... As you can see I have a lot to learn, but I'm really struggling to make ends meet now, and I'm embarrassed to say that I even thought of suicide the other day. You're not the first and sadly, won't be the last either.... but you have people behind you now and together, we will get you through this... But I refuse to be pushed into an early grave by people like this, to realise they have been proffiting from my misery is awful. The man on the phone seemed angry that I would be 82 before I had paid up, he didn't appear at all concerned at all that they would be leaching from me until I am 82 though. Try and feel sorry for him instead..... 'coz doing a job like that is a direct route to Hell in my book.... What bastards! (sorry).

 

Personally, I wouldn't worry about getting hold of what's on your credit file either.... but each to their own.

[dx100uk]

you'll need the SAR if you've not got the statements for a poss reclaim

though it might be a tad diff as they tend to wriggle if the charges are outside 6yrs

though some do cough once court papers are served

 

as for the CCA request.

 

the agreement wont show you if the debt is SB'ed, the statement of account might though

but as these are often 'manipulated' by phanton Payments the DCA claims have been made to

hold the account inside SB date.

 

only the CRA will give you a good indication on that, outside 6yrs - it should not be showing.

dca very rarely put their neck in the noose by giving mis leading info to the CRA's

so there's no real need to argue the case of its un-en or not anyhow.

[PriorityOne]

. I have been paying monthly for seven years now, and recently received a call from someone at first credit asking me to pay more each month as they have calculated that otherwise I will be 82 years of age before the debt is repaid.

 

 

It's not stat-barred....

[Don Canard]

Exactly. My understanding is that it's not statute barred because I have been paying it off in good faith all these years, thus keeping the debt 'alive'.

 

What a fool they have taken me for! I've read so much about people trying to use loopholes to avoid paying their debts, but that isn't what I wanted to do. I did actually owe some of the money on the card but not all of it. Out of a sense of duty, and thinking that I was doing the right thing, I have attempted to repay what I believe I owed - only to become sucked into paying an amount I didn't owe and which will take the rest of my life to pay.

 

If as seems likely, First Credit did buy my debt, then the repayments I have made to them over the past seven years or so have more than covered their outlay by a factor of two or three. I am slowly going from incredulity to anger over this. To think that those people are living off vulnerable individuals like myself, and abusing the tendency that is in us that makes us wish to honour our debts. I don't want to break the law of course, but I'll be damned if they get another penny from me without a fight.

 

I have got the template from this site (many thanks to whoever provided it) and it will be posted just as soon as the post office returns to work. I will keep you all informed of what happens next. Do you know I'm going to go and sit down and have a drink of something quite strong now. I find it difficult to believe such parasites exist on the back of other peoples misery. Quite unbelievable, and a very sad indictment of our society.

 

Thank you all for your contributions and advice.

[dx100uk]

and i acked it too..

 

i was thinking it might be an idea to see if the payments HAVE been going off the debt by getting the CRA file.

 

more than once its been proved 1st crapit has pocketed the money and it has officially gone sb'ed in that time

because they have 'kept quiet' about the nice mug they've found

 

this usually coincides with the ever increasing pressure to pay more

in an attept to 'legitimise' their 'cash-cow's continued payment

there no way they will report to the cra's as the cash-cow will findout too

 

the give away here might by the property act crap.

 

if they had a CCA and they were legally able to take this money

they'd quote that, they haven't

 

time will tell

 

dx

[PriorityOne]

and i acked it too..

 

i was thinking it might be an idea to see if the payments HAVE been going off the debt by getting the CRA file.

 

more than once its been proved 1st crapit has pocketed the money and it has officially gone sb'ed in that time

because they have 'kept quiet' about the nice mug they've found

 

this usually coincides with the ever increasing pressure to pay more

in an attept to 'legitimise' their 'cash-cow's continued payment

there no way they will report to the cra's as the cash-cow will findout too

 

the give away here might by the property act crap.

 

if they had a CCA and they were legally able to take this money

they'd quote that, they haven't

 

time will tell

 

dx

 

Fair point BUT this money cannot be re-claimed..... that's why I don't personally see getting hold of a CRA file as serving any real purpose. Each to their own though, as said.

[Don Canard]

Yes I take both points, thank you. Being new at this I will do it step by step, so the CCA request will go in first (today if possible) and let's hear what they have to say. I'll then do a CRA check once I've had their reply in order to varify their actions.

 

They have always sent me annual statements showing the amounts I have paid and indicating the amount still left to pay, so it would be very interesting to find that they had omitted to inform the CRA about this. Anyway, like I say I'll go one step at a time as it's all still a learning experience for me.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi, Arrangements to pay are not always reported

on CRA files or they are reported on only 1 of the

3 main agencies, it is perogative of the creditor/DCA.

[Don Canard]

Thank you. I'm learning.

 

I have just changed my telephone number so there should be no more harassment calls from them, it's all going to be done in writing/registered post from this point on. As I see it the first major obstacle is to check whether or not First Credit have legitimacy in collecting this debt, regardless of who they have reported it to. For me that simplifies matters. They have either to prove their entitlement to continue to fleece me, or I stop paying and have no need to concern myself further with their threats.

 

I'm not trying to reclaim any money from them, I simply don't want to pay any more to them unless it is proved to be lawful. As the figure given/sold over to them by the bank is now in dispute I just wondered where that puts them regarding their ability to proceed? Furthermore, who do I take up the disputed figures with? If the bank has sold the debt, it has sold a debt that is over and above that which it should have been, and therefore (to my way of thinking) can't be collected. Also if the bank did sell the debt several years ago, would there be any point in speaking to the bank other than to request statements to varify the error?

[PriorityOne]

 

I'm not trying to reclaim any money from them, I simply don't want to pay any more to them unless it is proved to be lawful. As the figure given/sold over to them by the bank is now in dispute I just wondered where that puts them regarding their ability to proceed? Up the swanny without a paddle providing you respond to correspondence and don't ignore things (should they be persistent, that is).... Furthermore, who do I take up the disputed figures with? Ultimately, with the original creditor.... if you wish to go down this route. Some people are just happy to get rid of the DCA problem. If the bank has sold the debt, it has sold a debt that is over and above that which it should have been, and therefore (to my way of thinking) can't be collected. The assignment would be inaccurate and therefore, unlawful. Also if the bank did sell the debt several years ago, would there be any point in speaking to the bank other than to request statements to varify the error? None whatsoever.

 

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

CCA request to 1st credit if not already done, they

may well produce a recon agreement but it's worth trying,

us the letter from the CAG library.

Start it I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOU OR

ANY COMPANY YOU MAY CLAIM TO REPRESENT, send £1

postal order (unsigned, and marked for statutory CCA fee only)

address to the Compliance Manager at 1st Credit.

[Don Canard]

Hi all, just an update on how things were going regarding First Credit and the CCA request I sent them.

 

Well first of all I used the request template from this site, sent the one pound fee as a postal order made out as advised above, and then I waited. I posted the letter to them (1st class recorded) on the 27th December, which means the 12 days plus two have now elapsed but I've had no reply.

 

What is my position now? Do I wait a little longer for their reply or is there perhaps a follow up letter that I should hit them with? I have already cancelled the Direct debit payment as it was due to go out on the 21st, I thought they might have answered me before now.

[dx100uk]

opps you've found them out.

 

dx

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Account now in d.ispute, send the letter