Cap1 & CCA return

[ladybird17]

oh gosh no - we mustn't take on those big scary banks, must we?

[un1boy]

I have just dug out my Egg Card Agreement I was sent as part of my DPA request......

 

It is signed and dated by both of us.

 

There is no cancellation statement at all. (It is dated April 2004)

 

With regards to the prescribed terms it has the following:

Limit: "We will tell you from time to time the Approved Limit we have set and, if different the individual Limit which you have chosen for the Account

 

Ok so that does that cover the "Limit" one?

 

Interest and Credit Charges:

 

We will charge interest - on Purchases and Transferred Balances put on the Account until 1 October xxx at a monthly rate of xxx% xxx% APR: and otherwise at a monthly rate of xxx% and xxx% APR.

 

Unless you are an Existing Egg Customer, we charge a handlign fee of 1.25% of the amount of each Cash Advance (minimum fee £2.00) The APR for cash advances is 16.3%.

 

We will charge interest on Promotional Balances at the interest rates and for the period we advise you of in the details of the Special Promotion.

 

You can find up-to-date information on interesst rates by looking o our website. You can also see on statement the interest rate which has been applied where interest is being charged. In workng out APRs, we have ignored any changes we may make to the interest ratesm handling fees or any other charges which we introduce or vary at any time by giving you notice under condition 12.

 

I guess this satisfys the interest prescribed term?

 

And, lastly:

 

 

Repayments: Each month you must pay by direct debit, at least the minimum payment given in your statement. The minimum payment will be:

 

- the full Revolving Balance if it is less than £5, but otherwise the greater of 2% of the Revolving balance and £5.

 

Plus for each Transferred Balance:

 

- the full amount of the Transferred Balance if it is less than £5, but otherwise the greater of 2% of the Transferred Balance and $5.

 

We will collect the amount you tell us you want to repay so that it is paid into the Account on the Payment Date

 

I am guessing this satisfys the repayment term.

 

Other than that, it has the "regulated under" statement and that's about it.

 

**Is it missing the amount of credit term?**

 

I could really do with some comments about this agreement!!

 

Cheers

[un1boy]

oh gosh no - we mustn't take on those big scary banks, must we?

 

No, no - let's leave it up to the consumers, eh?

[ladybird17]

just got my Egg agreement out and it looks exactly same as yours Un1 - mine's Nov. 2004.

 

So we shall await comments with baited breath....come on Pam, get up!!

[un1boy]

just got my Egg agreement out and it looks exactly same as yours Un1 - mine's Nov. 2004.

 

So we shall await comments with baited breath....come on Pam, get up!!

 

Interesting...

 

My first thoughts are that it does not have the credit limit prescribed term and is therefore unenforcable, even at the courts....but I would just like some clarification on it.

 

Ladybird, did they send u the T&C's and a statement of account? Or were u sent urs as part of a DPA request?

 

(Morning By the way! )

[Guest Battleaxe]

I have just spoken with a police sergeant who said that if the police did investigate any banking institution for any criminal offence the CPS probably wouldn't take it on, because they wouldn't want to take on the banking industry!!

 

Scandalous!!!

 

This is the reply I got from the CPS when I made my complaint, well not about taking taking the banking industry on, but this is not a high priority with limited staff to prosecute more IMPORTANT crime.

[ladybird17]

Morning Un1 - gosh - such undivided attention;)

 

My Egg agreement is the one I got when I took out the card - presumably I got the T & C's - although I can't be sure. Regrettably, it's that sort of stuff I (used) to throw away. I'm going to have a hunt in my filing cabinet & see if there's any T & C's there.

[InKogneeToh]

I have just dug out my Egg Card Agreement I was sent as part of my DPA request......

 

It is signed and dated by both of us.

 

There is no cancellation statement at all. (It is dated April 2004)

 

With regards to the prescribed terms it has the following:

 

 

Ok so that does that cover the "Limit" one?

 

 

 

I guess this satisfys the interest prescribed term?

 

And, lastly:

 

 

 

I am guessing this satisfys the repayment term.

 

Other than that, it has the "regulated under" statement and that's about it.

 

**Is it missing the amount of credit term?**

 

I could really do with some comments about this agreement!!

 

Cheers

 

Hi

 

A statement saying how they will determine the credit limit and notify you is allowed, so does comply.

 

Egg and CitiCard seem to me the only CC providers who issue anything like a 'real' agreement.

 

Also, my Egg CC was taken in 2001 and had no cancellation rights. But a CC agreement can be effectively cancelled at the start anyway by just not using the card!

 

Regards, Pam

[un1boy]

This is the reply I got from the CPS when I made my complaint, well not about taking taking the banking industry on, but this is not a high priority with limited staff to prosecute more IMPORTANT crime.

 

Have u referred their respionse to your MP etc Battleaxe??

[un1boy]

Morning Un1 - gosh - such undivided attention;)

 

My Egg agreement is the one I got when I took out the card - presumably I got the T & C's - although I can't be sure. Regrettably, it's that sort of stuff I (used) to throw away. I'm going to have a hunt in my filing cabinet & see if there's any T & C's there.

 

ok, well good luck finding it!!!

[un1boy]

Hi

 

A statement saying how they will determine the credit limit and notify you is allowed, so does comply.

 

Egg and CitiCard seem to me the only CC providers who issue anything like a 'real' agreement.

 

Also, my Egg CC was taken in 2001 and had no cancellation rights. But a CC agreement can be effectively cancelled at the start anyway by just not using the card!

 

Regards, Pam

 

Ok, so my agreement is enforcable, damn it!

 

I will do a sec 78 request anyway - because I don't think they will be able to supply the T&C's. I could do with claiming my charges back , but they close the account -so, i could claim back carges and then do a sec 78 request.....if they don't provide the T&C's etc then I won't have to pay them back within 30 days like they will want and that will bide me some time!!!

 

Yes, Egg do seem to have been thorough, don't they?

 

Which, beggers the question - if they can do things right, how come the others haven't??

 

I wonder if this could be used as an argument in a claim to say that the others have deliberately not used proper agreements?

[InKogneeToh]

just got my Egg agreement out and it looks exactly same as yours Un1 - mine's Nov. 2004.

 

So we shall await comments with baited breath....come on Pam, get up!!

 

Hi LB

 

If I'm reading the following regs. correctly, then your agreement should have had cancellation rights. The Regs. came into force 31/10/2004 and has the following transitional provisions:

 

The Financial Services (Distance Marketing) Regulations 2004

 

Transitional provisions

29. - (1) In relation to any contract made before 31st May 2005 which is a consumer credit agreement within the meaning of the 1974 Act and a regulated agreement within the meaning of that Act -

 

(a) regulations 7, 8, 10 and 11 apply subject to the modifications in paragraphs (2) to (5); and

 

(b) references in these Regulations to regulations 7, 8, 10 and 11 or to provisions contained in them shall be construed accordingly.

 

Regards, Pam

[ladybird17]

Thanks Pam, you're a gem, that will make a little light reading over the Easter break!!

[joneshousehold]

If anyone is not sure about the correct contents of an agreement, the best place to look is the OFT guidelines for cancellable and non cancellable agreements. I think there is also an updated version for the later regulations such as the Distance Marketing ones quoted by Pam

[Guest Battleaxe]

Have u referred their respionse to your MP etc Battleaxe??

 

Oh yes and he says the bank have every right to act the way they do. I am paraphrasing him. he has declared interests in several banks. This why I started the thread 'I know where my MP stands'. I have kept his letter for historical reference.

[maybelline]

BBC NEWS | Programmes | Moneybox | Court bid for bank charge ruling

 

sorry to interrpt, this barrister is taking on natwest

[ladybird17]

yes it's being discussed all over the site! Just been on the news on TV.

[Peterbard]

HI

I am sure that someone else has aleady noticed this but anagreement can be made unenforceablle bythe lack of correct cancellation details via 127(4). I think the rules on what information should be provided needs looking into,I seem to remember reading somewhere that if an agreement isn't cancellable it shoud say so if this is true then wouldn't it make an agreement that said nothing unenforceable.

 

Found it

127(4) precludes the making of an enforcement order if certain provisions relating to cancellation were not complied with.

A job For Pam the Spotter or is it spotty Pam, never can remember.

 

Regards

Peter

[ian1969uk]

In terms of these Egg agreements, I have one just the same. What about the bit I have highlighted in red which is certainly not on these agreements:

 

 

 

What the agreement must contain

 

 

1 A heading in one of the following forms of words shown prominently on the first

 

page:

 

Hire-Purchase Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

or

 

Conditional Sale Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

or

 

 

 

, in any other case,

 

Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Where the document embodies an agreement, of which at least one part is a credit

agreement not regulated by the Act, the word ‘partly’ must be inserted before

‘regulated’ in the heading – unless the regulated and unregulated parts of the

agreement can be clearly seen to be separate.

 

2 The name and a postal address of both trader and customer.

 

3 A description (in sufficient detail to identify it) of any security to be provided by the

customer and a description of its subject matter. The description must be in the

main agreement, but the full terms can be in a separate document referred to in

the main agreement.

 

4 Details of any default charges which the customer or a relative of his is required to

pay if he breaches the agreement.

 

 

5 Certain financial and related particulars (see below).

 

6 Statements of certain protection and remedies provided for the customer by the

Act (see page 12).

 

 

7 A signature box (see page 14)

 

 

 

 

 

[ncf355]

 

..........

I assume you have a link to the OFT non-cancellable agreements guidelines so that you can check the rest of the documentation. If not just let me know and I will post the link again

..........

 

 

Hi JH,

 

any chance you could re post that, I'd beinterested in having a look

 

Thanks

 

NcF

[ian1969uk]

Cancellable agreements

 

Non-cancellable agreements

[ncf355]

Cheers!

 

[davefirewalker]

Hi Joneshousehold re the "document" three pages long, Ive just answered my own question. (suprising what a little study of the regs can bring)

 

see below it makes reference to "first page" it follows that there can be more than one ....

 

but in reading that it also says that the heading must contain one of the following....

 

mine doesnt it says "fixed-sum loan agreement regulated....etc"

Not looking for a "get out" but I'm arguing over missold PPI and if I can get ANY lever to make them see sense then I will use it

 

Dave

 

What the agreement must contain

1 A heading in one of the following forms of words shown prominently on the first page:

Hire-Purchase Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

or

Conditional Sale Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

or, in any other case,

Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Where the document embodies an agreement, of which at least one part is a credit

agreement not regulated by the Act, the word ‘partly’ must be inserted before

‘regulated’ in the heading – unless the regulated and unregulated parts of the

agreement can be clearly seen to be separate.

[joneshousehold]

Dave there have been some changes in the regulations about the headings. I know credit cards have changed to something like 'Credit Card Agreement regulated under....' so this may be correct. (sorry!)

 

Keep looking though, a close scrutiny is required.

[InKogneeToh]

re the "document" three pages long, Ive just answered my own question. (suprising what a little study of the regs can bring)

 

see below it makes reference to "first page" it follows that there can be more than one ....

 

 

Hi

 

But it also says that some terms must be in the 'signature' document so there is still a chance that this means that if there is more than one page to the 'document' then these terms must be on the same page as your signature.

 

I think the only way to find out is to take a trip to a library with a good law reference section and look up the original 1983 Agreement Regs. Unfortunately I have been unable to find these on the web!

 

Regards, Pam