Cap1 & CCA return

[Scrappy01]

I can't read them, if thats what they are.......... All I can read is that it says Credit Agreement regulated byt the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I did get a set of T&C's with it, which are legible.

[shane5408]

Here's the agreement........

 

Typical barclaycard application form, no prescribed terms are evident and parts of it are illegible.

 

Is this al they sent or were there any t&c's sent as well? Did they send a statement of account?

 

kind regards,

shane

[Scrappy01]

Typical barclaycard application form, no prescribed terms are evident and parts of it are illegible.

 

Is this al they sent or were there any t&c's sent as well? Did they send a statement of account?

 

kind regards,

shane

 

Hi Shane

 

I did get a copy of T&C's but no statement of account, but then the account is closed and I'm just after removal of a default.

 

Thanks

 

Anita

[shane5408]

Hi Shane

 

I did get a copy of T&C's but no statement of account, but then the account is closed and I'm just after removal of a default.

 

Thanks

 

Anita

 

Hiya,

 

when you say account is closed is there still a balance due or is payed off?

 

With regard to the default were there any charges on the account, if so I would send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to BC to ascertain the total of these. A S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) should also furnish you with a copy of any default notice sent. You can use precedent set in recent case law Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co to have any default notice voided and subsequently removed it is mis stated the 'sum due' to remedy the breach, ie if this sum included unlawful penalty charges.

 

kind regards,

shane

 

I've attached a copy of the case as well for anyone who's interested

Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co.pdf

[Scrappy01]

Hi,

 

Well if they stated that they are simply wrong, the omissions in the Regs allow for the creditors to omit the debtors signature not their own for this type of agreement

 

they are allowed to substantiate a signature in the form of a rubber stamp however IMO

 

kind regards,

shane

 

Is this the part you mean Shane:

 

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed

agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of the signature by the debtor of an

agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

[shane5408]

Is this the part you mean Shane:

 

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed

agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of the signature by the debtor of an

agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

 

hi,

 

yes it is, in order to supply a 'true copy' which the regulations deem every copy the creditor supplies must be they can omit the debtors signature

 

regards,

shane

[Scrappy01]

Hiya,

 

when you say account is closed is there still a balance due or is payed off?

 

With regard to the default were there any charges on the account, if so I would send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to BC to ascertain the total of these. A S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) should also furnish you with a copy of any default notice sent. You can use precedent set in recent case law Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co to have any default notice voided and subsequently removed it is mis stated the 'sum due' to remedy the breach, ie if this sum included unlawful penalty charges.

 

kind regards,

shane

 

I've attached a copy of the case as well for anyone who's interested

 

Hi Shane

 

Its completly paid off and closed. There was £30 of charges and the 8% intrest worked out to be about £15.

 

I got a copy of the default but its incomplete. I know where I'm heading with the default notice. I kept that until they'd come back to me on the application form.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

But remeber....

 

No perscribed terms on the agreement= unenforcable debt simple as that.

 

HAK

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hiya,

 

when you say account is closed is there still a balance due or is payed off?

 

With regard to the default were there any charges on the account, if so I would send a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to BC to ascertain the total of these. A S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) should also furnish you with a copy of any default notice sent. You can use precedent set in recent case law Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain and Co to have any default notice voided and subsequently removed it is mis stated the 'sum due' to remedy the breach, ie if this sum included unlawful penalty charges.

 

kind regards,

shane

 

I've attached a copy of the case as well for anyone who's interested

 

Shane is this correct as all my defaults have penalty charges in them.

[Scrappy01]

But remeber....

 

No perscribed terms on the agreement= unenforcable debt simple as that.

 

HAK

 

What is they were on the back of the original application form? Would this still count?

[shane5408]

Shane is this correct as all my defaults have penalty charges in them.

 

 

Hi HAK,

 

I've yet to test it in court, hopefully in the next month or so if creditors don't fold (incidentally I'm hoping they don't so I can get a juge's opinion on it!)

 

It is precedent set in court of appeal which is binding on all lower courts.

 

I would keep an eye of Paul's thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/93571-pt2537s-cca-request-against.html as he's currently thinking up POC's on the subject with the intention to file a claim against littlewoods

 

kind regards,

shane

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Possible.

 

Grey area, are they?

[Scrappy01]

Am I reading this wrong.... I've read so much, my head is spinning....

 

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of the signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

This means to me that they cannot miss off my signature when they send me a copy. No mention of the banks singnature.

 

If I'm wrong can someone please explain.

[Having_A_Knightmare]

This argument has gone on and on and nobody can work out why it is in the 1983 docs.

 

Bottom line is if its not on the agreement and it looks like it was never there you are OK as the original one has to be produced in Court.

 

I would be more inclined to go down the unreadable copy road.

 

HAK

[shane5408]

Am I reading this wrong.... I've read so much, my head is spinning....

 

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of the signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

This means to me that they cannot miss off my signature when they send me a copy. No mention of the banks singnature.

 

If I'm wrong can someone please explain.

 

Hiya,

 

yes this is what i was referring to in my earlier post, they can omit the debtors signature but not their (creditor) own for the purposes of a sec 78 request.

 

The question is does a rubber stamp constitute a valid means of executing the agreement on behalf of the creditor. IMO it can in certain circumstances, i've done some research into this, will post some more on the subject whe i get some spare time.

 

kind regards,

shane

[car2403]

Don't agree with any of this

 

When it quite clearly has a space for the signature, that is the execution on the part of the creditor and I would stand up in any court behind that

 

Also S61(1)(a) requires that it is "signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and BY OR ON BEHALF OF THE CREDITOR

 

This needs to be by a person, they have now way around this, and I for one would LOVE to see them try and argue it in court

 

In fact, next March I will get that chance

 

 

Oh, don't get me wrong - I totally agree with you. I'm just saying that Peter/Tomterm had to agree to disagree on a thread of mine, so it may not stand up in Court - but it might just do that...

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Car

 

Whats the thread

 

HAK

[car2403]

Car

 

Whats the thread

 

HAK

 

From post #88 on my HFC Bank thread, here's the link;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/110146-car2403-hfc-bank-default-5.html#post1215608

[Scrappy01]

Hiya,

 

yes this is what i was referring to in my earlier post, they can omit the debtors signature but not their (creditor) own for the purposes of a sec 78 request.

 

The question is does a rubber stamp constitute a valid means of executing the agreement on behalf of the creditor. IMO it can in certain circumstances, i've done some research into this, will post some more on the subject whe i get some spare time.

 

kind regards,

shane

 

Thanks Shane. I'm going to write my letter in reply tonight. I think I have everything I need now.

 

Thanks everyone!

[shane5408]

Thanks Shane. I'm going to write my letter in reply tonight. I think I have everything I need now.

 

Thanks everyone!

 

 

Hi Anita,

 

I wouldn't concentrate to much on proving they have failed to satisfy their obligations of a CCA Request as the account is fully paid off. Technically speaking a CCA request need only be complied with if there is a balance due to the creditor.

 

kind regards,

shane

[Scrappy01]

Hi Anita,

 

I wouldn't concentrate to much on proving they have failed to satisfy their obligations of a CCA Request as the account is fully paid off. Technically speaking a CCA request need only be complied with if there is a balance due to the creditor.

 

kind regards,

shane

 

Well they seem to think there is an outstanding balance on the account. In their letter they said "therefore the bank considers your outstanding debt on the above account for which you have had the benefit of credit blah blah blah". It is actually even marked as satisfied on my credit files.

 

While they can't be bothered to check the account I feel I should point out their wrongs.

 

I don't want to say to them there is no debt as I don't want them to turn round and say they have no obligations to provide me with the documents and I'm basing my default removal on these documents.

 

Not sure how else to progress otherwise...........

[shane5408]

Well they seem to think there is an outstanding balance on the account. In their letter they said "therefore the bank considers your outstanding debt on the above account for which you have had the benefit of credit blah blah blah". It is actually even marked as satisfied on my credit files.

 

While they can't be bothered to check the account I feel I should point out their wrongs.

 

I don't want to say to them there is no debt as I don't want them to turn round and say they have no obligations to provide me with the documents and I'm basing my default removal on these documents.

 

Not sure how else to progress otherwise...........

 

Hiya,

 

sorry must have mis read, if they claim they are still owed a balance then yes by all means go down the CCA route.

 

With regard to the default notice i would suggest sending a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) this should give you sight of any default they may of sent, if they can provide it, you can then check and make sure it is compliant with the Regs.

 

regards,

shane

[Scrappy01]

Hiya,

 

sorry must have mis read, if they claim they are still owed a balance then yes by all means go down the CCA route.

 

With regard to the default notice i would suggest sending a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) this should give you sight of an default they may of sent, if they can provide it, you can then check and make sure it is compliant with the Regs.

 

regards,

shane

 

Sorry, you haven't mis read. I have paid up, balance clear in 2004. They say in the last letter I owe them money but I know I don't. I feel its a standard letter. My credit file says settled and whilst they are stupid enough not to look at my account history I'm going to point out their wrong doings. It boils my wee to see that they just can't be bothered to check my account and write a "non" standard letter.

 

I did get half my default notice..... there seems to be loads missing......... its not in the perscribed format.

 

So I have 2 things to pull them up on plus whatever else I can find....

[IIIUMINATI]

Can any one provide a copy of a fully executied agreement that has been provided by the crediitor and used in court .

[Scrappy01]

Going back to a previous post about my illegible BarclayCard "agreement" (application form), I've been trying read up about the legibility thing. Is this worth mentioning? There seems to be various points on here why its not a good idea to bring it up?