Cap1 & CCA return

[rory32]

Thanks Ian,

That had been bugging me. I knew there was something not quite right with it but couldn't put my finger on what exactly.

[BLADES65]

Following on fromk my recent post and the illegible CCA request from 1st Credit/MBNA could you give your opinions on the letter I am about to send requesting they fulfil their obligations under CCA 1974.:

 

xxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxx

xxxxxxxx

4th July 2007

 

First Credit Limited

Enterprise House

Bancroft Road

Reigate

Surrey. RH2 7RP

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Account/Reference Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

I refer to my letter dated 4th May 2007 which was delivered via Recorded Delivery to your offices 9th May 2007.

 

You have failed to acknowledge this request by supplying the requested documents. The documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account.

On 1st June 2007 an illegible A4 sheet was delivered by post along with a 1st Credit compliment slip.

 

In my letter of the 4th May 2007 I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Section 77(1) and Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act.

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, your company commit an offence. These time limits expired on 24th May 2007 and will expire 25th June 2007 respectively.

 

As you are no doubt aware, Section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore on 24th May 2007 this account became unenforceable at law and no further payment will be made by myself to the account, as you have failed to comply with a request for a true signed copy of the said agreement, and other relevant documents mentioned in it, and failed to send a full statement of the account, under the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Further, I do not acknowledge any debt to 1st Credit and or MBNA.

 

 

I look forward to your reply within 14 days to resolve the matter amicably.

Yours Sincerely

Mr xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thanks.

[Peterbard]

Hi

Prescribed terms for credit cards for unenforceability under section 61(1)a and section 127 (3)are:

The credit limit or a term expressing the manner it will be established or the fact there is no credit limit.

The Interest rate; a term expressing the interest rate on the agreement

Repayments: A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a

Combination of any of the following-

(a) number of repayments;

(b) amount of repayments;

© frequency and timing of repayments;

(d) dates of repayments;

(e) the manner in which any of the above may be

determined;

or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to

vary what is payable.

 

And the debtors signature of course

 

I think your agreement has all of these so the unenforce ablilty aspect is unlikely. I noticed there is no cancellation details.

Is this because my eyes arnt what they used to be or was it signed at home with no prior face to face contact(Anticedent negotiations).

Even so usually they give you some form of cancellation rights.

 

As mentioned before thier is not even the pretention of adhering to the matters of form as required in the 1553 regulations so you could contest it and they would have to get an order from the court to enforce.

You may get the debt modified if your lucky. You pays your money and takes your chance i am afraid

 

Best regrds

peter

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

When referring to previous corre/docs (both their & yours) include copies

[voyager9]

hi could anyone have a look at my thread i need advice on a possible letter

 

thanks voyager9

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/96232-voyager9-jd-williams.html

[ncf355]

I would say interest + contractual interest on that interest

 

Depending on how long ago you had your last card, this could be quite a sum!

 

Plus report them to TS, OFT, Etc for not following the CCA 1974

[kfdh1962]

I would say interest + contractual interest on that interest

 

Depending on how long ago you had your last card, this could be quite a sum!

 

Plus report them to TS, OFT, Etc for not following the CCA 1974

 

the TS, OFT complaints, are these done on line or in writing?

 

i am about to do this with capquest

[BLADES65]

Hi all,

 

Another Application form received after CCA request. This time from HFC for a GM Card. This is the original leaflet I picked up in the Vauxhall garage.

 

Single sided A4 sheet with last 6 statements in envelope.

 

This is the A4 sheet:

 

 

 

Thoughts please

 

Thanks

[ncf355]

kfdh1962 vbmenu_register("postmenu_891118", true); :

 

 

TS unfortunately needs to be via consumer direct:

 

Consumer Direct - Contact us

 

If they do with you and just tell you they have passed the details to a regional TS, they will gicve you a ref - ring them with the ref and ask them to tell you where they have sent it and an appropriate contact for that area

 

I was told by the CD person that the criminal element of this offence isnt down to TS and advised to go to FSA - this is bull, their obligation is under the CCA 1974, and I quote:

 

"

Enforcement authorities.

 

161.--(1) The following authorities (enforcement authorities) have a duty to enforce

this Act and regulations made under it--

(a) the Director,

(b) in Great Britain, the local weights and measures authority,

© in Northern Ireland, the Department of Commerce for Northern Ireland.

(2) Where a local weights and measures authority in England or Wales propose to

institute proceedings for an offence under this Act (other than an offence under section 162(6), 165(1) or (2) or 174(5)) it shall, as between the authority and the Director, be the duty of the authority to give the Director notice of the intended proceedings, together with a summary of the facts on which the charges are to be founded, and postpone institution of the proceedings until either--

(a) 28 days have expired since that notice was given, or

(b) the Director has notified them of receipt of the notice and summary.

(3) Every local weights and measures authority shall, whenever the Director requires, report to him in such form and with such particulars as he requires on the exercise of their functions under this Act."

 

For clarity - Local weights and measures = Trading Standards

 

So dont let them try and fob you off

 

 

OFT:

 

 

[email protected]

 

Best of luck

[ncf355]

Blades:

 

recommend you remove the application number from that can and re post it!!

[BLADES65]

Blades:

 

recommend you remove the application number from that can and re post it!!

 

Done

[Peterbard]

Hi

There was just 14 convictions made under the CCA last year between 1st April 2005 and 31st March 2006 for fines totalling £9050 plus 4 cases of imrisonment and 1 community service order. None of these were for contravening the copy of cocuments regulationsper section 180.

 

Peter

 

 

Peter

[lookinforinfo]

Cocuments? Is that a kind of cock up?

 

I am surprised that there have been no convictions for failing to comply with

the CCA in the light of so many occurrences on this forum alone. I imagine

that some companies would have the common sense to come to an agreement say to write off the debt in return for not being reported.

 

On the other hand, it does seem a bit over the top to find that not only is

the debt unenforceable, but have to face a stiff fine and a criminal record

to boot.

[Peterbard]

Cocuments? Is that a kind of cock up?

 

I am surprised that there have been no convictions for failing to comply with

the CCA in the light of so many occurrences on this forum alone. I imagine

that some companies would have the common sense to come to an agreement say to write off the debt in return for not being reported.

 

On the other hand, it does seem a bit over the top to find that not only is

the debt unenforceable, but have to face a stiff fine and a criminal record

to boot.

 

HI

Are you taking over for Pam

OK my typing has never ben any good and my fingers do make the occasional freudian slip as in cocument meaning cocked up document.

 

I think they should be banged up if they ignore the law and continue to harrass people whilst they are in default.

 

It is easy enough to remedy all they have to do is comply or if they can't say so.

 

Most of the convictions are for opperating without a Credit Liscence and Canvassing for loans

 

More info here The Office of Fair Trading: Annual Report

 

Have a look at the Oblectives particularly 1 and 4 for this year might be worth including something from their in the complaint letter to the DTI.

 

Best regards

Peter

[BLADES65]

Draft of letter in response to receipt of application for above.

 

Is this ok or should I put in something about not acknowledgeing the debt.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxx

Litigation Advisor

HFC Bank

PO Box 4716

Camden House West

Birmingham

B1 3RD

 

Dear Madam

 

Re: Account/Reference Number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for the information you sent following my request under the CCA 1974.

 

However, I made a request to you on 4th May 2007 for a copy of the executed agreement applicable to the alleged debt. Under the CCA s77/78, you are obliged to send me a true copy of my executed agreement but have only sent me a copy of the initial application form and some recent statements.

 

A regulated credit agreement contains all of the prescribed terms, other required information and statements of my statutory rights. Any separate terms and conditions (which should have been referred to in the original agreement) should also be provided to me and must be those applicable at the time that the agreement was signed.

 

I would therefore be obliged if you would send me a true copy of these documents as soon as possible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mr xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[lookinforinfo]

Why are you telling them-they already know.

Are you not better just letting them think they have fooled you until the

allotted time has expired?

If you are going to write then advise them that as they are obviously aware

that an application form is not an executed agreement, you can only assume

that they deliberately tried to mislead you. As the OFT takes the view that

this would call into question their fitness to hold a Consumer Credit

Licence, ask them to explain why the wrong document was sent.

[the main man]

Hi all,

 

Just wondered if anyone would like to look at the letter I got from Capital one, who obviously prefer to dig holes for a living than comply with a CCA request.

 

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/Themainman_bucket/CAP1CCALETTER.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/Themainman_bucket/CAP1APPLICATION.jpg

[url=http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/Themainman_bucket/CAP1APPLICATION.jpg][/url]

[rory32]

And the point of these letters are?

[pford]

Hi all,

 

Just wondered if anyone would like to look at the letter I got from Capital one, who obviously prefer to dig holes for a living than comply with a CCA request.

 

 

they are trying to have a laugh.

 

application form

noun

1. a form to use when making an application

says it quite plain in their letter and on the Short Application Form

[BLADES65]

Whats the concensus on what the course of action is after just receiving an application form after a CCa request.

 

Do we write and tell them or wait till the 12+2 + 30 days?

 

Could they try and take action as we have stopped paying and they think they have fulfilled their obligations.

[rory32]

I don't think they actually think they have fulfilled their obligations in any way. They are just hopiing that you will.

 

Personally I wouldn't bother telling them until the offence is committed. They should be aware of their obligations, it is not for you to constantly remind them.

[pford]

Whats the concensus on what the course of action is after just receiving an application form after a CCa request.

 

Do we write and tell them or wait till the 12+2 + 30 days?

 

Could they try and take action as we have stopped paying and they think they have fulfilled their obligations.

 

 

Have a read here few letters on this thread that will be of help

 

Consumer Credit Act - Resources Workshop

[the main man]

they are trying to have a laugh.

 

application form

noun

1. a form to use when making an application

says it quite plain in their letter and on the Short Application Form

 

Thanks for the response, just thought I would post it in relation to Lookingforinfo's post about them trying to mis-lead you and there ability to hold a credit license!

[pford]

Need a bit of help here now just received, Experian Consumer Help Service CAIS Query Form. The one they send their clients to confirm the details of the dispute.

It has been signed RD of HBOS to confirm the details they hold are correct. Thing is

 

My name

My address

Not my date of birth

Two different account opening days one from Experian 1990 and one from the Halifax which was sent to me in a letter last month 1998.

 

 

Even got letter of the Halifax can’t find any such credit agreement. Which Experian have they still won’t remove it

 

 

What now

 

ps just noticed Experian also hold account numbers as well on the query form they sent me

[Peterbard]

HI

Another appraoach when supplied with these agreements that are never in a million years going to be able to be enforced is to accept them as a true copy and say thank you .

Then inform them that tthe agreement that they say is a true copy of the orriginal is unenforceable and you therefor will not be making any further payments on it.

They have said it is the true copy so they cannot say they have another that has different details on it so you are acting in good faith on information they have provided.

This will not of course stop them using any means to harras you into paying but they woould not be able to pursue it through the court.

It would then be up to you to use the Harressment act or the Admin of Justce on them.

This does seem to be taking the bull by the horns but it is something that you are going to have to do in the end anyway and you will have the pleasure of using their Mikey mouse response to your application against them.

I think this could be a better alternative than just keeping them constantly in default and hoping the don't come up with a correctly executed copy at some time in the future.

 

 

Best regards

Peter

Regards

Petr