Fictitious amount on claim form

[palemm]

I have received a claim form from Arrow Global for an old bank Account which I stopped using in 2005 and appears to have been sold to Arrow Global in 2006 (date of Default) the POC reads.

 

1.The claim is for the sum of £1xxx.xx in respect of monies owing by the defendant on a credit agreement held by the defendant etc.. etc..

 

2.A default notice was served upon the defendant and has not been complied with.

 

Firstly the amount is wrong and about £500 over what is was in 2005 when the account was closed secondly this account did not have an overdraft facility and the money is owing is pure bank charges for bounced dd's and so forth, so should I contest all of the claim quoting unfair bank charges or part of the claim ?

 

I do have a credit statement from 2005 showing the amount owed should I use this as my defence or get Arrow global to supply the proof to back up their claim.

 

I have to post my Acknowledgement of service tomorrow as I'm running low on time plus their is no password on the form to log it on-line.

 

All help most welcome

 

I wish I'd found this forum earlier already have 4 ccj's and 1 charging order although my house is in negative equity

[DonkeyB]

Can you pinpoint the last time you actually used the account, made a payment or acknowledged the debt in writing? If it was in 2005, then the account may well be statute barred – which is a total defence to their claim.

 

The date of default is irrelevant – the date you need is the last acknowledgment. Search your records and let us know.

 

Need to do CPR to Arrow as well.

[DonkeyB]

If it was a bank account, there would not be a credit agreement. Are you sure it was a bank account?

 

Can you type out the FULL particulars of claim? Detail is important.

[palemm]

I'm sure the last payment was made in September 2005, but was defaulted when it was sold to Arrow Global in March 2006

 

100 % sure it was my Lloyds TSB current account. So full POC is

 

1.The claim is for the sum of £1xxx.xx in respect of monies owing by the defendant on a credit agreement held by the defendant with Lloyds TSB Bank plc under the account number xxxxxxxxxxx upon which the defendant failed to maintain payments.

 

2.A default notice was served upon the defendant and has not been complied with.

 

3.By virtue of a sale agreement between Lloyds TSB Bank plc and the claimant, the claim vested in the claimant who has a genuine commercial interest. The defendant has been notified of the assignment by letter.

Edited October 27, 2011 by palemm
more detail

[DonkeyB]

Does the account number match the current account?

 

Have you heard from them previously – any Notice of Assignment, or annual statement, or letter before action?

 

Do you have your old statements to show the last activity date?

 

Tell us the full history.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Odd that...a standard current account isn't a credit agreement...

[Undercover-Elsa]

Anyways, you need to tick defend all. You also need to send a SAR immediately to TSB to establish the last transaction on the account. (Link to SAR template in my blog linked below)

and a CPR 31.14 for

the default notice

the Notice of Assignment

and (the fun part!) a copy of the "credit agreement"

 

Elsa x

[palemm]

I have no longer got any Bank statements for this account but I have still got a long expired bank card and the account and sort code numbers match the number on the POC.

I stopped using the account in Feb 2005 but did make some payments to Payplan but these ended around September 2005 this is backed up on my credit file as another debt shows 6 months unpaid in Feb 2006

 

Thanks Elsa

[palemm]

Will I have time to do as you say as I will have just over 2 weeks left once my Acknowledge of service has been received

[Undercover-Elsa]

When you do the CPR 31.14 it includes a request for a time extension...

 

Have a read through the enclosed pdf of the best bits from the legal threads, there's a 31.14 template in there...amend to suit

pt-legal issues-compilation.pdf

[Undercover-Elsa]

There's also a part 18 example in there (for information, not docs) I'd send that too, asking the date of last payment.

[palemm]

I take it I send the CRP 31.14 to Fairfax solicitors rather than Arrow Global or can I fax or email it it to save time

Edited October 28, 2011 by palemm

[Undercover-Elsa]

Send it to whover is named on the claim form for documents. Fax would be OK, but not email. Recorded or Special delivery if by post, essential to have proof of delivery.

[palemm]

So as time is an issue I will fax it and send a copy in the post just to be sure, do I still need to do the SAR bearing in mind I'm tight for time or will the Part 18 provide the relevant information ?

[Undercover-Elsa]

I'd send the SAR anyway...

[palemm]

I faxed the CRP 31.14 and sent it Sepcial delivery to arrive today but alas it seems Royal Mail are against me too and have not delivered it today but are now saying they will deliver it tomorrow but apparently I'm entitled to my money back for the postage.

 

So just to recap (sorry for being a newb) do Fairfax have 7 days from now to respond to me and in form me on whether they will agree to extend the time limit and get the documents requested in the CRP 31.14 ?

[palemm]

I've now received a letter in response to my CRP 31.14 saying they require £1 for getting a copy of the "Agreement" and it may take up to 6-8 weeks for them to get it and they are saying they will contact me once they've received my defence, there is no mention of extending the defence time limit and the Amount owed on the letter they sent me is completely wrong it is showing 13 thousand and something instead of one thousand and something.

 

What should I do next because I need the paper work to be able to show my defence but it looks as if they are trying to not supply them until I have written my defence?

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Palemm,

Sorry hon I don't have two seconds to rub together at the moment due to work but if you could paste up exactly what you put in the CPR 31.14 and exactly what they put in response verbatim it will help us to formulate the response. Idiots are confusing 31.14 with a CCA request.

 

kind regards,

Elsa x

[palemm]

My CRP 31.14 is as follows (my name and address removed and case number)

 

CPR 31.14 Request

On 18/10/2011 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Bradford County Court .

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention

to contest all of your claim.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a

verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of

Claim:

1.the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD

16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents

constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the

original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the

contract should also be attached.

2 the default notice

3 the assignment

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated

to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have

not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions

of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by

claiming otherwise.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have

requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties

extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have

requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a

legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the

possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have

mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of

this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that

same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a

separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to

making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and

preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs

incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell

me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time

you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request

and also state a date by when you will comply with this request.

In addition your statement must be

accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence.

Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have

complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this

request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree

to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order

that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

yours faithfully

[palemm]

The response.........reply.doc

 

I only have 10 days left without an extension.

 

What about them getting the amount wrong in the letter they sent me, can I use that in my defence to prove they don't know what they're doing ?

Edited November 5, 2011 by palemm

[citizenB]

You do NOT have to pay any money to them for a copy of the agreement. You have made a legitimate request under CPR for a copy of a document they have mentioned in their PoC.

They should have in their possession any documents they mention.

 

So you have acknowledged the claim, yes ?

 

They have failed to provide information under CPR so you now need to ask them for an extension of time. You simply cannot enter a defence if you do not know what you are having to defend.

 

I would telephone them on Monday. Do not let them sidetrack you from the simple request of an extension of time in order for them to provide the documents you require.

 

You should say.. As they have failed to provide the documents requested under CPR in sufficient time for you to enter a defence, you are now requesting their agreement to and extension of 28 days. This is to allow them to obtain and send those documents and a clear 14 days for you review documents and submit a defence. You are making this request under CPR15.5

 

If they agree, then you must follow up with letter confirming the conversation and they MUST write to you confirming this as it is your responsibility to inform the court.

 

If they dont, then you are going to have to consider submitting an application to the court by way of N244 this will be for disclosure and an extension of time.

 

Draft letter below regarding CPR15.5

 

Dear Sir/Madam (Name)

Court references

This letter is just to confirm the telephone conversation I had with your office this morning.

Documents requested under CPR31.14 and CPR31.15 had not been received by me.

I therefore telephoned today in order to agree an extension of 28 days as per CPR15.15.

“Agreement extending the period for filing a defence

15.5

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part15.htm#IDAUXNTB

(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.

(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing.”

You should also point out to whoever you speak to that you have not made a CCA request, but a request under CPR and they are obliged to provide documents they have mentioned in their PoC. there fore they are not permitted to charge you anything.

[citizenB]

I think you should also have asked for a statement of account in your CPR31.14, in order to show how they have arrived at the sum they are demanding.

 

I wonder if you could ask for them to provide an accounting via CPR 18 ?

 

Do keep that letter they sent you demanding money for the CPR.

 

You need to respond to that, I think.

 

Dear Sir/Madam (Or named person)

 

Court references.

 

Your letter dated DATE is requesting monies for a copy of an agreement.

 

My request for documents mentioned within your Particular of Claim was made via CPR31.14 and you are not permitted to charge for that.

 

It is my understanding that the information / documents on which you base your claim against me, should be in your possession prior to starting the claim. I am therefore astonished that you would require 6 weeks to provide these.

 

I am also confirming that I will be speaking to your office on Monday (DATE) in respect of an extension of time as you have not complied with my CPR31.14. If no extension is agreed, then I will be making an application to the court both for an extension and also disclosure of documents you have failed to provide by way of CPR.

 

Yours etc.

[palemm]

thanks for your help it is REALLY appreciated, I will fax the above letter to them and call them on monday as you have said.

 

what do you make of the fact that the claim is for £1300 ish including charges but their letter says £13000 ish, my guess that they have a standard letter and have not changed the amount ?

[citizenB]

thanks for your help it is REALLY appreciated, I will fax the above letter to them and call them on monday as you have said.

 

what do you make of the fact that the claim is for £1300 ish including charges but their letter says £13000 ish, my guess that they have a standard letter and have not changed the amount ?

 

It looks to me as though they have included their charges in the letter they have sent you. Which of course, until they obtain judgment (IF they obtain judgment) they are not permitted to claim. So any requests for money should reflect the true state of affairs.

[palemm]

surely their charges cannot be £12500 pounds for a small claims court