2nd phase reply received

[Dammam]

Dear Mr Smith

Re: Account Charges for Overdraft Excesses and Returned Items

 

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about your account.

 

Your concern

 

I think it would be helpful if I set out my understanding of your concern:

 

· You feel that the charges you have incurred as contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulation 1999.

 

You are unhappy with that amount of charges you have incurred as a result of being overdrawn and from returned items.

You have requested that all charges incurred should be refunded for the past 6 years.

 

What's happened?

 

When you become a customer, we give you details of any charges for the day to day running of your account. Details of our charges are also available from our branch staff, telephone helpline or available on our website. While banking with us can be completely free, we only apply charges if a customer does not have enough money in their account to meet payments they have requested us to make.

 

Why has this happened?

 

You incurred charges because you did not ensure funds were available in your account to cover the payments set up by you. It is your responsibility to operate your account within any agreed limits. If your expenditure exceeds your income, you need to consider cancelling or reducing your monthly commitments.

 

As a business we are entitled to set charges to cover additional work, as is any other business. These charges are not hidden and are notified in the guide to banking charges leaflet we produce. We do not hide these charges and advise our customers to ensure cleared funds are available in their accounts to meet payments due. You will also note that in the front of each cheque book we request that funds are available before cheques are issued.

 

You accepted these terms when you opened your account and when you agreed your overdraft. We did not agree to pay your account in excess of the amount agreed without charges being made.

 

I must advise that we will expect your account to be run in line with the terms and conditions of its operation. This means that you must ensure that cleared funds are deposited into the account the working day before any payments are due. If you do not feel you will be able to run your account in accordance with the terms and condition, we may have to consider withdrawing certain facilities, such as any debit cards, overdrafts and chequebooks. Alternatively, you may wish to consider alternative banking arrangements.

 

Regarding your request for details of charges on your account for the past six years, I can advise that I am prepared to accept your request under the Data Protection Act. However I should point out that there is normally a £10 fee for information requested under Data Protection, although I am prepared to waive this on this occasion. In addition, I can also advise that some statement records we hold are on microfiche and, as such, fall outside the requirements of the Data Protection Act. Although this is the case, I can advise you that I have asked for copy statements to be produced for the period in question, which will highlight the charges you have referred to and I will send these to you within the next three weeks, which I trust will be acceptable. Our usual charge of £5.00 per copy statement has been waived on this occasion.

 

As a final point I regret that I am unable to advise you how our charges are calculated. We do review our charging structure on a regular basis and any changes are communicated to our customers in line with the Banking Code.

 

What happens next?

 

I hope that you feel I have made a fair decision on your complaint, but if you wish to talk about any of this, please call me on 0121 600 3243, or write to me at the above address.

 

You can ask the Financial Ombudsman Service to independently review my decision. You can contact them at The Financial Ombudsman Service, South Quay Plaza, 183 Marsh Wall, London, E14 9SR. Telephone: 0845 080 1800. Website: http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk. If you do want them to look at your complaint, they need you to get in touch with them within 6 months of the date of this letter.

 

Thank you once again for taking the time to raise your concerns with us.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

David Just

Assistant Manager

 

 

 

 

 

Bog standard reply that everyone is getting, except for this bit:-

 

"As a final point I regret that I am unable to advise you how our charges are calculated. We do review our charging structure on a regular basis and any changes are communicated to our customers in line with the Banking Code."

 

This was in answer to the question I posed elsewhere here and in my letter, namely why are we not seeing a reduction in charges considering the reduction in operating costs achieved by outsourcing much of the customer services functions to the sub-continent. And of course, how are the figures for these penalties arrived at.

Shouldn't things like this be a little more transparent? If it DOES cost £10+ for Lloyds to send a letter, then they can subcontract that part of the business to me and I'll do it for a fiver!

[Dammam]

I'm being a bit of a gobshite today, so I sent this reply to the above letter to pass a bit of time.

 

 

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

 

Dear Mr Just,

 

Thank you very much for your prompt reply. However, I need to clarify a few points which may not have been immediately apparent in my first email.

 

1. I have NOT at this stage requested repayment of charges over the last 6 years, but I HAVE requested repayment of charges Since July 1st 2002, a little over 3 and a half years. I did however request data going back 6 years if my request was not acted upon, which I assume is the case. Thank you very much for the waiving of the fees for these items.

 

2. "Why has this happened?" - I fully appreciate you point of view on this matter, and accept the premise of a charge which covers the cost of work

involved in certain processes above & beyond the boundaries of normal day to day banking. However, my argument is that the charges are not cost covering but punative in nature and thus in breach of the Office of Fair Trading findings which I mentioned in my first email.

 

3. My other concern is that following LloydsTSBs move into outsourcing customer services to the sub-continent, these punitive charges have remained artificially high. Given that the sole reason for industries to move parts of their operation to these countries is cost cutting, should the benefits not be passed on to the customers? After all, it is we that have to put up with the kind of sub-standard service that these changes appear to have brought (my one experience of your Indian call centre led me to complain about the unprofessional standard of the staff there, for which I received a standard response).

 

Finally, I have to say that I have always found Lloyds staff to be polite, helpful and efficient and the one time I needed to speak to the manager at the Brecon Branch several years ago on a matter that was neither my or, as it transpired, the banks fault, I found the service excellent. I wouldn't wish my request to be in any way construed as a complaint against the day to day work of the staff at my branch.

 

Once again, I thank you for your response which is appreciated even though I don't feel it addresses my request or concerns. I must advise you that I will now be starting procedings to recover the disputed sum of money through the County Court system. I am fortunate that my local newspaper has indicated a willingness to support my case so any fears I had of possibly losing my own small costs for the case have now been alleviated.

 

 

 

Got this reply in under an hour:-

 

 

Thanks for your e-mail.

 

I have passed this on to David Just as requested.

 

Regards

 

Keith Boden

Lloyds TSB

Service Recovery

Birmingham

 

 

I've tried to come over as non-agressive and it's true that I've always found my Branch Staff to be excellent, so credit where it's due and a little flattery gets you everywhere, so they say

 

Just out of interest, what does the job 'Service Recovery' entail?????

[ci]

I'd be interested to see the outcome, like yourself i got the same standard email back a couple of days ago. I'm awaiting the detailed charges data b4 i get back to them.

[Dammam]

Got this this afternoon:-

 

Our Ref : xxxxxxxx

 

Dear Mr Smith

 

Thank you for your E-mail dated

I recognise that you had not asked for a refund over a six-year period and I accept that my previous response should have reflected this.

 

Regarding your other comments I regret that I am unable to add any further information to my previous response, although I respect your opinion on the matter. I can assure you that we do welcome feedback and your comments have been noted.

 

As a final point, I can also assure you that we recognise your complaint is not about staff members at your local branch and your comments about the service you have received there are welcome.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

David Just

Assistant Manager

 

 

Ah well, at least he still respects me

But seriously, the staff have always been very good - just that they're having to follow a terrible set of rules.

[BankFodder]

Just go to Moneyclaim and issue the Good News. :twisted:

[xasan]

i've just recieved the same email as dammam, what shall i do next? apply at the online small claims court or ??

[Dammam]

Just go to Moneyclaim and issue the Good News. :twisted:

 

I can't yet, as I presume they are now sending me 6 years of charges - I want to check those out first before claiming as I gave them the chance to settle immediately for 3.5 years or to fight their case and defend 6 years of charges. It'll be interesting to see how much extra they're willing to risk.

[Dammam]

My wife just called me at work, have apparently been offered a settlement - however, not sure how much I can tell you right now as I don't know if it includes any shutup clauses or anything. They have asked me to attend a banking review and change my "3 way" cards for "2 way" ones, whatever that means.

 

 

 

Thanks all.

[Dammam]

This topic was closed on 03/05/19.

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