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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Rossendales letter re CTAX Newcastle debt


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I received a letter from Rossnedales, delivered by Royal Mail, saying I owe £919 for unpaid council tax to Newcastle City Council from a flat I used to live in. Now I'm sure this was in with rent but until I check rent agreement I cant be sure. Moving on from that and until I check I'd be tempted to say ignore this until I have confirmed ... how do I deal with the letter is there anything I need to do inparticular i.e. is there an advised procedure for delaing with these people as I have heard stories about this company?

 

I know I shouldnt let them in the house and have read my rights on here regarding baliffs, baliffs attending with police and also levy on vehicles on your drive (I currently drive a company car, I am in process of getting a copy of the log book to prove it isnt mine) etc.

 

Any help as to my next steps would be very gratefully appreciated and thank you in advance for any help given.

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dont deal with rossers deal with the council only

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for the very quick response but how do I deal with Rossendales ? Surely they're gonna be knocking and pestering me? The letter also says not to pay the council so I was wondering why that was ? You'll have to excuse me but I'm panicking and wondering how is best way to go about the whole situation. I've recently started working at this job and my pay isn't exactly good :-( and don't need to be forced to stretch my already poor income :-( but want to get this sorted but just can't afford to pay in full or be paying £200 a month !!

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you dont have to anything to do with rosser, just do not let them in

 

have a read of a few threads here

 

for the council info you require

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Until you can check the details of your lease to establish if the CT is included in the rent do nothing about Rottendales. You do not have to write, phone or speak with Rottendales nor are you obliged to enter into one of their dubious payment plans that will culminate in lots of charges. At the moment you have not been visited and have not incured a visit fee or a levy fee.

 

What you do need to do urgently is establish WITH THE COUNCIL:

1: How many liability orders they have for you

2: How much on each one?

3:When were they obtained?

4. What periods they cover?

5: What dates were they passed over to Rottendales for action.

 

Once you have all the facts you can then come back here and get all the help you need to write to the Council.

 

WD

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Can I find all this out by emailing the council and reverting back here for further advice?

I'm guessing no phone calls to them, no letting them in and keeping car off the drive ?

Thanks ever so much for your help :-)

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Can I find all this out by emailing the council and reverting back here for further advice?

I'm guessing no phone calls to them, no letting them in and keeping car off the drive ?

Thanks ever so much for your help :-)

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Right just emailed and called council:

 

One liability order for £913.60, were obtained on 12 February 2009 covers period 15 sept 2007 - 9 august 2008.

 

Sure I wasn't even at the address 6 months and had an interesting call with council guy who says if I have proof of living elsewhere and have a copy of tenancy (which Im 99% sure I have a tenancy agreement copy still) I nee to scan in to prove I'm not liable for that period.

 

I will check tonight and post if I have but what's people views on my next steps other than checking tenancy is there nothing more I can do at present?

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Just be on the alert as tossers could turn up at any time, they won't let something like an erroneous liability order get in the way of charging a few fees.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Right just emailed and called council:

 

One liability order for £913.60, were obtained on 12 February 2009 covers period 15 sept 2007 - 9 august 2008. For this timescale you would have had to have had 2 LO's as the first would have run from 15 Sept 2007 to 31 March 2008 then the other from 1 April 2008 to 9 August 2008. Something is not right here and I suspect the Council don't know what they are saying.

 

 

PT

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You need the info pronto as as ploddertom points out there are two tax years there, and you were only there 6 months

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Right I have got in and GET IN !!!! found my tenancy agreement which is signed 11/10/07 for 6 months :-) I have been in touch with landlord from next home after this one and that started in c. April 2008 and they are going to dig out the agreement for me ! I know landlord from next address quite well so she said no problem to get the agreement as she keeps everything on pc. How do I now stand ? As council is now shut I can't ring but will ring back first thing tomorrow for the dates you have requested. Can I ask why these dates are so important ? Not questioning anyone just for my curisoty / understanding of the situation thats all.

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\

You need the info pronto as as ploddertom points out there are two tax years there, and you were only there 6 months

 

could the fact they claim I was in that house from sept 2007 until august 2008 not be the reason for this ?

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\

 

could the fact they claim I was in that house from sept 2007 until august 2008 not be the reason for this ?

 

Council Tax Liability runs from 1 April to 31 March the following year. There is no middle ground. If the dates the Council allege they are correct then they must have 2 LO's. If they only have 1 then it is for part of one year or the other but cannot be for both. If the Council are claiming this money was never paid then despite anything you may have in b&w between you and your LL then unfortunately it is still your responsibility to pay. If it turns out your LL took the money and never paid the Council then that is for you to take up with the LL. If you moved part way through the year the Councils are usually so efficient they manage to lose any correspondence you may have sent them and will bill you for the rest of the year. This may not be as clear cut as you think it may be.

 

PT

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\

 

could the fact they claim I was in that house from sept 2007 until august 2008 not be the reason for this ?

 

Something like that, they have billed you for the whole period, and obtained two liability orders for incorrect amounts. Make copies of your Tenancy agreements and show them to the council, keeping the originals safe imho in case they conveniently misplace the originals, and deny they had them

We could do with some help from you.

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Also would I be best paying this via the councils website and then attempting to claim it back off my ex landlord? I don't want this dragging on I certainly don't want these cowboys hassling me and my family but at the same time it would have to be installments. Sorry for all questions but I'm really stressed today and very concerned :-(

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So even if I was there for 6 months I still have to pay for 12 months council tax ??? Is that correct???

 

Not at all, this where you have to be able to prove you were living elsewhere and one of the best ways to do this is to be able to provide a CT bill for a different address in your name.

 

PT

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Also would I be best paying this via the councils website and then attempting to claim it back off my ex landlord? I don't want this dragging on I certainly don't want these cowboys hassling me and my family but at the same time it would have to be installments. Sorry for all questions but I'm really stressed today and very concerned :-(

 

If you can pay it direct to the council and keep the bailiff out, you don't legally have to deal with these parasites.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Also would I be best paying this via the councils website and then attempting to claim it back off my ex landlord? I don't want this dragging on I certainly don't want these cowboys hassling me and my family but at the same time it would have to be installments. Sorry for all questions but I'm really stressed today and very concerned :-(

 

If it comes to it you would have to pay but the chances of the LL coughing voluntarily may be very remote. You may have to issue a Small Claims. However for now find out what the Council have to say, are you still living in the same Council area? If so it will be worth your while getting your local Councillor(s) involved. Until you have some answers you should also be asking the Council to call off their dogs for 14/28 days.

 

PT

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Something like that, they have billed you for the whole period, and obtained two liability orders for incorrect amounts. Make copies of your Tenancy agreements and show them to the council, keeping the originals safe imho in case they conveniently misplace the originals, and deny they had them

 

Oh don't worry the original is going nowhere !!! Just for good measure it's been scanned and saved on pc, photographed front page of it with my phone and took a pic with my camera :-)

I'm taking it to work tomorrow to fax to council and send recorded delivery ;-) and send via email so they can't say they don't have a copy.

Shame I couldn't ensure Rossendales visit wasn't going to happen so easy :-( I have a 7yr old and 12 yr old on school holidays at present who both answer the door at times !

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Not at all, this where you have to be able to prove you were living elsewhere and one of the best ways to do this is to be able to provide a CT bill for a different address in your name.

 

PT

 

I dont have another CT in my name but I do have proof of living elsewhere. To be fair the guy from council was helpful, polite and said if I could prove either with another rent payment, letter from other landlord, some payment on a bank statement proving another rent payment, a letter from my place of work stating a chnage of address or something to prove I wasn't there they would be able to act.

 

If you can pay it direct to the council and keep the bailiff out, you don't legally have to deal with these parasites.

 

That sounds good to me !!! Am I right in thinking because they have messed up I can get them to re-assess and call off Rossendales ? If so would this just be a common sense email stating I have attached my tenancy and other proof of change of address to prove I wanst at that address then and can Rossendales now be removed from the process as I am going to make payments for what I actually *technically because of LL* now owe ?

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Oh don't worry the original is going nowhere !!! Just for good measure it's been scanned and saved on pc, photographed front page of it with my phone and took a pic with my camera :-)

I'm taking it to work tomorrow to fax to council and send recorded delivery ;-) and send via email so they can't say they don't have a copy.

Shame I couldn't ensure Rossendales visit wasn't going to happen so easy :-( I have a 7yr old and 12 yr old on school holidays at present who both answer the door at times !

 

Well if one of the children answered the door the bailiff cannot come in as they are under 18, if they pushed past them they would be in trouble, as a minor cannot grant them access and any levy they pretended to have would be invalid imho

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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If it comes to it you would have to pay but the chances of the LL coughing voluntarily may be very remote. You may have to issue a Small Claims. However for now find out what the Council have to say, are you still living in the same Council area? If so it will be worth your while getting your local Councillor(s) involved. Until you have some answers you should also be asking the Council to call off their dogs for 14/28 days.

 

PT

 

Sorry for another post but no I'm not currently in the same Council area :-(

 

As previous post would the email just be a brief email along the lines of what I said in last post ?

 

Could i also take this opportunity to thank you for all your help . I cant beleive how helpful and also how flippin quick at replying you have all been ! Without your help and advice I would have been well and truly stuck ! I've made myself sick with worry today panicing about this but now feel slightly more relaxed (which is a good thing as my alopecia kicks in within days if I get really stressed :-( ) thanks to all of you for all your help and advice, I really can't thank you all enough !

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