Have I won? Lloyds PPI coughing loan int & stat 8% int too!!

[hermit]

I have several outstanding complaints with LLoyds TSB... One of which I have received a response from today... I think it's what I want, but just checking...

 

I have had three loans with LLoyds, all of which had PPI applied, I have made three separate claims for refunds! Today I have received a letter saying at least one has been uphold!

 

As a final response they are offering a refund of all PPI premiums paid (inclusive of interest) plus simple interest at 8%.

 

This is what I want right? There is no mention yet as to how much they are giving me back... Saying that will be calculated at the next step! I have to sign and return a letter agreeing to the above as full and final!

 

They also go on to mention arrears on my account, now the first two loans were consolidated in to the third loan, which defaulted and has been passed to a DCA, I'm now paying this back at £50 a month. They say the PPI refund will be used to repay the any arrears on the account. If its with a DCA will it still be counted as arrears? Because I would rather have my money back and then use it to reduce my overall debt, rather than just the one to them!

[cerberusalert]

This is what I want right? There is no mention yet as to how much they are giving me back... Saying that will be calculated at the next step! I have to sign and return a letter agreeing to the above as full and final!

You have won yes, but you can't agree to a F&F until you know what the amount is.

[cerberusalert]

Moved to the PPI forum.

[hermit]

So how do I proceed? Sign and return the form, but amend it to say dependant on final settlement amount?

 

On closer inspection, this is for only one of my claims, so will hopefully be receiving two more!

[ims21]

My advice is don't sign anything or send a form back to them at this stage.

 

It is totally unreasonable to ask you to sign a Full & Final without knowing what the figures are.

 

You need to write to them and demand the calculations as you are not prepared to sign such a document without knowing what the figures are that you are signing off.

 

Regards

 

ims

Edited August 17, 2011 by ims21

[alibobsy]

Think I read somewhere on here that you can argue any refunds go to you as paying the debt collector would be unfair enrichment and favoring one debtor over your others, may be worth putting the fact that you will only accept a payment directly to you at this stage?

 

Not got to offer stages yet with my claims so well done, at least it looks like they are ready to settle.

ali x

[dx100uk]

you need to look on your CFA file and findout who owns the loan.

 

if its a dca then NO they cannot off-set

if its the bank, then sadly yes they can.

 

now, i think lloyds are trying to do you over here actually

because if i read you right, each of the loans was a refinance into a new loan?

 

ifthis is the case , they CANNOT treat the claims a separate

as each old loan would have had PPI + INT carried over into the new loan...

...so hence you would of gotten charged PPI on PPI iPPI int on PPI int and 3 times!!

 

unless you got a rebate of the PPI at the start of each new loan, they are trying to have you over by treating them individually.

 

now the best man for the job is already with you.

 

have you got all three agreements still?

 

can you scan them up please?

 

use:

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint

but leave all figures and dates.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

convert the image to pdf format.

or ir you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

dx

[hermit]

CFA File? Is that my credit reference file?

 

I have tried scanning these documents in, and for some reason they aren't scanning, two scanned fine (attached) but the rest are all scrambled! I've not seen anything like it before.... Almost as if it's some form of anti scan text or something.... Anyway, I'll do it the hard way....

 

I was originally offered a 5k loan after trying to extend my student overdraft, I only took part of it, to form loan one. a few months later I took the second part as loan two. 3 years later, I was broke, struggling with debt/work/etc and it was refinanced along with my overdraft in to loan three. I am still paying this today, all be it to 1st Credit, they tell me their client is Lloyds, but I don't know this for sure.

 

LOAN ONE:

18th December 2001. Cash Loan to me £1500. PPI (cash price) £386.57. Total Loan £1886.57. APR 19.8% Repayment over 60 months.

 

LOAN TWO:

 

March/April time 2002. Cash Loan to me £2550.00. PPI (cash price) £634.52. Total Loan £3184.52. APR 17.9% Repayment over 60 months.

 

LOAN TWO:

 

March/April time 2002. Refinance Loan £5300.00. PPI (cash price) £1834.54. Total Loan £7134.54. APR 1% Repayment over 144 months.

 

Let me know if there is anything else....

File0001.PDF

Edited August 18, 2011 by hermit

[sparkles2010]

you need to edit the document you scanned and posted to remove your personal details

[ims21]

CFA File? Is that my credit reference file? Yes, your credit file

 

I have tried scanning these documents in, and for some reason they aren't scanning, two scanned fine (attached) but the rest are all scrambled! I've not seen anything like it before.... Almost as if it's some form of anti scan text or something.... Anyway, I'll do it the hard way....

 

I was originally offered a 5k loan after trying to extend my student overdraft, I only took part of it, to form loan one. a few months later I took the second part as loan two. 3 years later, I was broke, struggling with debt/work/etc and it was refinanced along with my overdraft in to loan three. I am still paying this today, all be it to 1st Credit, they tell me their client is Lloyds, but I don't know this for sure.

 

LOAN ONE:

18th December 2001. Cash Loan to me £1500. PPI (cash price) £386.57. Total Loan £1886.57. APR 19.8% Repayment over 60 months.

What was the amount of the monthly payment?

Do you know how many payments you made?

LOAN TWO:

 

March/April time 2002. Cash Loan to me £2550.00. PPI (cash price) £634.52. Total Loan £3184.52. APR 17.9% Repayment over 60 months.

What was the amount of the monthly payment?

March or April....do you know which one?

Do you know how many payments you made?

 

 

 

LOAN TWO: I take it you mean Loan 3?

 

March/April time 2002. Are you sure? This is the same date you have given for Loan 2? Refinance Loan £5300.00. PPI (cash price) £1834.54. Total Loan £7134.54. APR 1% ***Possibly Not** over 144 months.

 

What was the amount of the monthly payment?

Do you know how many payments you made before it was passed to DCA?

 

 

Let me know if there is anything else....

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]29598[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]29597[/ATTACH]

 

Hi

 

I've asked for your attachment to be unapproved due to personal info.

 

OK, in order for me to do some calcs, please read and answer the points in red above

 

Thanks

 

ims

[hermit]

Ruddy hell, I'm not doing very well tonight am I! I spent ages, masking out all my personal details and then upload the originals... and then mess up typing up my info... Sorry guys!

 

LOAN ONE Monthly repayment = £38.29 PPI Repayment = £9.87 Total Monthly Repayment = £48.16

 

LOAN TWO Monthly repayment = £62.85 PPI Repayment = £15.64 Total Monthly Repayment = £78.49

Not 100% sure on the date I took this out, its missing from the paper work, but looking in my files now.

 

LOAN THREE (Not Two) Was taken out 24th August 2004

Monthly repayment = £39.07 PPI Repayment = £13.53 Total Monthly Repayment = £52.60

 

The breakdown on loan three: Overdraft £853.28, Insurance £1834.54, Balance transfer from loans One & Two £4446.72

 

I'm not sure how many payments were made on each loan, my problems started early 2004, however loan payments had largely been met until quite late on, as they just kept taking the money and adding to the overdraft.

[ims21]

Hi

 

OK thanks

 

I may be able to work out a ball park figure for you.

 

Will post back later

 

Regards

 

ims

[hermit]

LOAN TWO was taken out on the 11th September 2002 (much later than I thought, sorry)

[ims21]

OK

 

Thanks

 

ims

[hermit]

Ok, been digging through my statements....

 

On LOAN ONE, I made 24 payments at the full amount and then 6 payments at a reduced amount of £20 per month.

 

LOAN TWO, was 19 payments at the full amount and then 6 at £20.

 

After the 6 payments of £20 both loans were refinanced with LOAN THREE, I managed 13 payments, before the account was closed and passed to CDR.

 

Looking through my statements with a clearer head now, than I did back then, the reason I defaulted on the third loan... I was paying in the £52.60 a month to cover the loan, but not enough to cover the £7 a month account charge the added on top.... so I was always in the red, if only we could go back in time...

[hermit]

looking through the various letters I have from 1st Credit, i have several saying;

 

"Lloyds TSB has assigned to 1st Credit Ltd the full outstanding balance due under the agreement referred to above"

 

I guess from that, that Lloyds can no longer have any stake in any repayments they make to me?

[ims21]

Hi

 

Sorry, haven't had a look at the figs yet....been a bit busy. Will do so tonight and post later

 

Regards

 

ims

[hermit]

Many thanks anyway, your help is much appreciated....

[ims21]

Hi

 

OK, I've had a look at this and with the limited information available I've had a stab at what the position should be. Please be aware that we can only get to a ballpark figure with the information provided.

 

This is a long post but please bear with me if you want to get an understanding of what should happen.

 

Firstly, I think your dates are still not wuite right. You said that loan 2 started in Sept 2002 and hat you made 19 payments of the normal aount and 6 at the reduced amount making 25 payments in all. 25 Months from September 2002 takes you to October 2004. You said the consolidation loan started in August 2004, 2 months before the October I have just mentioned.

 

The other thing we don't know is whether you received any ppi rebate on loans 1 and 2 when they were consolidated into loan 3. Even if you did it is highly unlikely that the rebate was equal to the ppi loan outstanding at the time of consolidation. So whether you did get a rebate or whether you didn't, some of the ppi loan on loan 1 and loan 2 was rolled over into loan 3. This is exactly the point that dx100uk made in his earlier post.

 

This is also the reason why they cannot treat these as three individual claims....it would not be possible to get to the bottom of it by doing three individual exercises, or at least it would make it very difficult.

 

The other thing we need to consider is the DCAs position in this. You mention that an assignment has taken place and the words used in your post seem to indicate that the balance has been fully assigned to the DCA which prohibits (or should prohibit) the bank carrying out a set off.

 

To further understand how this should be dealt with you have to put yourself in the bank's shoes for a moment. They have upheld the complaint and need to get the right amount of money back to you. With a live account they would normally adjust the balance on the account. They cannot do this as the balance is now owned by a third party. So what they will more than likely do is make a payment to you comprising the ppi total premiums they have charged, plus their interest on the payments you have made plus 8% statutory interest on each of those payments. Their thought process will be that the DCA should collect the balance on the account that was sold to them (which still included a ppi balance) nd in order for you to pay that back, you will need the ppi part refunded to you directly because the bank no longer have access to the account.

 

So, to the business part of it.

 

On loan 1, the ppi loan is 20.49% of the total loan (386.57/1,886.57 x 100). So we know that your normal ppi payment on a monthly basis was £9.87. When it comes to the reduced payment of £20, then 20.49% of each of those payments is deemed to be for the ppi balance i.e. £4.10.

 

On loan 2, the ppi loan is £19.92% of the total loan (634.52/3,184.52 x 100). So we know that your normal ppi payment on a monthly basis was £15.64. When it comes to the reduced payment of £20, then 19.92% of each of those payments is deemed to be for the ppi balance i.e. £3.98.

 

On loan 3 it is easy, the ppi payment each month was £13.53.

 

So, how much of loan 3 repayments are to do with the rolled over ppi loan from loan 1 and loan 2?

 

Well the easiest way to get to a good estimate is to look at percentages again. You borrowed in total on loan 1 an amount of £1,886.57. On loan 2 you borrowed a total amount of £3,184.52. Add these two together to get the total borrowed = £5,071.09. Now loan 1 is 37.21% of this figure and loan 2 is £62.79% of this figure. This little exercise helps us at the point of consolidation.

 

We know from your posts above that £4,446.72 was the balance of loans 1 and 2 that were consolidated into loan 3. Using the percentages we have just calculated, we can say that 37.21% of that figure was the balance on loan 1 i.e. £1,654.62 and 62.79% was the balance on loan 2 i.e. £2,792.09. These figures are the balances on the two loans including the ppi part so we need to find oput what the ppi part of each of those loans was that ws carried into loan 3.

 

Well thats easy. Earlier we worked out that 20.49% of loan 1 was ppi and 19.92% of loan 2 was ppi. Apply those percentages to the respective balances rolled into loan 3. You get £339.03 being the ppi balance on loan 1 and £556.18 being the ppi balance on loan 2.

 

Hope you are still with me.

 

Good, we're getting there....

 

Now we need to work out what percentage of each repayment for loan 3 related to the ppi loan on loans 1 and 2. Well we have all the information to do that. The total amount borrowed on loan 3 was £7,134.54. Loan 1 ppi percentage included in that is given by 339.03/7,134.54 x 100 = 4.75%. Loan 2 percentage included in that is given by 556.18/7,134.54 x 100 = £7.79%.

 

We're there.

 

4.75% of each repayment you made on loan 3 related to the ppi loan on loan 1 and 4.75% of £52.60 is £2.50.

 

7.79% of each repayment you made on loan 3 related to the ppi loan on loan 2 and 7.79% of £52.60 is £4.09.

 

Now all you need to do is enter the relevant repayment amounts into a spreadsheet to calculate the interest due. As its a complex case, I've done it already and I reckon that the interest on all of the payments you have actually made comes to some £518.

 

So what I think the bank should and will do, providing they uphold the claim, is refund you the three ppi premiums allocated to the 3 accounts which total to £2,855.63 and then add the interest of some £518 (as of today) making a grand total of £3,373.63.

 

You must insist that they treat this as one claim though because of the rollover situation.

 

Hope this helps

 

ims

[dx100uk]

thanks ims wonderful work

 

dx

[hermit]

Wow! Thank you so much! My head hurts just reading that! It's been a long time since I've done real maths! So thanks so much for taking the time to work this out!

 

I have written to them asking for their calculations and the amount the expect to pay me, so hopefully I will get an answer in the next week or so... To date, I have had no response regarding the other two loans, but hopefully they are somewhere in the post and will arrive soon, or perhaps they are treating it as one case, but haven't made that clear.

 

If I get anything like what you mention back, it will almost clear the outstanding balance, which will be an enormous weight from my shoulders!

 

Thank you so much once again, I will let you know what they come back with.

[ims21]

Hi

 

You're welcome

 

I just hope I'm close

 

Regards

 

ims

[RedVixen]

No where as clever as IMS but agree insist on all loans being considered as one claim - on mine I got an several overpayment elements added to the rebate as the loans rolled over - basically admiting that teh subsequent loan would not have been as high had PPI not been added. It all adds up