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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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MBNA and Arrow Global - claim form received - bal prob all unlawful charges ***Struck Out With Costs***


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Right - Just called them and was told the following: 1. That I have not followed the correct protocol as I need to file my defence prior to them providing documents in responce to CPR 31.14 request

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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2. It may take them up to 6 weeks to get hold of documents requested

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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3. That I should file my defence without having access to docs 4. My other CPR 18 request for details of transactions and charges is not possible to respond to 5. They probably will not agree to an extension What now? (sorry no paras due to being on work pc)

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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Yep thats Arrow litigators for you, mixing their protocol with civil procedure rules:|

 

Read here look were their understanding of " Protocol" got them Claim form from Arrow Global / RBS Mint

 

I will get back to you shortly Mr Hat I need to lay down in a darkened room after your post:!:

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Thanks Andy - just read that thread. Interesting reading. I am wondering whether I should e-mail over an extension request based on today's phone call. The case is being dealt with by Arrow not the sols. I rang the Sols and was told that the solicitor was merely putting his name to it but it was being handled by one of the Arrow team who IO spoke to and got the e-mail address. I recorded the call btw.

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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My CPR 31.14 request stated that if they did not comply that I may ask the court to strike out the claim - should I stick to my word? Or try CPR 15.5 request by e-mail first (just to show that I am doing everything I can to follow procedure)

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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You have no alternative but to make application to request extension , disclose documents, or strike out if they don't favor the first 2. Muppet's!!!!.

 

Andy

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Right - Just called them and was told the following: 1. That I have not followed the correct protocol as I need to file my defence prior to them providing documents in responce to CPR 31.14 request

 

 

Erm nope.. they issue claim.. either with documents or shortly after in order for you to be ABLE to prepare a defence. If they dont, then you request them by CPR31.14 and they send them .. if not, you are able to request extra time in order for them to find them, send them and then you get to be able to prepare your defence. !!!

 

2. It may take them up to 6 weeks to get hold of documents requested

 

 

So, is this what they are going to the tell the judge when he ORDERS them to provide these documents.. the ones they should have in order to bring the claim ??

 

 

3. That I should file my defence without having access to docs 4. My other CPR 18 request for details of transactions and charges is not possible to respond to 5. They probably will not agree to an extension What now? (sorry no paras due to being on work pc)

 

 

What mickey mouse solicitor are they using ???

 

 

Yep thats Arrow litigators for you, mixing their protocol with civil procedure rules:|

 

Read here look were their understanding of " Protocol" got them Claim form from Arrow Global / RBS Mint

 

I will get back to you shortly Mr Hat I need to lay down in a darkened room after your post:!:

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks Andy - just read that thread. Interesting reading. I am wondering whether I should e-mail over an extension request based on today's phone call. The case is being dealt with by Arrow not the sols. I rang the Sols and was told that the solicitor was merely putting his name to it but it was being handled by one of the Arrow team who IO spoke to and got the e-mail address. I recorded the call btw.

 

Ah right.. they arent using a solicitor.. hmmm, so he is just signing HIS name to their cock ups ?? Should we be letting the SRA know about this arrangement ?? You recorded the call.. brilliant :)

 

 

 

I will get back to you shortly Mr Hat I need to lay down in a darkened room after your post:!:

 

Move over Andy :lol:

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considering that I was told on the phone that it can take up to 6 weeks to get documents, should I request the maximum 28 days extension? Is it ok to do this via e-mail or should it be by post (or both)? Also how long should I give them to agree to one of the first two before attempting to strike out considering that I only have 8 days left until defence needs to be filed? Would I still need to prepare a defence for the 13th Sept in any case?

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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Must be rent a Sol CB , their world collapses when the defendant challenges the claim.:madgrin:

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considering that I was told on the phone that it can take up to 6 weeks to get documents, should I request the maximum 28 days extension? Is it ok to do this via e-mail or should it be by post (or both)? Also how long should I give them to agree to one of the first two before attempting to strike out considering that I only have 8 days left until defence needs to be filed? Would I still need to prepare a defence for the 13th Sept in any case?

 

Phone them up dont request " tell " them you need them to email conformation, in light of the 6 weeks to produce paperwork for their claim, of an agreed 28 day extension CPR 15.5 failure will leave you no alternative but to request an order for their compliance or to strike out their claim.

 

Andy

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Right - phoned and they were not happy. They said that I had clearly been online googling and that I am clearly not legally minded! :lol:

Think I have made a slight error though. They said without me even asking for it that they are agreeing to a six week extension and that they would notify the court. I said, I need it in writing by e-mail tomorrow so that I could notify the court or I would have to ask the court to order compliance if they do not do so. They said 'We would welcome you to do so'.

 

My mistake is that they cannot agree to a 6 week extension as the maximum is 28 days. I also suspect that if they do e-mail confirmation, it will not be suffient for a 15.5 extension as it needs to state a specific date within 28 days. Am I correct?

 

They are attempting to frustrate the process and mislead me on CPR. I will tell them 1st thing tomorrow that I need e-mail confirmation "agreeing to a CPR 15.5 extension until 11th October".

 

I don't think they are going to play ball.

 

What steps do I need to take to get a court order for compliance and/or strike out?

 

I am short on time, especially as I am away from Thu-Mon.

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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1st Credit & LCS Battle - court papers received - help - help post 430 saves me repeating myself.

 

 

 

Right - phoned and they were not happy. They said that I had clearly been online googling and that I am clearly not legally minded!

 

Wot like they is ha ha

 

 

 

Andy

Edited by Andyorch

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Hi Andy,

 

I have prepared my N244 form and am working on my 'Draft Order' although it will be quite similar to the one you told me to look at.

 

Questions for you:

 

1. Bearing in mind that my defence is due by 4pm on 13 Sept, what date should the draft order say that they should comply by?

2. How long does it take to hear back from the court re N244 and is it ok to fax it over to speed things up? - just read that you can fax it

3. If this date is beyond my defence due date, do I still need to enter a holding defence in the meantime?

4. I take it that a N244 has no bearing on my deadline for defence?

5. Is the court likely to accept this N244 request bearing in mind the facts in this case? Or is it a bit of a lottery?

 

My plan of action is to request a proper agreement for an extension by tomorrow (sent to me by e-mail). If I get that, I will notify the court and get the extension. If I don't, we go down the N244 route. Is this a good plan of action?

 

Many (many) thanks for all your help

Edited by MrHat
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CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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Also - I assume that it's ok to use virtually the same Draft Order text as the chap on the other thread did. Just need to personalise the docs I am requesting. Is this ok? S

 

Sorry for all the Qs, I will hopefully learn from all of this and be able to help others and take some of the burden off you AndY!

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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Hi Andy,

 

I have prepared my N244 form and am working on my 'Draft Order' although it will be quite similar to the one you told me to look at.

 

Questions for you:

 

1. Bearing in mind that my defence is due by 4pm on 13 Sept, what date should the draft order say that they should comply by? Providing you get your extension plus 28

2. How long does it take to hear back from the court re N244 and is it ok to fax it over to speed things up? - just read that you can fax it last heard in the region of 2 weeks behind yes ok to fax but then ring to check receipt

.3. If this date is beyond my defence due date, do I still need to enter a holding defence in the meantime? Depends the Court should enter a bar on your defence on receipt of the application hence the phone call

4. I take it that a N244 has no bearing on my deadline for defence? If it contains a request for CPR 15.5 extension then yes

5. Is the court likely to accept this N244 request bearing in mind the facts in this case? Or is it a bit of a lottery?The claimant must prove its claim and you must be allowed to submit a defence, without disclosure it very hard whether a DJ will agree is another thing

My plan of action is to request a proper agreement for an extension by tomorrow (sent to me by e-mail). If I get that, I will notify the court and get the extension. If I don't, we go down the N244 route. Is this a good plan of action?

If they dont you put the request for CPR 15.5 within your application also.

Many (many) thanks for all your help

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Also - I assume that it's ok to use virtually the same Draft Order text as the chap on the other thread did. Just need to personalise the docs I am requesting. Is this ok? S

 

Sorry for all the Qs, I will hopefully learn from all of this and be able to help others and take some of the burden off you AndY!

 

Yes thats fine just state which CPR you have used and what you asked for and what you wish to be disclosed.

Andy

 

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Thanks for the response:

 

"1. Bearing in mind that my defence is due by 4pm on 13 Sept, what date should the draft order say that they should comply by? Providing you get your extension plus 28"

 

So if I put that I need 28 days CPR 15.5 extension on my N244 form, I will not have to file my defence on 13th September? Correct?

 

And then could I put in the draft order that they need to supply the docs 14 days prior to my new defence deadline - say 27th September and then my defence deadline would be 11th October

 

Would that work?

 

Also, I assume I need to pay a fee. How much is it and how can I pay?

 

And finally: If the claimant does agree to an extension, was I right in saying (in a recent post) that it can only be up to 28 days and that I need to get it in writing that they agree to a "CPR 15.5 extension until 11th October". Think they were trying to confuse matters by verbally saying that they have agreed to a 6 week extension and would post to me 'at the end of the week' and notify court. Suspect they are trying to trick me into missing my defence deadline.

 

If I do get a satisfactory e-mail, I can then fax off to the court and notify them of our agreed extension??? Not holding my breath though.

 

 

Think we are almost there for the night! :???:

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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and also - here is my draft 'draft order' - is it ok?

 

 

Unlessby 4pm on 27
th
September 2011 the claimant complies with requests made by thedefendant on 25
th
August 2011 pursuant to CPR 18 and on 25
th
August 2011 pursuant to CPR 31:14 to clarify information pertainingto the defendants request and provide copies of the followingdocumentation:-

1.Copiesof the Agreement and any docum
ents/
termsand conditions
referr
edto within, which the claimant seeks to rely upon

2.A copy of the Default Notice and Proof of Postage

3.A current full statement of account showing how the balance claimedis calculated including all transactions, interest and charges ('latefees' and 'overlimit fees')

4.The Termination Notice

5.The Notice of Assignment, with proof of service of the same compliantwith s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925

6.Copies of any statement or other document relied upon

 

Theclaim shall stand struck out and the defendant shall be at liberty toenter judgement against the claimant without further order of thecourt and [ii] the Claimant shall pay the Defendant his/her costs ofthis case to be assessed on the standard basis and pursuant to theprovisions of The Litigants in Person (Costs and Expenses) Act1975.

 

In the event that the Claimant shall comply with thisorder

1.TheDefendant shall within 14 days thereafter file his defence

2.TheClaimant shall pay the Defendant the costs of this application

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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Thanks for the response:

 

"1. Bearing in mind that my defence is due by 4pm on 13 Sept, what date should the draft order say that they should comply by? Providing you get your extension plus 28"

 

So if I put that I need 28 days CPR 15.5 extension on my N244 form, I will not have to file my defence on 13th September? Correct? In theory

And then could I put in the draft order that they need to supply the docs 14 days prior to my new defence deadline - say 27th September and then my defence deadline would be 11th October

 

Would that work? Correct if the extension is accepted

 

Also, I assume I need to pay a fee. How much is it and how can I pay? £45.00 cheque to HMCS

And finally: If the claimant does agree to an extension, was I right in saying (in a recent post) that it can only be up to 28 days and that I need to get it in writing that they agree to a "CPR 15.5 extension until 11th October". Think they were trying to confuse matters by verbally saying that they have agreed to a 6 week extension and would post to me 'at the end of the week' and notify court. Suspect they are trying to trick me into missing my defence deadline. Perhaps they googled that :wink:

 

If I do get a satisfactory e-mail, I can then fax off to the court and notify them of our agreed extension??? Not holding my breath though. Yes with no charge

 

Think we are almost there for the night! :???:

 

Before you can complete the application its depends on whether they will agree separately or you have to seek their compliance with the application.

On a separate request for extension (ie without an application the accepted term is 28 days, anymore and you have to make it vis a vis an N244 so you pay).

You have to make sure all goes to plan so everything fits date wise but i see you seem to understand the system so far.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Great, I think I sort of get it.

 

So if I go down the N244 route, I could ask for more than 28 days, in theory, by citing that they told me on the phone (which I recorded) that they need up to 6 weeks to comply to CPR 31.14. Question is, do I want to give them enough time to comply when they should have got these documents prior to bringing the claim and have supplied them to me with 7 days upon request? Think I will stick with plan A if I do need to do the N244.

 

I am first going to request that they write me an e-mail agreeing to a 28 day CPR 15.5 extension to avoid the N244. If they have any sense, they should do it as this would work best for both parties. If they do agree, I can always do the N244 nearer the extended deadline if I haven't received docs 1 week out from my new defence due date.

 

Tomorrow should be interesting.

 

Please correct me if any of the above is wide of the mark or ill-thought out

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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Sounds like a plan:wink:

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:-D

 

One final q for the night:

 

Any reason that I shouldn't e-mail the Arrow rep (this is all being handled by one individual at their end and I have their e-mail addy) a CPR 15.5 request then follow up with a phone call requesting that they reply directly to my e-mail and agree to the 28 day extension?

 

Just trying to avoid being sent some waffle such as "we will suspend collection activity until we supply docs and won't request a default judgement, honest, trust us etc" as clearly the court would not view that as a CPR 15.5 agreed extension.....

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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However you feel most comfortable and can achieve an agreement and conformation to get off to Court.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Hi Andy -

 

In my N244 draft 'draft order' can I add this?:

 

 

CPR 15.5 28-day extension to 4pm 11th October 2011 (extended from 13th September) granted for the defendant to file a defence in light of claimants failure to reply to CPR 31.14 and CPR 18 requests and subsequent refusal to agree to a CPR 15.5 extension upon request.

Then I would also make a brief reference to it in box 4 on the N244 form too?

Otherwise it will be similar to the one on the thread you told me to read...

Does that read ok?

CAG has helped me so much since I joined. Based on what I have learnt from others on here and my own experiences, I try to chip in and help others from time to time. I am not an expert and give my opinion only. Always check with the more experienced CAG members before making important decisions.

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