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    • I have just read the smaller print on their signs. It says that you can pay at the end of your parking session. given that you have ten minutes grace period the 35 seconds could easily have been taken up with walking back to your car, switching on the engine and then driving out. Even in my younger days when I used to regularly exceed speed limits, I doubt I could have done that in 35 seconds even when I  had a TR5.
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    • Thank you for posting up the results from the sar. The PCN is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4. Under Section 9 [2][a] they are supposed to specify the parking time. the photographs show your car in motion both entering and leaving the car park thus not parking. If you have to do a Witness Statement later should they finally take you to Court you will have to continue to state that even though you stayed there for several hours in a small car park and the difference between the ANPR times and the actual parking period may only be a matter of a few minutes  nevertheless the CEL have failed to comply with the Act by failing to specify the parking period. However it looks as if your appeal revealed you were the driver the deficient PCN will not help you as the driver. I suspect that it may have been an appeal from the pub that meant that CEL offered you partly a way out  by allowing you to claim you had made an error in registering your vehicle reg. number . This enabled them to reduce the charge to £20 despite them acknowledging that you hadn't registered at all. We have not seen the signs in the car park yet so we do not what is said on them and all the signs say the same thing. It would be unusual for a pub to have  a Permit Holders Only sign which may discourage casual motorists from stopping there. But if that is the sign then as it prohibits any one who doesn't have a permit, then it cannot form a contract with motorists though it may depend on how the signs are worded.
    • Defence and Counterclaim Claim number XXX Claimant Civil Enforcement Limited Defendant XXXXXXXXXXXXX   How much of the claim do you dispute? I dispute the full amount claimed as shown on the claim form.   Do you dispute this claim because you have already paid it? No, for other reasons.   Defence 1. The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXXX  2. It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant. 3. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 4. In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant. 5. The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 6. In a further abuse of the legal process the Claimant is claiming £50 legal representative's costs, even though they have no legal representative. 7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all. Signed I am the Defendant - I believe that the facts stated in this form are true XXXXXXXXXXX 01/05/2024   Defendant's date of birth XXXXXXXXXX   Address to which notices about this claim can be sent to you  
    • pop up on the bulk court website detailed on the claimform. [if it is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time] . When you select ‘Register’, you will be taken to a screen titled ‘Sign in using Government Gateway’.  Choose ‘Create sign in details’ to register for the first time.  You will be asked to provide your name, email address, set a password and a memorable recovery word. You will be emailed your Government Gateway 12-digit User ID.  You should make a note of your memorable word, or password as these are not included in the email.<<**IMPORTANT**  then log in to the bulk court Website .  select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. .  then using the details required from the claimform . defend all leave jurisdiction unticked  you DO NOT file a defence at this time [BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ] click thru to the end confirm and exit the website .get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim type your name ONLY no need to sign anything .you DO NOT await the return of paperwork. you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.
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Taking a student to court.


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Both student and guarantor work so may be worth doing even just for the satisfaction of getting them to realise they cannot just walk away!

 

It may also cause problems for the student if they want further accommodation later this year

 

Crikey I am thinking like a DCA! :eek:

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Oops, lol. I'll put it back to legal issues if you like. Can't think of anything else.:|

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Just spotted this and thought of your problem dotty. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=163&a=213

Edited by caro
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Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I've changed the link. It's to an announcement about a TV company looking for people with problems with student accommodation.

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Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Will be interesting to see if they take you up on it. I've never heard of a situation like yours and it would be good for people to be aware that this can happen, and more importantly what you can do about it.

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Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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I don't think any parent would sign a guarantee under a joint and several liability if they realised exactly what they are agreeing to.

 

The annual rent on this property is getting on for £30k, yes that's right!

 

Unfair contract? Possibly!

 

Good job only one student left..........................so far!

 

What's so frustrating is neither the student or their guarantor will acknowledge that they are liable and obviously expect us to pick up their debt. :frusty:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I need to establish if we can issue a claim against the student and guarantor now for the whole of the sum that will be due at the end of the tenancy?

 

I am concerned that the student will have moved on by then and we will not have any idea of their address

 

Does anyone have any idea?

 

I will also get the thread title changed to avoid confusion

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Check the terms of the tenancy to see what should have been paid when they left. By the time you send a letter before action and start a claim I suspect that the tenancy will be virtually finished anyway.

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Hi Caro,

 

Calculating the shortfall is the easy bit because we are have already had to pay some of it and there is another four months of the tenancy to go.

 

I think I will prepare a letter before action and see if it gets a response, neither student or parent has responded to a previous email!

 

Have I seen some LBA template letters on here?

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We had them for bank claims but not so sure now and this isn't the same scenario..

 

Technically I think you should send them a preliminary letter telling them what you want to pay and give them 14 days to comply. Tell them if they don't you'll be considering court action. If that doesn't work send an LBA saying you're disappointed they haven't complied, and give them another 14 days and then you file a claim in court.

 

This means you've followed the CPR and given them 28 days before going to court which is reasonable. You could perhaps suggest that mif they can't pay they let you know so that you can come to a mutually acceptable arrangement.

 

If you want to draft something and post it up I'd be happy to take a look.

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Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Blimey eds missed this one!

I doubt you could claim against the guarantors, for the reasons expressed earlier, especialy if challenged! or LL you for that matter ( defo challenge that )

I suggest that neither you or the LL want to got court, so why dont all of the remaing students/parents try to come to some arrangement with LL for missing rent.

reduced amount but guaranteed payment.

negotiation rather than litigation.

Just a thought!:roll:

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Blimey eds missed this one!

I doubt you could claim against the guarantors, for the reasons expressed earlier, especialy if challenged! or LL you for that matter ( defo challenge that )

I suggest that neither you or the LL want to got court, so why dont all of the remaing students/parents try to come to some arrangement with LL for missing rent.

reduced amount but guaranteed payment.

negotiation rather than litigation.

Just a thought!:roll:

 

The very reason for pre-action protocols to make sure no-one rushes to court as a first resort.:-)

The Consumer Action Group is a free help site.

Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Blimey eds missed this one!

 

I doubt you could claim against the guarantors, for the reasons expressed earlier, especialy if challenged! or LL you for that matter ( defo challenge that )

Sorry, what do yo mean, challenge what?

 

 

I suggest that neither you or the LL want to got court, so why dont all of the remaing students/parents try to come to some arrangement with LL for missing rent.

reduced amount but guaranteed payment.

negotiation rather than litigation.

The landlord has already obtained a ccj against the guarantor and had no hesitation about taking the rest of us if WE did not pay the outstanding amount, which we have now paid

 

Just a thought!:roll:

 

Why do you think we couldn't claim from the guarantor?

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Gurantor form notnormally valid unless witnessed and signed by parties as a Deed, possibly under seal. any agreement/contract must have value to both sides. A Guarantor has no benefiet in the arrangement therefore usual contract/ agreement not valid, so must be done as witnessed legal document as in a will. affidavit etc.

CCJ was only granted on Guarantor because it was not challenged in court.

 

Sorry if its too late, missed that you had paid already!

Just to check was any deposit paid by defaulting tennant that could have been used.

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Don't apologise, I appreciate any help given thank you.

 

Actually that's a very good point about the guarantees, all the signatures were done by post so Mickey Mouse could have signed them! No witnesses or identification proven at the time either. I did think about challenging this but we as guarantors were concerned about getting a ccj.

 

I did question the fact that the landlord had accepted a guarantor who was obviously not capable of fulfilling their obligations, yet we had to pay for references before the tenancy was agreed, but the question was not answered! I am beginning to think that maybe we shouldn't have rolled over so easily, let the landlord issue a claim as threatened and put a counterclaim in?

 

There will still be further monies due by the time the tenancy ends so maybe I should try and get a free consultation with a solicitor to see if they think the paperwork would stand up in court?

 

No holding deposit was paid, which seemed like a good thing at the time but it could have been to our advantage if one had been .

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You neednt of waited for it go to court to mention the suspected invalidity of the guarantor form, just a letter to the LL pointing this out may have done the trick and possibly stopped the action.

good luck anyway.

we all learn by experince and anything that avoids the use of solicitors or courts is always good, as there is less stress and maybe a few quid.

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Nothing would stop this landlord we got a tough one!

 

It seems that the guarantor has applied for a set aside and a hearing is due to take place fairly soon but the landlord can't attend, does that mean it will be set aside without question?

 

The rent is no longer owed to the landlord which has been confirmed to the court.

 

I feel that in some ways we have been bullied into paying the rent with the threat of court action held over our heads!

 

I have emailed both student and guarantor but have had not had any response. Can I send a letter before action by email or should it be sent by post, recorded?

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'I feel that in some ways we have been bullied into paying the rent with the threat of court action held over our heads!'

Unfortunately it worked!:!:

 

LBA is always a good idea, as gives defendant opportunity to settle before going to court.

dont forgt tho that garuantor may challenge validity!

 

Regarding the other garuntors action, if LL cannot attend and informed the court, more likely another date may be set.

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Thanks Ray,

 

The landlord is now pushing the students for the shortfall of the rent for May and wants them all to pay an equal split for this to the end of the tenancy, which means of course that he will have been paid in full and will have no recourse on the student that move out! I don't feel that we should pay anymore until we know the results of the set aside.

 

We (parents) will be over £3000 down and I want to issue a claim now whilst we now the errant students whereabouts, the claim being for the total amount owing under the terms of the contract.

 

I have not been well this week but plan to get the lba prepared asap and go from there

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My penny's worth....

 

With regards to the bailiff, it doesn't matter that you guys / your parents are jointly liable. If the CCJ is against the former tenants parents, then they are the only people who can be pursued with that warrant.

 

The LL will need an additional (successful) claim against the other liable parties (you and your flat-mates) to enforce against you.

 

The bailiff will of course tell you otherwise.

 

The bailiff has no business visiting an address where the debtor has known to have fled. Is his premature departure not the entire basis of the claim?

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