Pinnacle / Apex now trying SD AFTER CCJ and CO from Blackhorse

[dcabuster45]

Hi all

is there ANYWAY I can get these wretched people off my back.

 

I had an old debt from Blackhorse (Lloyds TSB I think actually owns them) which a CCJ and a CO was issued for. At that time I had ZERO income so I just let it ride as it was around £2400 -- in those days people would go for a CO almost as soon as the CCJ was granted and iit was a method to get Interest stopped. Some might consider it risky but it seemed to me unlikely that any court would enforce a property sale on a relatively small amount of debt in relation to the property -- perhaps I was wrong -- who knows but that was done.

 

A few months ago I got a notification from Pinnacle saying they had "Bought" the debt from LLOYDS TSB, confirmed the amount and that NO INTEREST CHARGES were being added and that I need do NOTHING -- probably the first time in History a DCA says you need to do nothing.

 

Then all of a sudden I'm getting BOMBARDED with about 3 letters a week from APEX saying we are the collection company of Pinnacle -- you haven't paid -- litigation threats etc etc etc.

 

I sent them a letter reminding them

 

a) their parent company had said DO NOTHING

b) They had no right in any case to collect the debt (whether or not they had purchased it) without getting a variation of the original CCJ / CO

c) Sending 3 or more harassing letters a WEEK is just as bad as TELEPHONE HARRASSMENT and complaint duely forwarded to OFT etc.

 

I also said any more of my time spent on this matter will incur your firm in a £35 "administration fee" for EVERY LETTER I have to deal with unless it's one saying either Account / Matter is now closed or debt has gone back to the OC.

 

Well at the weekend they now have sent out an SD,

 

My question is can they actually do this if the debt is subject to a CCJ and a Charging Order payable to ANOTHER creditor.

 

The CO AFAIK "secures" the debt so what's the point of the SD anyway.

 

Can I "Sting" these wretched people for Costs etc etc. In any case I've sent them an Invoice of £35 for this last letter.

 

There really seems no bottom to the manner in which these despicable people behave --even when they tell you one thing IN WRITING (i.e Do Nothing) they do another -- threatening letters, SD etc etc.

[nicklea]

The CO AFAIK "secures" the debt so what's the point of the SD anyway.

 

Can I "Sting" these wretched people for Costs etc etc. In any case I've sent them an Invoice of £35 for this last letter.

 

You are correct about the CO, this is a ground for having the SD set aside:-

 

© it appears that the creditor holds some security in respect of the debt claimed by the

demand, and either Rule 6.1(5) is not complied with in respect of it, or the court is satisfied

that the value of the security equals or exceeds the full amount of the debt;

I would suggest that, as long as you can demonstrate that there is a CO on your property, then it will be an easy case to get the SD set aside.

 

Unfortunately, you can't 'sting' them. However, if you do want to get back at them then I would suggest that the way to do it is to get the SD set aside and claim your costs - you could probably claim around 300 quid.

 

 

EDIT

 

A few months ago I got a notification from Pinnacle saying they had "Bought" the debt from LLOYDS TSB, confirmed the amount and that NO INTEREST CHARGES were being added and that I need do NOTHING -- probably the first time in History a DCA says you need to do nothing.

 

Just a small point, but Pinnacle are not a DCA, it is Apex that are the DCA. Pinnacle are now the creditor.

[dcabuster45]

OK the SD can be set aside -- if they actually attempt to go to court to enforce it -- but I have two even more fundamental questions

 

(Slight error in my previous post -- it was a THREATOGRAM saying they would send an SD if payment in full --within 7 days --you know the normal B/S these types of companies send out on their automated threatogram machines).

 

1) Do they have ANY RIGHT to collect this debt until and unless the original CCJ and CO has been changed -- after all the court judgement at the moment says you owe XXX to YYYY and not ZZZZ.

 

2) If the actual new OWNER of the debt says DO NOTHING (have this in writing) then what right do their collection dept have to proceed further without at least informing the alleged debtor that the conditions have now changed.

Or, perhaps as I suspect, anything, SAID or WRITTEN by these sorts of organisations has about as much use as used toilet paper.

 

Thanks for any advice on this -- I'm getting absolutely TOTALLY cheesed off with these outfits (APEX / PINNACLE) or whoever owns this lot.

 

I'd much rather make a decent F&F to the OC in any case once I get some money rather than deal with these HORRIBLE DCA's.

Edited April 4, 2011 by dcabuster45

[nicklea]

OK the SD can be set aside -- if they actually attempt to go to court to enforce it -- but I have two even more fundamental questions

 

If they go to court to enforce it then it will be a bankruptcy petition. You will then be too late to try and get it set aside as there is plenty of case law that if you do not get a SD set aside or you try and fail, then you cannot raise any issues at the bankruptcy petition to defend yourself.

 

What you need to do is to get the SD set aside - YOU need to do this. If you wait until they serve a bankruptcy petition on you then it will be too late.

[harrassed senior]

Just re-raising one of your original points, have they offered any proof that they have been to Court and varied the Order?

 

As has already been pointed out the SD, if it arrives and is delivered in the correct manner, must be set aside within 18 days so you would need to act fairly swiftly.

 

I would also report them to the OFT as they are using the threat of an SD as a means of debt collection, as this is frowned upon.

[dcabuster45]

Hi there

No' absolutely no proof whatsoever -- so I've sent the Please Prove that you are entitled to collect the debt".

 

Also to avoid misunderstandings their latest threatogram was to THREATEN sending a SD if I did,t eithe contact them or pay in full within 7 days".

 

What I was trying to find out was that IF they DID actually send an SD out (via of course the correct procedure) would they have even a smigen of a chance of getting away with this since

 

a) they haven't yet ascertained their authority to COLLECT the debt -- the CCJ / CO has a DIFFERENT CREDITOR on the Court judgement and until that judgement is altered there isn't any pending Court Order enforcement for this debt

 

and

 

b) Since the debt is effectively SECURED anyway by reason of the CO then they have no grounds in any case for attempting to issue an SD.

 

Of course I would go for a Set Aside if the SD ever appears -- but is there ANYTHING meanwhile one can do to these types of disgusting companies who seem to me just scaring people into paying up regrdless of whether the collection agency has the aurhority in the first place.

 

I have sent an invoice for "Admin fee" of £35 on nicely headed notepaper -- but following suggestions in another thread the "Compensation for Harassment" route might be more appropriate.

 

Anyway thanks to all CAGGERS -- at one time this stuff would have put the fear of God into me to say nothing of sleepless nights.

Reading these Forums one can only come to the conclusion what a totally evil, dishonest and disreputable industry this is and the quicker its properly regulated with TRANSPARENT and FAIR charges the better.

[NGEddie]

I thought Apex was the creditor and Pinnacle the DCA or at least their legal people? could be wrong!

 

Did they reply to your prove it letter?

 

It seems a common tactic of theirs to send many letters all at once, and from reading on here often with messed up dates by holding onto letters before sending them!

[harrassed senior]

You may like to try going down the harrassment route, the debt is secure and apart from the odd reminder, nothing more should be required. Are you paying anything under the CCJ, if not, how long between CCJ and CO?, and why has this not been 'collected' between date of CCJ and now? if you see where I am going. You could start with the Harrassment Template, and alter it to suit your circumstances, harrassment is deemed how YOU perceive it not in the amount or frequency of demands, or how they are made.

[nicklea]

Hi all

Well at the weekend they now have sent out an SD,

 

dcabuster,

 

In your first post you told us that they had sent you a SD. So you are now saying that they haven't?

[dcabuster45]

Hi there

I think I posted in subsequent threads (at least 2 times) that I made a mistake originally --they only sent a THREAT of getting an SD.

 

I'm sure in my posts I explained this quite clearly.