No CCA - Sent Postal Order Back ADVICE REQUIRED PLEASE

[PosterMeerkat]

Hi

 

Having sent Wescot a CCA + 1.00 postal oder, they sent it back saying they could not supply CCA and to send a PO to OC. Obviously, I sent them a letter in dispute. Today, I received a letter back from Wescot as follows:-

 

We replied to your fist letter, returning your original correspondence and 1.00 payment and advising you that as we are not the creditor the payment needs to be reissued in our clients name. We also asked to confirm your previous address for data protection reasons as you have failed to do this so far.

 

Your letter fails to address either of these points and you have failed to issue payment in our clients name. WE HAVE NOT FAILED TO COMPLY WITH YOUR REQUEST, YOU HAVE FAILED TO ISSUE IT.

 

Please respond with the above and payment, in the meantime your account will be passed to our recovery team for collection. (MISS BOWER)

 

Now, I was under the assumtion that has they were collecting and I sent the 1.00 P.0 they should supply the CCA. I am not intimidated by this MISS BOWER so she can trot on.

 

But, I would like members thoughts and advice on the above. Once again my grateful thanks to this site for giving me my life back, there is life after DCA's.

 

PM X

[cerberusalert]

They are obliged by the CCA 1974 to provide a copy;

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Complain to Trading Standards.

[Halibutt]

Cerberus is right - make a complaint.

 

They are obliged to respond correctly to your CCA request - regardless of whether they have bought the alleged debt or if they are simply acting as agents for the OC. If they are acting as agents, then they should simply request the relevant documents from the OC and reply to you accordingly.

 

Looks like these muppets (no offence to actual Muppets intended) have no idea what they're doing.

 

If you'd like a letter that you can use to respond to their latest missive, then you can send the account in serious dispute one from the library, or if you want further help composing something, let me know in this thread or by PM.

 

Good luck.

 

H. x

[PosterMeerkat]

Hi Halibutt and thanks to Cerb, I will take your advice. I have looked into the library and not sure which is the serious dispute letter? However Halibutt would you be so kind as to pen me a response to Wescot, I feel that to respond to their threatening letter will help others along the way. Thanks again. PM x

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

In my opinion that lettr should go straight into a complaint To OFT and trading standards asap.

[PosterMeerkat]

Hi Brig will do that too a.s.a.p. Thankyou.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I would be very tempted to send a copy to the Credit Services Association to mentioning the complaints

to OFT & TS to stir it up a bit!!¬

[nicklea]

Despite what the others say above, I would disagree.

 

They have written back to you and informed you that they are not the creditor. As a result of this it is clear that you have not made a valid request under sections 77/78.

 

The reason I say this is that you must pay the creditor a fee of one pound. However, you sent a postal order made payable to somebody else, so you haven't actually made a payment to the creditor.

 

Now, if you had sent in your request and a postal order for one pound made payable to the creditor then Wescott would be under an obligation to pass on your request to the creditor due to section 175. However, since you haven't done this then, I would suggest, they are quite correct when they say that they cannot pass it on to the creditor without a payment made payable to the creditor.

[nicklea]

They are obliged by the CCA 1974 to provide a copy;

 

Cerberus,

 

I would suggest that you are wrong on this point as they have clearly stated that they are not the creditor and so they are not obliged to so this

[Halibutt]

As Brigadier says, send all the complaints you can, along with evidence.

 

This is my take on the sort of letter I'd send. Please feel free to comment or change as necessary. It might be worthwhile waiting a day or so, just in case other CAG members suggest ammendments, etc.

 

THEIR ADDRESS

YOUR ADDRESS

DATE

BY ROYAL MAIL RECORDED DELIVERY

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re Account Number: 1234567890

ACCOUNT IN SERIOUS DISPUTE

I am in receipt of your letter, dated xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been duly noted.

You state that as you are “not the creditor,” that any payment for a CCA request needs to be directed and made payable to the Original Creditor.

May I remind you that whether you have purchased the above account, or if you are currently acting on behalf of the original creditor, your legal obligations in this case are covered by s.175 of the CCA 1974 as follows:

“If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.”

Your letter of xx/xx/xx also states:

“We also asked to confirm your previous address for data protection reasons as you have failed to do this so far.”

To date, you have sent correspondence to both my previous address and also my current address (above) and have therefore, presumably accepted my identity by default. If this is not the case, you would be in clear breach of the Data Protection Act, 1998 and therefore be liable to appropriate Court action and resulting penalties.

I am enclosing (again) a copy of my CCA request, originally sent on xx/xx/xx but returned by you in error, accompanied by the statutory payment, and expect you to now fully comply with this as you are obliged to do so by English law. You have twelve working days from receipt of this letter to adequately respond to my request.

I will be making a formal complaint about your company’s conduct to any and all relevant regulatory bodies as I see fit and have retained copies of all correspondence sent by your company. Copies of your correspondence will accompany my complaint letters where relevant.

I hereby formally request a full copy of your company’s official complaints procedure by return post.

Should you fail to provide documentation as requested in this letter, it will be presumed that you do not hold the required documentation to pursue this account and therefore have no legal right whatsoever to either instigate or continue any collection activity on the above account. In which case, I will expect no further correspondence from you, unless it is:

· Your due compliance with my legal request for a true copy of the relevant Consumer Credit Agreement

· Your due compliance with my legal request for a copy of your formal complaints procedures

· Your implicit assurance that you will no longer attempt to pursue the above account and the guarantee of the removal of any and all entries made by your company and/or its representatives on my credit reference file with any and all credit reference agencies

Any other correspondence will be deemed to be both unhelpful and vexatious and will be used in accompaniment to further complaints to the relevant regulatory bodies.

Should you not understand the content of this letter or your legal obligations under s.175 of the CCA 1974, then you should seek legal advice.

I look forward to your appropriate written response at your earliest convenience.

Yours faithfully,

[Bazooka Boo]

Nicklea, your in danger of jumping the gun here, I can't see where the OP specifically stated that the PO was sent with payment marked payable to Wetcloths, I could be wrong, but if the PO was sent blank then wetcloths are in default. Even if the PO was marked payable to wetcloths, why didn't they cash it and send the request with the payment to the OC?

 

Oh yes that's right, because they think we all came down in the last shower, and they are simply attempting to frustrate the process, I fully agree that it is the OC who supplies the CCA, but this is done via their chosen third party if they choose to use one. The request, in whatever format, and with whatever payment made payable to the OC or otherwise, STILL needs to be forwarded on, I strongly doubt that they really are so pedantic as to dispute £1, if they are then they don't reflect this in any of their computer generated missives.

 

Account in dispute, FAILED to provide a legitimate legal request.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Good advice H!!

[Halibutt]

Cerberus,

 

I would suggest that you are wrong on this point as they have clearly stated that they are not the creditor and so they are not obliged to so this

 

Please see the reference in bold at the top of my suggested letter. I know what you mean, but the DCA can use the £1 payment in response to a CCA request - it doesn't have to be the OC as funds (if necessary) can be transferred. They just don't want to do it as it creates more work

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Agreed jut bl**dy mindedness

[Halibutt]

Thanks Brigadier. I hope my draft letter is of some help.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi H

sorry about the poor typing 4 hours out the OT anaesthetics work wonders:madgrin:

[nicklea]

Bazooka,

 

If you read the original post you will see that the OP did make the postal order payable to Wescott. I have hioghlighted the relevant parts from that post below:-

 

Hi

Today, I received a letter back from Wescot as follows:-

 

We replied to your fist letter, returning your original correspondence and 1.00 payment and advising you that as we are not the creditor the payment needs to be reissued in our clients name.

 

Your letter fails to address either of these points and you have failed to issue payment in our clients name. WE HAVE NOT FAILED TO COMPLY WITH YOUR REQUEST, YOU HAVE FAILED TO ISSUE IT.

 

The reason that they don't cash it and then make out another payment to the creditor is exactly as cerberus says above, it's time and money for them. From their point of view, why should they go out of their way to help you?

 

Although it may seem very petty, I would suggest that they are quite within their rights to return the payment and ask that it be made payable to the creditor.

 

A request to a creditor MUST be accompanied by a payment to that creditor. If you choose not to do that then the creditor is under no obligation to respond to you.

 

I would suggest that - strange as this may sound - I believe that Wescott are actually helping in this case as they have pointed out the mistake that has been made. If they hadn't of done this and the OP then later tries to rely on this failure to respond in a court case he would not be able to use it as he hadn't actually made the correct payment.

[nicklea]

Halibutt,

 

A couple of comments

 

As Brigadier says, send all the complaints you can, along with evidence.

 

This is my take on the sort of letter I'd send. Please feel free to comment or change as necessary.

 

I am enclosing (again) a copy of my CCA request, originally sent on xx/xx/xx but returned by you in error, accompanied by the statutory payment, and expect you to now fully comply with this as you are obliged to do so by English law. You have twelve working days from receipt of this letter to adequately respond to my request.

 

This is what they are waiting for - payment to the creditor

 

Should you fail to provide documentation as requested in this letter, it will be presumed that you do not hold the required documentation to pursue this account and therefore have no legal right whatsoever to either instigate or continue any collection activity on the above account. In which case, I will expect no further correspondence from you, unless it is:

 

· Your implicit assurance that you will no longer attempt to pursue the above account and the guarantee of the removal of any and all entries made by your company and/or its representatives on my credit reference file with any and all credit reference agencies

They do not require an enforceable agreement to do the above. Collection activity is not enforcement. Also, if you wish to deal with your credit reference file then you will need to do this using the Data Protection Act not the Consumer Credit Act

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

???? any answers to this, I would need to investigate the above views before further comment

[cerberusalert]

Despite what the others say above, I would disagree.

 

They have written back to you and informed you that they are not the creditor. As a result of this it is clear that you have not made a valid request under sections 77/78.

 

The reason I say this is that you must pay the creditor a fee of one pound. However, you sent a postal order made payable to somebody else, so you haven't actually made a payment to the creditor.

 

Now, if you had sent in your request and a postal order for one pound made payable to the creditor then Wescott would be under an obligation to pass on your request to the creditor due to section 175. However, since you haven't done this then, I would suggest, they are quite correct when they say that they cannot pass it on to the creditor without a payment made payable to the creditor.

 

The Act requires that a CCA must be provided on request with the payment of £1 it makes no mention to whome the payment must be made but if Wetcloths own the debt or are even just collecting on behalf of the OC the responsibility is theirs and as such I don't think it is unreasonable that any payment should be made to them, after all an alleged debtor may not even be aware who the supposed OC actually is.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I think that says it all !!!

[nicklea]

The Act requires that a CCA must be provided on request with the payment of £1 it makes no mention to whome the payment must be made but if Wetcloths own the debt or are even just collecting on behalf of the OC the responsibility is theirs and as such I don't think it is unreasonable that any payment should be made to them, after all an alleged debtor may not even be aware who the supposed OC actually is.

 

The Act actually says that a creditor must reply when the creditor receives a request in writing and the creditor also receives a payment of one pound. That seems clear enough to me about mentioning who payment should be made to. Please have a read of subsection 1 of the relevant sections if you are unsure on this point. If the creditor does not receive payment then they do not have to respond.

 

In this case, if Wescott were to pass this request on to the OC then they would not have to reply as they had not received any payment - the payment was made payable to a third party not to the creditor. They have therefore not received any payment and so do not have to respond.

 

From what the OP has said, it is clear that Wescott have never claimed to own the debt but are acting on behalf of their clients.

 

From what you have said it appears that you have never received any letters from these people before - well let me just say, I certainly have in the past. They do say who the client is so it is clear on whose behalf they are attempting to collect.

[rhos123]

Despite what the others say above, I would disagree.

 

They have written back to you and informed you that they are not the creditor. As a result of this it is clear that you have not made a valid request under sections 77/78.

 

The reason I say this is that you must pay the creditor a fee of one pound. However, you sent a postal order made payable to somebody else, so you haven't actually made a payment to the creditor.

 

Now, if you had sent in your request and a postal order for one pound made payable to the creditor then Wescott would be under an obligation to pass on your request to the creditor due to section 175. However, since you haven't done this then, I would suggest, they are quite correct when they say that they cannot pass it on to the creditor without a payment made payable to the creditor.

 

i sent my cca request to these bunch of muppets at wescot , the postal order was endorsed in pen payable to wescot / lloyds tsb . (their client) stupid fools returned the p/o with a covering letter saying please send this p/o to lloyds tsb, as we are not the original creditor. right so why are you asking me for payment then! i was under the impression that these dcas had some sort of a credit licence, and if so then they should know the rules! i have since sent the wescot fools a letter stating i will indeed not pay them a single penny! when their clients lloyds tsb contact me i will send the original £1 p/o to them and they will again be offered a token payment.

[cerberusalert]

In this case, if Wescott were to pass this request on to the OC then they would not have to reply as they had not received any payment - the payment was made payable to a third party not to the creditor. They have therefore not received any payment and so do not have to respond.

s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon them to pass the request to the original creditor.

From what you have said it appears that you have never received any letters from these people before - well let me just say, I certainly have in the past. They do say who the client is so it is clear on whose behalf they are attempting to collect.

But I have & I know exactly how to deal with them too.

[Halibutt]

I think it comes down to who actually now owns the account. If it's Westcott, then they should reply. If they're acting as agents, then they should still reply after requesting info from the OC. If they want to argue that the payment should have been made out to the OC, then surely one could simply bypass Westcott in any and all correspondence - deal with the OC only?

 

The point made in the references in my draft letter was that if they don't consider themselves to be the owner of the accont, they should honour the CCA request by requesting info from the OC or passing on both the request and relevant payment.