General Debt Issue

[rondodiver]

Hi All

 

I'll cut straight to the point, sadly my Father died recently and having to deal with his affairs has been a bit of a struggle as there was some debts which were unknown to me, and knowing my dad as I did he would never have told me anyway. He left a few bob without a will so the affairs are being dealt with under the laws of intestacy.

 

Anyway I uncovered a debt management plan with Spectrum Financial and of course appointed solicitors to act on my behalf for all the legal stuff surrounding death etc.

 

Now I have noticed that one of the debts has grown in size by almost 50% since spectrum were dealing with this in 2003.

 

I have the paperwork dealing with the debt plan but it looks like my Father was completely ill advised as looking at his income and expenditure statement there is no way he could have even afforded £1 a month let alone the c. £23 he was paying £4 to the creditors and c. £18 to Spectrum.

 

My question is is there anything I can do to reduce the impact ? as I do not want to go down the route of having to declare him Bankrupt after his death. Is there any recourse against spectrum for mis advising him IMHO or do I need to challenge the creditors to prove the debt ? (one of them being cabot) i.e notice of assigment from Loan company and Credit Card company or asking for agreements sar's etc

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I am considering revoking power of attorney to the solicitors and now dealing with this myself purely to stop the bankruptcy issue

[bluedogx]

The debts should be written off by the creditors unless there is an estate - house with equity, life insurances etc. Funeral costs are priority though.

 

The creditors will need a copy of the death certificate.

 

The solicitors may deal with it for you but will charge.

 

Hope you're coping ok

 

B

[rondodiver]

Hi thanks for the reply I am doing okay had a very difficult period and it still hurts like hell but coping thanks

 

I phoned the solicitors acting on my behalf today and explained the situation and they have agreed that there is something not entirley right, and have agreed to dispute the amounts that have been requested and look into the situation further and suspend any payments to them until more information is available

 

We are also requesting a full statement of account from 2003 to see what payments were made as my Father was in a DMP with spectrum. I have also asked the solicitor to get Cabot to prove they actually own the debts. Notice of assigments CCA's etc.

 

I could be completely wrong here but I smell a rat and I also think my Father was given extremely bad advice but given the fact he was poorly at the time he just agreed to anything. And for his peace of mind I will find out and take these people to task.

 

Some advice on this may be helpful I want to Send a SAR to this lot how can I do this for a deceased person can some one enlighten me please or point me in the right direction for some further info.

 

 

Cheers

[bluedogx]

I'll see what I can find out for you. Meanwhile you could phone the FOS and ask their opinion on your queries.

 

Payments should be stopped now though while the estate is wound up and you try to figure out what to do next.

 

If no one else replies tonight, bump your thread in the morning. I'll get back to you if I can.

 

B

[cerberusalert]

The Executor of the estate has a legal right to request a SAR & withold payments to anyone whilst the Estate is being wound up, this could take a year or so in some cases.

 

Also remember as an Executor you are not expected to be out of pocket, any expenses incurred can be taken from the Estate before any creditors are paid. If there are insufficient funds at the end of the day then it is the creditors that lose out it is not the Executors personal debt & they are not liable for any shortfall.

[rondodiver]

Hi

 

Have today instructed solicitor to query the balances and ask for a full statement of account from Cabot, and also to check that they are in fact legally able to collect the debts as from what I can gather they would have boughts the debts from Providian Credit Card (never heard of them) and also Centrica Part of AA I am led to believe, I also know that there are some solicitors involved Fenton Cooper (not heard of them either) which are on my Dad's DMP list. Can anyone shed any light on the aformentioned companies please.

[cerberusalert]

This is an example of Fenton Cooper http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?295917-Tessera-One-debt-two-debt-collection-agencies&highlight=Fenton+Cooper but if you enter the names in the search box in the grey bar at the top right of this page you'll get a list.

[rondodiver]

Hi

 

I am going to send a SAR to spectrum, however as this is not for me but my Father is there a different method, letter etc. I need to get all the correspondance for the DMP with Spectrum including any agreements they made with freezing interest etc. I ideally would like to just write and politely ask for it but I suspect I will get nowhere so would like to have a formal letter up my sleeve .

 

I have asked solicitors for a full statement of accounts from the creditors, we shall see if they comply.

 

Thanks

[cerberusalert]

You can just edit a SAR to suit by adding a paragraph that you are dealing with the Estate & include a copy of the death certificate. Once they receive that they'll realise to play ball otherwise they'll get nothing.

[rondodiver]

Hi All

 

Minor update decided to contact spectrum and request by phone any information relating to my Fathers DMP, I accept that the conversation was pleasent and to some extent constructive, it appears to me that they really do not know what they are doing or even care.

 

They have agreed to send as much inormation as I have requested but I wont hold my breath until it arrives.

 

I'll wait till it arrives but I am even more certain that my Father was misadvised now so now need to think on what to do next with this lot. I should have done this years ago, hindsight is a wonderful thing, but then my Father would never have told me the problems but at least now I can maybe begin to sort things out for him.

 

[rondodiver]

Hi

 

Been reading loads tonight about Spectrum especially, has been very enlightning, not many good words said about them. Anyway still no details from them maybe this mornings post will provide some fruit. Best not to hold my breath

[rondodiver]

Hi All

 

Well as expected Spectrum sent diddly squat so letter time to them for the inofrmation I want. Have heard from Solicitors and all the creditors have now been in touch with only 1 supplying a full statement of payements since 2003 showing the £1 paid each month and the balance has actually fallen. Cabot continue to be evasive however solicitor has said that they are sending a full statement of accounts.

 

The solicitor has also advised me that we are quite within our rights to offer a settlement of the outstanding amount as they have been outstanding for the last 8 years and even if my father had survived another 20 years they would never have been paid so I may just offer 10% as a goodwill gesture, I might add that at the moment there is sufficient funds to meet this from the estate.

 

One thing that puzzles me is Cabot's statement that the difference between the starting balance and the balance now is accrued interest, aren't cabot a DCA ? and if so without an agreement between them and my Father are they allowed to add interest? or do they collect the money for the orginal creditor and pass it on to them. Can anyone offer and opinions on this.

I assumed Cabot would have boought this debt fromAA and Providian for a pittance and are now trying to make a bit more money.? I would have also thought that if they did buy it for say 10% of its amount then if they manage to get 100% for it they should pass the other 90% to the orginal creditor. Any thought appreciated.

 

Will now look around for a suitable F&F letter to send to Cabot and Fenton Cooper unless anyone has a sutable one to hand that can relate to this issue.

 

Thanks for reading

[cerberusalert]

aren't cabot a DCA ? and if so without an agreement between them and my Father are they allowed to add interest? or do they collect the money for the orginal creditor and pass it on to them.

Yes they are & it depends whether they've bought the debt or acting on behalf of the o/c whether interest can still be added. If it still belongs to the o/c then interest can be added if they have bought the debt it depends on the terms of the agreement between your father & the o/c.

 

Don't forget to factor in all your costs + solicitors fees which are paid first as a priority from the Estate before you offer any pro rata payments to your fathers creditors. It may also be advisable to place a notice in a paper such as the London Gazette inviting creditors to make a claim. By doing this it covers you and the Estate from being bitten on the bum by any creditor crawling out of the woodwork in the future.

[rondodiver]

I doubt if there was any agreement between Cabot and my Father as he would have pretty much ignored the situation but regrettfully I'll never know. So if the debt still belongs to the O/C would cabot pass any offer or settlement on to them or is it worth dealing with the O/C direct and bypassing Cabot. All costs and solicitors fees are covered from the estate and the solicitors have got some insurance regarding future debts and I believe they are placing the advert in one of the Loondon Papers and if they don't I think I may do it as a matter of course which then gives belt and braces for the future.

 

I know who the O/C's are now I wonder if its worth contacting them direct so as to ensure the DCA's do not get any of the money.

[cerberusalert]

So if the debt still belongs to the O/C would cabot pass any offer or settlement on to them or is it worth dealing with the O/C direct and bypassing Cabot.

If they are dealing on behalf of the o/c they should pass it on yes, but as things stand unless they can prove a debt exists and they have a right to payment you are not bound to offer them anything. Your responsibility is to the Estate not to them so it is equally important that you pay legitimate debts as much as it is that no erroneous payments are made from it.

I know who the O/C's are now I wonder if its worth contacting them direct so as to ensure the DCA's do not get any of the money.

It all depends whether Cabot have bought the debt or not, if not at the end of the day they are acting as agents for the OC so it their responsibility to ensure any legal requests or offers you make are passed back.

[rondodiver]

What proof should I seek to obtain to prove that they can legally collect the debt, and I am sure my Solicitor should know all this but I would like to be able to suggest it in my emails without them thinking I am trying to tell them, how to suck eggs

[cerberusalert]

They would need to provide a copy of the agreement, notice of assignment & a statement of the account.

 

No enforceable agreement = no enforceable debt.

[rondodiver]

According to Cabot we are within our rights to make an offer of payment. I have an offer in mind at the moment £0. Anyway Fenton Cooper have asked if there is enough money in the estate to satisfy the oustanding balance. and they have sent a statement of all payments since 2003 which even shows the debt has reduced slightly. We have responded and I have asked for Notice of Assignment and Agreements signed so we shall wait and see.

 

Think this is going to take a long time.

 

I have also sent a SAR to Spectrum Financial shall see if they actually respond.

[cerberusalert]

Think this is going to take a long time.

As I said earlier, it could take a year to sort, that's why an advert in the Gazette is advisable in case more lifeforms crawl out of the woodwork.

[rondodiver]

Hi I have been looking back through some letters from the solicitor and it seems they are not going to be putting an ad in the London Gazette but instead have taken an insurance policy to indemnify themselves against any future claim, however that then leaves us open to the insurance company claiming monies back from us. Would it be advisable to instruct the solicitors to put the ad in anyway as having done some reading on that type of advert it stops any future claims in its tracks

[cerberusalert]

however that then leaves us open to the insurance company claiming monies back from us.

Not necessarily, if the duties of the Executor have been taken over in full by the solicitor you are covered, if you are joint Executors the solicitor may have included you in the policy... it's worth checking.

[cerberusalert]

Executors can simply refuse to act and provided they have not ‘intermeddled’ with the estate, can swear an Oath to this effect and walk away. If however they have started to interfere with the assets, written some letters saying they will act or done anything that effects the estate, even if only for the better, then they may find the Probate Registry will not allow them to renounce their right to be an Executor, because it will not allow them to avoid liability for their actions, whether well intentioned or otherwise.

[rondodiver]

Have just made a few phone calls to the orginal creditors, and they do not have any records of the outstanding debts claimed by FC and Cabot. I still want to track down providian however I am drawing a blank on this one have tried Barclaycard who I thought took over Providan after they were took over by Monument, they do not have any account with the number I have or indeed with my Fathers name nor ecords whatsover. The other 2 have no records now relating to any accounts my Father had with them. Could he have been duped by the DCA ? probably unlikely. Anynone got any ideas on how to track providian, I have already sent a SAR to Spectrum will be now doing the same to Cabot and FC which will probably answer my questions.

[cerberusalert]

If the debts were sold more than six years ago it's possible that the original lenders have destroyed the paperwork, they are only required to keep it under the Money Laundering & the Data Protection Acts for six years. If they have it puts the DCAs in a sticky wicket because they will not have & will not be able to provide the documentation to prove the enforceability of the debt.

[cerberusalert]

Anynone got any ideas on how to track providian,

It ends with Barclays, if they cannot produce enforceable documentation then they do not get paid.