General Debt Issue

[The GodMother]

U need to SAR barclays and if they cant find anything they need to write to u advising that. Then u can advise them what the repayment will be. EG nothing

[rondodiver]

Well as suspected Spectrum have refused to supply any information regarding the SAR I sent stating that a SAR does not apply to deceased persons and I quote "Unfortunately as your father is now deceased we cannot grant your wish for full access to all of the information held as a SAR is only applicable to living people who require the information for themselves", they have supplied ceditor inormation but I already have that I want the information relating to the debt plan, need to find out about SAR for living people etc.

[cerberusalert]

you could force their hand and tell them unless they provide the information you request they will not be included as creditors to the Estate as they have not provided the proof of any alleged debt to your satisfaction.

[cerberusalert]

If they could prove the debt was enforceable they would have bent over backwards to provide it.

[rondodiver]

I have just been reading so of the act and cannot see where it specifies living persons can anyone enlighten me.

I will also probably phone the ICO on monday and get their take on it.

[rondodiver]

Looks like they are right have just found it on the ICO website just here

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/Global/faqs/data_protection_for_the_public.aspx#fD03805B1-1EE7-4E51-AA0B-AD8C5006A067

[cerberusalert]

They still have to prove to the Executors satisfaction that a debt is legally owed and enforceable.

[rondodiver]

They still have to prove to the Executors satisfaction that a debt is legally owed and enforceable.

 

 

quick update whilst I know they have to prove that a debt is legally owed I/we have recieved a letter basically asking and I quote "is there is enough money in the estate to cover the oustanding balance" without any proof of legality I am assuming they are asking us to disclose the estate assets, do I / we have to do that? we have asked for a full statement of account plus agreements etc which have not been forthcoming.

 

This is getting very frustrating why cant they just play ball and sort this lot out.

[cerberusalert]

do I / we have to do that?

No, any debts which have to be paid from an estate are in a strict pecking order, i.e priority debts first and foremost such as government debts, court judgements then any monies left should be distributed on a pro-rata basis.

we have asked for a full statement of account plus agreements etc which have not been forthcoming.

Until they provide this information they have no legal claim to any payment.

This is getting very frustrating why cant they just play ball and sort this lot out.

Because the numpties that are replying have less knowledge about the law than my dog.

[rondodiver]

No, any debts which have to be paid from an estate are in a strict pecking order, i.e priority debts first and foremost such as government debts, court judgements then any monies left should be distributed on a pro-rata basis.

 

Cerberusalert Understand all that and appreciate the remarks so basically I do not have to tell them what the estate value is ? the onus is on them to prove it.

[cerberusalert]

I do not have to tell them what the estate value is ?

No.

the onus is on them to prove it.

Yes.

[rondodiver]

We are now in a position to finalise things etc however FC and Cabot are holding things up by not replying to requests to supply statement of accounts etc, how long do I have to give these people to respond ? they have been chased by my solicitor etc and I have informed my solicitor that if it would help I would contact them and try to hurry them up. However would it be unreasonable to now put a maximum timeframe for response to them of 14 days and if they dont respond then they forfiet any claim etc.

[cerberusalert]

Tell them straight that the Estate is about to be finalized & unless they provide the information requested within 14 days they will not be included.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

A cheap advert in the legal notices of a news paper is a legal announcement that you are winding up the estate

in 7 days and that claims after that are null and void.

Applies even if they don't see it.

[rondodiver]

HI All

 

Quick update FC supplied statement of accounts and they looked in order so made an offer and they accepted 10% pretty good result me thinks.

 

However Cabot are another story, they cant access accounts, have failed to send statements to one of the accounts and asked for details of the estate assetts liabilities etc, of course that has been refused as it none of their business. Had intially offered 10% on both accounts which so far no response but as they haven't supplied evidence we have now withdrawn the offer and given them 7 days to supply statements and signed agreements, I suspect they wont be able to. Any views on next steps if they cannot supply the information as this is the only thing outstanding. I did say to my solicitors to exclude them if they didn't supply but I believe we are not at liberty to do that, and I think she wasn't keen on that idea.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Surely if they fail to adequately prove the debt, they must be excluded,another reasonable doubt situation?

[cerberusalert]

If they cannot prove the Estate has a liability they should be exluded.

 

If I sent your solicitor a bill stating the estate owed me a debt would he suggest paying it?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Cerbs are there no time limits on making claims against estates,there are always

notices in our local paper stating that all creditors who believe they have a claim must provide proof

within xxxx or be excluded no claims will be entertained after that date.

[cerberusalert]

Once you have collected in all of the estate's assets, you should put a Trustee Act notice in a local paper and in the London Gazette. This is so you can distribute the estate without incurring personal liability for any debts it owes. The notice should include the full name, address and occupation of the deceased, as well as the date of their death and your contact details.

 

You need to set out a time limit for people with claims against the estate to contact you. The minimum is two months and one day after the publication date. When this period has passed, you can distribute the estate.

[rondodiver]

Hi Cerbs and Brigadier

 

I totally agree with your comments and I have suggested they are excluded however, we have now given them 7 days to provide signed agreement and statements (I dont believe they can). Its the next step in terms of legality once the 7 days has passed can I then say they are totally excluded for not supplying the proof and suggest they go away and dont bother us again, we know they are saying there is a claim so contact has been made but no proof forthcoming this has been going on now since late March so in reality they have had adequate time.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

No strict proof no liability.

A debt allegedly owed by an estate of a deceased person must

have strict proof of liability, once the notice is issued they have no choice but to put up or shut up.

keep the timing strict, it's usually timed say 1600 hrs on XXX

no claims after this time and date will be admitted.

On this point a doubt reconstituted toilet paper will suffice.

I'll pass this over to Cerbs for expert opinion.

Edited June 3, 2011 by BRIGADIER2JCS

[rondodiver]

No strict proof no liability.

On this point a doubt reconstituted toilet paper will suffice.

 

Hi Brig

 

Not sure what you mean by the above, however we know a debt exists in some form via Spectrum Financial who my father had a DMP with, but we have absolutely no paperwork in relation to this debt, statements agreements or anything. Had this still been with the OC then no questions asked, however as it is with a DCA then I am challenging it and asked for the proof and they haven't provided anything as yet. Also to see how come the debt escalated from 4k to nearly 7k when interest should have been stopped. But i totally agree no proof no liability and I am sending an email to solicitors to say exactly that and suggesting they don't get paid unless proof is forthcoming. I am also oing to suggest that as we encourage them to write the debt off as no proof available

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Just that put to the test they are likely to try and get away with a badly

reconstituted agreement and/or reconstituted statements and the like.

pers I would stick for the moment with the notice of intent to close the estate

within 7 days if they fail on that they will have a hell of a job to enforce or claim any thing, the statement

that no further claims will be admitted after a certain date should kill the claim.

If yo have a read of any of the notices in the newspapers you will it

says quite clearly any one who believes they have claim on the estate MUST PROVE THE DEBT.

Edited June 4, 2011 by BRIGADIER2JCS

[rondodiver]

 

Hi All

 

Update I have received this from Cabot and need to respoind quickly but would like to clarify a couple of points in the letter i.e timelines etc Cabot state no deadlines can be used and also the tosh they have sent me regarding statements on of them doesn't even bear my fathers name on it. They have also admitted that they would only be able to supply an aplication form.

 

Really could do with some help regarding a response please

[cerberusalert]

If they cannot provide the documents then they cannot prove there is an enforceable debt.