Help! Car repossessed, only 1 month behind, not received Termination letter..

[clio2010]

Have you took them to court yet or is it pending?

[GSMGuy]

Have you took them to court yet or is it pending?

 

No, this has not been to court yet, but it looks like I am going to have to issue proceedings myself against Santander - Anyone got any idea of the cost of doing so?

 

Mike

[DragonInLondon]

Wow - that played out, literally word for word, like 'mcjohnson' said it would....

[GSMGuy]

Wow - that played out, literally word for word, like 'mcjohnson' said it would....

 

Far from it..

 

Mike

[GSMGuy]

Ok, time to stop messing around with them now, they are just trying to cover their tracks - What do they hope to gain by stating "we have no record of the letter you refer to" when we HAVE the letter...

 

Had a brief chat with Sol today, and he is going to draft the necessary documents for a Court Hearing, and send them, initially to Santanders' sol, saying basically;

 

"Look we know you are in the wrong, we have the paperwork to prove it, even though your client denies sending the letter(s), so - Let's ask a Judge to take a look at this and decide, as we are confident he/she will find for our client - This can of course (along with the additional costs) be easily avoided"

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

Mike

[clio2010]

Hi any updates yet?

[GSMGuy]

Hi any updates yet?

 

Not yet - Solicitor is drafting papers for Court...

 

Mike

[GSMGuy]

Ok, time for some updates to this...

 

After my last post in July, we pretty much hit a stalemate, with their last "threat" being one of issuing proceedings, and our retort that a counterclaim would follow..

 

Then, I struck lucky, and got into an email exchange with the Queen of illegal repos - None other than Wannabedebtfreesoon! (Who by the way has been FANTASTIC!!)

 

So, after some silence... On the 6th of August, a County Court Summmons arrived on the doorstep, with a date of service stamped on it of 2nd August (not a good start) anyway, rang Sol, who advised me to send off for him to look at, and in the process we forgot to sign the damn AOS.. So it had to come back to us, and finally got faxed to the court on the 14th day after we received it.... Lo and behold, a week later it was returned to us, as default judgement had been entered.....

 

After reeling a bit from this, a closer inspection (by WBDFS (abbreviated sorry!)) revealed a few errors in the POC themselves, and I also uncovered a few more, meaning that basically all the figures on the POC were in fact, incorrect!

 

So, fired off an app to set aside, and allow us to file a counterclaim - Based on the fact that the papers were late getting to us, and that the other side were well aware of the counterclaim, and that we have a good chance of success...

 

Got a date for the hearing, which was today @ 3:30pm... Guess what - A witness statement/objection to application landed on the mat - on Saturday morning.... It actuall made for hillarious reading, saying that I should not be allowed to represent Mrs GSM, as she was "neither a child nor incapable" it also then went on to mention my lack of referring to CPR 13 and a whole other bunch of technicalities....

 

Nonetheless, we traipsed off to Court this afternoon, me fully prepared to introduce myself to the Judge as a Lay Representative, and reques a right of audience...

 

When we got to Court, their rep was waiting, and asked us if we would like to "discuss matters" prior to going in - I explained that I thought we were here for the Judge to decide matters, and therefore that wouldn't be necessary... She then said "when will your representative be arriving" to which my reply was "you are talking to him now"

 

We were then called in, to sit in front of a male Judge..

 

From the off, he was FANBLOODYTASTIC! Straight off, he acknowled me, and Mrs GSM, and thanked us for attending, he addressed me directly without the need for me to introduce myself or request an audience....

 

He then turned to the Claimant's rep... saying "I am in receipt of your statment/objections to this application, and I note you have pointed out several technicalities, and lack of correct format within the application, and quite frankly, I am not impressed.. (He then went on) I have studied Mr GSM's application, and although it is in letter form, I find it to be concise and legally competent, I also find that there are severeal triable matters contained within it, and for that reason, I am "for" the Applicant in this matter"

 

Their rep then started to spiel out bits about incorrect protocol, and the history of DD's etc.... At which point the Judge stopped her and asked "Why are you recounting the history of this matter, this is not a trial - Next you will be asking me to swear Mr GSM in and ask him to testify as to his evidence"

 

She stuttered and became flustered at this point - VISIBLY!! She then said "that is a matter for yourself to decide Sir, I am merely poiting out the correct protocols"

 

 

BANG - "I will be the one to decide what protocols I think are required in MY courtroom Miss Smith!"

 

She then moved onto costs (They had attached an app for costs of over £700 to the statement) The Judge was straight onto it - "Mr & Mrs GSM have had the time and expense of attending today, when this could easily have been avoided - They have a viable case, and I am prepared to see this matter through - Your application for costs is REFUSED"

 

So, order to file counterclaim within 14 days, and judgement set aside!!!

 

RESULT!!!

 

Mike

[Surfer01]

Good stuff. Keep at them.

[GSMGuy]

Ok,

 

In light of the way things went yesterday (well!)...

 

A "Part 36 Offer to Settle" will shortly be wending it's way to Santander's solicitors....

 

Something along the lines of...

 

 

“As you will be aware, at the hearing on 10th October, judgement was set aside and your application for costs was refused, as the DJ considers our counterclaim not only to contain triable issues, but also that it has a “real prospect of success” in accordance with CPR 13.3(1)(a)

 

Our current position is that we will be filing a defence and counterclaim with the Court as prescribed in the order made on the 10th October, and we are happy to proceed with this and confident that the Judge will once again find in our favour, indeed – considering the amounts involved in our counterclaim we now intend to appoint a Solicitor and/or Counsel to act on our behalf and also recover their fees as part of our counterclaim.

 

However, in order to bring this 8 month old matter to a close, and to avoid further costs, we are prepared to offer settlement as follows, on a without prejudice (save for costs) basis;

 

Repayment of all monies paid under the agreement, in the sum of £4879.98

Court fees paid to date in the sum of £85.00

Legal fees paid to date in the sum of £1170.00 (£975+vat)

Reimbursement of alternative vehicle hire expenses incurred to date in the sum of £5840.00

Total: £11974.98

Plus return of possessions and items still with the vehicle, as detailed to you by letter and fax on 14th Feb 2011 and acknowledged in your letters, or the replacement value, again as previously advised in the sum of £2100

 

Alternatively, we would be willing to accept the return of the vehicle, plus monies paid under the agreement in the sum of £4879.98 as obviously, the return of the vehicle would include the items taken with it.”

Let's see what happens next..

 

Don't get me wrong, we are fully prepared to go to the line with this, but after 8 months of stress, and the fact that Mrs GSM is heavily pregnant with our 8th child, I would rather just have our car and the monies paid back. Whilst I have still actually forked out for the car hire and other expenses, it's not as if there is a massive bill sitting here waiting to be paid... And we have not had the HP payments or insurance/running costs associated with our own car whilst we have been paying for the hired one.

 

Plus, the car plus £5k is worth more than getting circa £14k cash...

 

The key thing is, we have taken a stand and fought for our rights, as WBDFS pointed out to me..

 

 

 

Mike

Edited October 12, 2011 by GSMGuy

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Good for you

 

Don't forget the release from liability, you don't want this rearing it's ugly head ever again!! x

[GSMGuy]

Good for you

 

Don't forget the release from liability, you don't want this rearing it's ugly head ever again!! x

 

Amended... Just before sol was about to fax it..

Cheers for the reminder!

 

Mike

[GSMGuy]

Ok,

 

Just received from my Solicitor (who sent on my behalf - Thought it would look better coming from him)

 

Copies of formal "Part 36 - Offer to settle" as faxed to Santander yesterday, and posted too...

 

Lets see what happens now..

 

Mike

[GSMGuy]

Ok, just had an email from my Sol...

 

Part 36 offer rejected, and their Sols are requesting sight of defence/counterclaim - However, I have yet to receive the order made last Monday, so don't know what the DJ has actually ordered in respect to filing of docs etc... I assume, due to the value of the claim/counterclaim, that there will be AQ's sent out??

 

Mike

[GSMGuy]

Ok, after MUCH chasing, AQ's finally sent out last week... For some reason, the court office had not seen the DJ's instructions on the file..

Notably, Santander have been SILENT since the hearing on 10th Oct, not a dicky bird has been heard..

 

They have filed their AQ, along with a statement as to why our counterclaim should not be allowed, citing it "not bewing in the correct format and without a "statement of truth attached"

 

However, the order made by the DJ on 10th Oct was -;

 

1. Judgement be set aside.

2. The letter dated xxxxxx annexed to the Defendant's application shall stand as Defendant's defence.

3. No order as to costs.

 

So, surely the fact that the DJ has ordered it be allowed makes it ok, in whatever format? (It' actually a letter sent by my Sol friend to Santander, basically outlining the full case, and where they have acted incorrectly, the DJ said it was "clear from the letter that the case raises triable issues and it says all there is to say about the defence")

 

Also what track should I be asking for??

 

Help please... GTG get kids from school.. Must dash..

 

Mike

[GSMGuy]

A little update - As hopefully nothing will be happening over the next 2 weeks lol!

 

AQ filed with the Court, got Sol to pencil in the dretails for me, have asked that it is allocated to fast track, at our local Court, as Mrs GSM is due to give birth in 5 weeks, so travelling too far away from home is not really an option..

 

Sol told us to tick "Yes" to "do you wish yo try and settle, and do you want a months stay" even though we have made them a part 36 offer, which they refused...

 

Lets see what happens next..

 

Mike

 

PS best wishes to all for a great Xmas and New Year!

[GSMGuy]

Ok, so just received back from the court, notification that "upon considering the case and AQ's the DJ (who overturned the judgement and told them off) has allocated this case to the Fast Track to be heard on 23rd May @ our local court..

 

The Claimant (Santander) to pay £545 hearing fee on or before 18th April.

 

I wonder if it's now worth asking my Sol to fire off another letter, on an "invitation of your offer to settle" basis, seeing as they now have to fork out more money??

 

Mike

[GSMGuy]

Ok, so got Sol to fire a letter off to them, asking if they would like to reconsider their position, and today, via Sol, received a Part 36 offer...

 

Offering:

 

 

1. You pay our client the sum of £8000 in full and final settlement and our client will dispose of their vehicle. Each party to bear their own legal costs.
   
2. You pay our client the sum of £18000 in full and final settlement, and our client will return the vehicle to your client. Again, each party to bear their own legal costs.
   

 

 

Now, this is the first time they have made any sort of offer to settle, having previously refused our own part 36 a few months ago, after we had their judgement set aside, and were given leave to file a defence.

Notably, the original judgement sought in excess of £20k with the mention that the proceeds from the sale "may" be deducted from the balance. Now the car was worth around £15k at the time it was taken, prob nearer £12k now (ore like £10k @ auction less fees) so, it looks like in absolute terms, they are asking for less (not that they are going to get a penny) Should we see this as a "softening" prior to them having to pay out more legal and court fees for the hearing scheduled for May?

 

 

Mike

[wannabedebtfreesoon]

Any offer has got to be a good sign eh?

 

So as it stands you have made a Part 36 offer and they have made one too. As far as I remember, if a party refuses a Part 36 offer and then goes on to achieve an amount less than that at judgment, they forfeit their right to claim their costs.

It doesn't look like you will be inclined to accept their 'generous' offer

Hmmm.... they get to break the law, mess you around, cause you & your family untold grief and in compensation you get to pay them!

 

If it were me I'd tell them where to stick their offer and let the judge decide...but that's just me!!!!

[funb0b1]

Not quite correct, they may lose the r threeight to claim costs from the time the offer was rejected, costs incurred before the rejection may be recovered.

 

 

Only if they win, if not then bye bye costs, these ****** thugs for hire live and die for their costs.

[funb0b1]

I don't remember referring to wannabe at any point, so no clue was sought.

 

I made a statement. Pure & simple.

 

No of the above applies unless they win. No win= No costs for the the bottom feeders

[funb0b1]

Again not strictly true. I recall that costs are at the discretion of the judge.

 

Simple statement, I agree it was.

 

Have I touched a nerve, why are you so bothered whether these scumbags get paid or not Hmmm...

 

Then to insult me.

 

BTW. I'd be happy to meet and then you could call me "simple" to my face and we'll see how that pans out for you

[funb0b1]

I don't like being insulted.

 

Give the post code I'll be there, make sure to bring all your friends you'll need em!

[GSMGuy]

Ok, WBDFS - point taken, and I assume, that as WE made a part 36 offer first, and THEY rejected it, then it goes in our favour if it comes to it - They have made a part 36 offer, simply because they are not 100% sure of their position, in a similar way to the fact that they have not sold the car - after more than 11 months, because, they are not 100% sure of their position. The DJ who overturned their judgement, and allowed us to file a defence and counterclaim, has had it alocated to himself for hearing - and I quote his words from last time "I'm for the Defendant in this matter"

 

Their part 367 has been summarily rejected on our behalf by Sol, and we have made a counter offer , I'll email you the details to see what you think, as we appear to have a couple of children having a bun fight in my thread - Guys/Gals, please take it elsewhere and keep this one on topic.

 

Mike

[funb0b1]

Apologies Mike, all the best.