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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Consumer Credit agreements part 3


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i would not think that the document posted could possibly be a re construction- it MUST be a photocopy or microfiche copy of an original document

 

 

also 9-2-2 would i doubt be the date as written by the company and i suggest must be in the applicants own hand- therefore this must be a copy of an original document IMO

 

however, the tick box suggests that the document was NOT completed by the customer and would therefore suggest that it might NOT have been completed "off trade premises"

 

so where precisely was the form completed, and by whom? a shopping centre?

 

where the details of how you could cancel it sent to you in the post?

 

there would appear to be no provision within either side of the document for the creditor to execute it- thus confirming that it is in fact an application form

 

The application form itself will constitute an agreement IF it can be shown that the debtors signature is contained within the same document as the prescribed terms

 

i cannot see any reference on one side of the document to the other- which may suggest that they are in fact two separate documents

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hi thanks for the advice and imput guys i seem to have managed to create 2 seperate posts some how but both are the same matter can i just post a link to my original post

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?281046-mbna-cc-fraud-thief-convicted-HF-still-want-balance-off-me-passed-to-DCA-help and sorry if ive caused any confusion

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the tick box suggests that the document was NOT completed by the customer and would therefore suggest that it might NOT have been completed "off trade premises"

 

so where precisely was the form completed, and by whom? a shopping centre?

 

where the details of how you could cancel it sent to you in the post?

the form was filled in by a woman i presume was an agent or rep of nbma she aproached me in a shopping centre, she filled in all the details i just signed it presuming i was applying for credit card

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Just looking through this thread for any commments which refer to an agreement for current account overdraft charges. the claim i have against me is for this type of debt . most of the info i can find is referring to credit card agreements.

 

i have asked for copies of me agreement and t&c's etc amongst other docs. D & G solicitors are claiming under part V exemption they do not have to provide an agreement for this type of debt nor do they have to supply a default notice ( BTW - which i did not get)

 

Would be grateful if any one has any comments on this??

 

this is my thread if anyone wants to have a browse.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?275863-Urgent-Help-Needed!-HSBC-Filed-Claim-at-Court-What-do-i-do

 

domino rally

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In that case it will be regulated by the '1983 Agreements Regulations and this affects where and whether there ought to be notices of Cancellation...i.e 'your rights to cancel' etc....

 

 

m2ae

HI m2ae

that was the only thing they produced this is where im at at this point in time if youd like to take a look and thanks for the info greatly apreciated http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?281046-mbna-cc-fraud-thief-convicted-amp-they-still-want-balance-off-me-passed-to-DCA-help

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Sorry to jump in here...can someone tell me the difference between and expempt agreement (s.16 CCA) and an Unregulated agreement?

 

More specifically, a £47,530 loan from a finance company, secured by 2nd charge taken out in June 2005.

 

what would this loan agreement come under? I know it's unregulated, but is it an 'exempt' agreement? They are 2 distinctly different things I am told...anyone?

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Hello sorry to jump in but have received a recon agreement from Cabot together with this letter which totally baffles me ?

What does the recon have to show. At the same time I had a SAR's Citi and had received the following items :

Statements up to Sept 2010. The last statement I have is dated October 2006 and I have them all prior to that. and now to the statements which are a nonsense...all the statement post 2007 are a load of nonsense.

Customer Service Notes copy which includes three entries - two mentioning account sold to Cabot and one mentioning my SARlink3.gif. There is a note on the bottom which says ALL CUSTOMER SERVICE NOTES PRIOR TO THIS PURGED FROM SYSTEM;

Copy of the Income and Expenditure which I gave them in July 2006 - they do not have the letter sending it out but I do as well as the letter refusing to accept me onto a reduced payment scheme in reply to my Income and Expenditure.

NO CREDIT AGREEMENT nor an application form was enclosed but they have said that they have given me a copy of the information held on the application (btw they got my name wrong !) this is just a computer print out.

I have sent a letter to Citi stating that they have not complied.

So really what do I need from them or Cabot ?

Thank you for reading

Rescanned further down !

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It's easy to use Adobe "rotate view" to rotate the document clockwise (twice) to get it right way up - no need to rescan on this account.

 

However you have still left the exact balance in the body which might idfentify you to Cabot.

 

Cabot's letter is pure bluff. They are saying they are "entitled" to enforce (and define enforce). They are right in they are ENTITLED to go to court - but what they DON'T say is that LEGALLY they CAN'T actually get a court to rule you MUST pay up just with a reconstituted copy - they MUST have the original. However beware of the Judge lottery as some judges don't actually understand the Carey judgement properly - and get misled by devious lawyers.

 

They must have taken a long time to put this work of fiction together because it's very well worded - intended to deceive you but without actually lying outright.

 

Personally I would now reply using P1's excellent CPUTR 2008 letter - which I believe removes the capability of them continuing to bluff. They either have an original, including your signature - and my reading of CPUTR 2008 is that they must give you such a copy on demand - or they haven't - and they must then say so and stop bluffing.

 

You might also want to bone up on the full Carey judgement (you can get it from Google easily) and quote the relevant bitys about enforcement and providing a full trail of all original copies each time the T&C's were changed - but this shouldn't be necessary if they understand what CPUTR 2008 does to them.

 

Anyway it's nice to see someone force them to spend so much time creating such a clever pack of lies!

 

Good luck!

 

BD

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Thank you very much for the comments -

 

Ok here's a proper copy right way round and without the balance !

 

Where can I find a copy of the letter CPUTR 2008 letter - bearing in mind what I got from Citi there seems to be a lack of proper documents around ?

 

Look at this post and others earlier on from PriorityOne on the same thread - might be just what you need to do now?

 

good luck!

 

BD

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?173201-why-you-shouldnt-use-section-77-78-CCA-1974-if-you-want-the-signed-agreement&p=3209722&viewfull=1#post3209722

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hete it us Gettingsorted..BD has given you the link to trevor33 and trevor33 received the full trancscript from me in relation to the interpretation of the OFT of CPUTR 2008 regs 5, 6 and 7

 

Susan Edwards, Head of Credit Investigations and Enforcement, Office of Fair Trading May 2008Misleading statements to debtors

Sections 77 and 78 refer to supplying a copy of the ‘executed’ agreement within 12 working days of receiving a written request from the debtor. Failure to do so makes the agreement unenforceable against the debtor until a copy is provided. In addition, if the default continues for a period of 1 month the creditor is in breach of the Act.

 

Execution involves signing the agreement. If no agreement has been executed, it is impossible to supply a true copy of the agreement. Should a creditor supply a copy agreement, even though the debtor has never signed any agreement with that creditor, no indication should be given that it is a true copy or a copy of an executed agreement. To do so may contravene Regulation 5 of the CPRs and be an unfair or improper business practice.

 

The consequence of the debtor not having signed a credit agreement with the creditor is that the agreement is unenforceable except where the court orders that enforcement may take place. Where the agreement was made before 6th April 2007 the court is not able to make such an order unless the agreement was signed by the debtor.

 

Therefore it is misleading to state, when complying with a section 77 or 78 request, that the debtor has signed or would have signed (or similar) the enclosed agreement where the debtor has not done so. From 26 May 2008 such a statement will be a breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair Tradingclip_image001.gif Regulations 2008 (CPRs). Regulation 5 of the CPRs states that a commercial practice is a misleading action if it contains false information in relation to the main characteristics of the product (amongst other matters) and is likely therefore to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise. The product in question is the credit agreement and the main characteristics include the ‘execution of the product’ (Regulation 5(5)(d) of the CPRs).

 

Telling a consumer that he signed such an agreement is also a misleading statement about his rights and the risks he might face as covered by Regulation 5(4)(k) of the CPRs.It is our view that it is likely that a consumer will take a transactional decision to make a payment under the credit agreement or to refrain from exercising his rights under the agreement as a result of being misled about whether he signed it.

 

Breach of Regulation 5 of the CPRs is a criminal offence under Regulation 9 and can also be enforced under Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002. Under section 218A of the Enterprise Act, where an application for an Enforcement Order is made the court may require the Respondent ‘to provide evidence of the accuracy of any factual claim’ (such as a claim that a debtor has signed a credit agreement).

 

In addition, it should be noted that threats to take action that cannot be taken is listed as one of the factors that will be considered in assessing aggressive practices in Regulation 7(2) of the CPRs.

 

 

rgds

m2ae

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Thank you

 

Do you think this will do or should I expand ?

 

Dear Sirs

I do not acknowledge any debt to your company

 

I refer to your letter dated xxxxx , where you enclose a reconstituted true copy of an agreement.

 

May I remind you of your obligations under the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (specifically regulations 5 and 6) and the Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection. I therefore request that you confirm whether you currently hold or have ever held a properly Executed Credit Agreement pertaining to the above account and if so please forward a copy to me by return.

 

I attach for your information a copy of the relevant Regs of CPUTR 2008 for your information

 

If you DO NOT have a signed, properly executed Consumer Credit Act Agreement pertaining to myself, then I require written confirmation by return (CPUTR 2008 reg 5 and 6).

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

Susan Edwards, Head of Credit Investigations and Enforcement, Office of Fair Trading May 2008

Misleading statements to debtors

Sections 77 and 78 refer to supplying a copy of the ‘executed’ agreement within 12 working days of receiving a written request from the debtor. Failure to do so makes the agreement unenforceable against the debtor until a copy is provided. In addition, if the default continues for a period of 1 month the creditor is in breach of the Act.

 

Execution involves signing the agreement. If no agreement has been executed, it is impossible to supply a true copy of the agreement. Should a creditor supply a copy agreement, even though the debtor has never signed any agreement with that creditor, no indication should be given that it is a true copy or a copy of an executed agreement. To do so may contravene Regulation 5 of the CPRs and be an unfair or improper business practice.

The consequence of the debtor not having signed a credit agreement with the creditor is that the agreement is unenforceable except where the court orders that enforcement may take place. Where the agreement was made before 6th April 2007 the court is not able to make such an order unless the agreement was signed by the debtor.

 

Therefore it is misleading to state, when complying with a section 77 or 78 request, that the debtor has signed or would have signed (or similar) the enclosed agreement where the debtor has not done so. From 26 May 2008 such a statement will be a breach of the Consumer Protection From Unfair TradingRegulations 2008 (CPRs). Regulation 5 of the CPRs states that a commercial practice is a misleading action if it contains false information in relation to the main characteristics of the product (amongst other matters) and is likely therefore to cause the average consumer to take a transactional decision he would not have taken otherwise. The product in question is the credit agreement and the main characteristics include the ‘execution of the product’ (Regulation 5(5)(d) of the CPRs).

 

Telling a consumer that he signed such an agreement is also a misleading statement about his rights and the risks he might face as covered by Regulation 5(4)(k) of the CPRs.It is our view that it is likely that a consumer will take a transactional decision to make a payment under the credit agreement or to refrain from exercising his rights under the agreement as a result of being misled about whether he signed it.

 

Breach of Regulation 5 of the CPRs is a criminal offence under Regulation 9 and can also be enforced under Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002. Under section 218A of the Enterprise Act, where an application for an Enforcement Order is made the court may require the Respondent ‘to provide evidence of the accuracy of any factual claim’ (such as a claim that a debtor has signed a credit agreement).

 

In addition, it should be noted that threats to take action that cannot be taken is listed as one of the factors that will be considered in assessing aggressive practices in Regulation 7(2) of the CPRs

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remove the "i do not acknowledge any debt" comment

 

Unless you have never had the use of the money, which i would suggest is not the case here

 

you have to remember if this goes to court, that letter will be disclosed, whereby the judge will see that letter as an attempt to debt avoid and it is likely the judge would take a harsh approach

 

thats my view of course, but i am in and out of course daily with clients and if i had a pound for each time a judge commented on that line i would be rich

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if you remain silent on this point, are you admitting the debt by saying nothing? no of course not

 

i am saying you look like a filthy debtor for the court,

 

My principal solicitor said to me while i was training, " never send anything that you wouldnt want to be placed before a judge"

 

I am in and out of court daily, i am providing you with an insight, as to the view of the courts which i am seeing, and many of my clients use the phrase like that from these forums and it is most unhelpful.

 

So, up to you, but if you listen to what im saying, you will ditch the sentence

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