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    • Indians, traditionally known as avid savers, are now stashing away less money and borrowing more.View the full article
    • the claimant in their WS can refer to whatever previous CC judgements they like, as we do in our WS's, but CC judgements do not set a legal precedence. however, they do often refer to judgements like Bevis, those cases do created a precedence as they were court of appeal rulings. as for if the defendant, prior to the raising of a claim, dobbed themselves in as the driver in writing during any appeal to the PPC, i don't think we've seen one case whereby the claimant referred to such in their WS.. ?? but they certainly typically include said appeal letters in their exhibits. i certainly dont think it's a good idea to 'remind' them of such at the defence stage, even if the defendant did admit such in a written appeal. i would further go as far to say, that could be even more damaging to the whole case than a judge admonishing a defendant for not appealing to the PPC in the 1st place. it sort of blows the defendant out the water before the judge reads anything else. dx  
    • Hi LFI, Your knowledge in this area is greater than I could possibly hope to have and as such I appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure that I agree the reason why a barrister would say that, only to get new customers, I'm sure he must have had professional experience in this area that qualifies him to make that point. 🙂 In your point 1 you mention: 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver. I understand the point you are making but I was referring to when the keeper is also the driver and admits it later and only in this circumstance, but I understand what you are saying. I take on board the issues you raise in point 2. Is it possible that a PPC (claimant) could refer back to the case above as proof that the motorist should have appealed, like they refer back to other cases? Thanks once again for the feedback.
    • Well barristers would say that in the hope that motorists would go to them for advice -obviously paid advice.  The problem with appealing is at least twofold. 1] there is a real danger that some part of the appeal will point out that the person appealing [the keeper ] is also the driver.  And in a lot of cases the last thing the keeper wants when they are also the driver is that the parking company knows that. It makes it so much easier for them as the majority  of Judges do not accept that the keeper and the driver are the same person for obvious reasons. Often they are not the same person especially when it is a family car where the husband, wife and children are all insured to drive the same car. On top of that  just about every person who has a valid insurance policy is able to drive another person's vehicle. So there are many possibilities and it should be up to the parking company to prove it to some extent.  Most parking company's do not accept appeals under virtually any circumstances. But insist that you carry on and appeal to their so called impartial jury who are often anything but impartial. By turning down that second appeal, many motorists pay up because they don't know enough about PoFA to argue with those decisions which brings us to the second problem. 2] the major parking companies are mostly unscrupulous, lying cheating scrotes. So when you appeal and your reasons look as if they would have merit in Court, they then go about  concocting a Witness Statement to debunk that challenge. We feel that by leaving what we think are the strongest arguments to our Member's Witness Statements, it leaves insufficient time to be thwarted with their lies etc. And when the motorists defence is good enough to win, it should win regardless of when it is first produced.   
    • S13 (2)The creditor may not exercise the right under paragraph 4 to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges specified in the notice to keeper if, within the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which that notice was given, the creditor is given— (a)a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement; (b)a copy of the hire agreement; and (c)a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement. As  Arval has complied with the above they cannot be pursued by EC----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- S14 [1]   the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer. (2)The conditions are that— (a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper; (b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed;  As ECP did not send copies of the documents to your company and they have given 28 days instead of 21 days they have failed to comply with  the Act so you and your Company are absolved from paying. That is not to say that they won't continue asking to be paid as they do not have the faintest idea how PoFA works. 
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Barclaycard debt and mercer Default Notice


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Received DN short time ago from DCA 'acting as agent for OC' (credit card), doesn't appear that account has been sold at any time.

Not sure whether or not a DCA is allowed to issue DN if they dont actually own the debt - can anybody help please?

DCA has messed up the dates / durations for putting right and further action that may be taken are ;

(a) passing on to another DCA for issue of formal demand for payment of whole balance, and

(b) registering the account details with a CRA.

Date for remedy has passed but still haven't received anything like a termination notice - all seems a bit vague, anyone else come across this?

Comments /advice would be appreciated.

 

SH:???:

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Hi SH

 

Hi alfwithhair

 

thanks for gettin back to me so soon

 

Having some probs with scanning at the minute but will try again later today.

OC = Barclaycard & DCA = Mercers

 

Cheers

 

SH:oops:

 

 

I've had the same thing from Mercers; DN with no OC name and address on it.

 

They telephone every day and I ignore them.

 

Then got a letter from resolvecall 'acting on behalf of Mercers' with usual threats. A resolvecall chap appeared, then disappeared, from my doorstep a few days ago.

 

I have no proper CCA or intelligent response from BCard and am continuing to ignore their thugs.

 

Best wishes

 

vic

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It might be worth getting a copy of your credit report - there should only be one default on there for the account & it should be from the OC & within 6 months of the actual default ...

 

Maybe the DCA has had a look at you credit report, noticed no entry, added one & sent this dodgy piece of paper to try to justify it ...

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just as i thought.

 

OH hasnt received anything that resembles a termination notice, do they need to issue this or does the agreement terminate by default if not remedied within time period (regardless of whether DN was correct or not)?

 

If DN is incorrect, is it right that once agreement terminated, only the arrears stated on DN become payable and if so, is it better to acknowledge that the agreement has been terminated or just keep it up sleeve for later?

 

Having read another thread on here, it would appear that DN may contain other misleading and ambiguous statements that would also make it non-compliant.

 

SH :???:

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There is a bit of a problem regarding DNs at the moment, a couple of judges have ruled that service is made as soon as the DN is posted and are not allowing for postage. AFAIK there are appeals being made so we'll have to see how things pan out, it seems to be a case of certain legal wallahs deciding to move the goal-posts in favour of the finance industry. :(

 

Attached pdf are the regulations regarding DNs, have a look through to see if it complies.Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983.pdf

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  • 2 months later...

After receiving DN (post #10) from Mercers, OH sent cca request to Barclaycard, 12 + 2 days passed with no sign of a response and the 'Account In Dispute' letter was sent. Shortly after, OH received a short letter acknowledging request and advising that it was being dealt with and a response would follow asap. That was back in Nov 2010.

 

Still no sign of an agreement yet, so imagine surprise OH got when a 'Formal Demand For Payment' dropped through the letter box from Barkingmad recently!

 

Following advice from cerbusalert in post #14, the earlier DN was checked and a number of errors & omissions found that I believe would make it ineffective, not least of which is the absence of any agreement so far, time for remedy, etc.

 

If I'm correct with this, it now seems that the account has been unlawfully terminated by Barkingmad and I should reply to them accepting this. Would this be the best time to request a detailed breakdown of the arrears they say is due since this is more than likely to include charges and interest that previously they had confirmed (in writing) would be waived when OH contacted them to try and reach agreement on reduced payments?

 

I'd appreciate some feedback / reassurance as to whether I'm going in the right direction with this one.

 

Cheers

 

SH

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Hi Sare

 

Faulty DNs and any-old-crap CCAs are now standard fare. They may inhibit court action being taken but they are not an absolute defence.

 

Their refusal to accept an affordable payment and clarification of the exact amount allegedly due (with documentation) is the route I'm following.

 

love

 

vic

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Hi vic,

 

OH wrote to Barkingmad to point out that not only was DN defective/ineffective, the cca request was still outstanding and hadn't been satisfied. The letter concluded that by demanding payment of alleged balance in full they had terminated / unlawfully recinded any alleged agreement and that they would only be entitled to claim arrears, subject to providing a properly executed agreement.

 

Within a few days OH gets a letter from 'in-house' DCA' advising that OC has 'agreed to accept a settlement offer' if OH calls within 5 days.

 

Looks like a poor attempt to get OH to speak with them (no chance!), should we just ignore or write back enclosing copy of last letter to Barkingmad....... any thoughts?

 

Cheers

 

SH

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Hi Sare

 

Personally I would ignore; talking to Mercers is dangerous because they tell porkies to get you to admit things.

 

If they're offering a genuine settlement so early, it's because they know the paperwork is deficient.

 

If the offer is 'genuine' then Tingy's a Dutchman, which he ain't.

 

x

 

v

Edited by victoria_siempre
typo
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Hi vic,

 

I don't really think its a genuine offer, not even a hint of any figures, just a lame attempt to get OH to call them.

 

Think we'll just wait and see what sort of reply we get from Barkingmad........ assuming they bother of course!

 

cheers

 

SH

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Hi vic,

 

After my last pots (#19), OH received another letter from in-houes DCA demanding that OH should contact and make arrangemnts to pay full amount. Sent them copy of last letter to Barkingmad and told them to return account to their client, would not correspond further with them.

 

Lo and behold, response to CCA request drops through the door from Barkingmad (see attached scan0059.pdf ).

 

Spotted a few peculiarities with this;

- covering letter looks like a poor cut & paste effort since none of OH previous requests made any reference to CPR

- letter states 'please find enclosed a copy of your original executed agreement and a copy of the latest terms & conditions.....' - despite actually providing a reconstructed/reconstituted copy which is clearly not the original since it has our current address and not the address where we actually lived at time account was opened (some 10 yrs ago), and states most recent %APR. Also makes ref to agreements entered into after 26/11/10!

- t&c's provided are not the current ones, appear to be a variation of earlier / original t&c's since %APR is only a few % lower than last statement and refers to default charges of £15.

- pg3 of attachment shows cover sheet which they attached to trifold type t&c's and had OH name & address type in large letters on top lh corner (which I've deleted).

 

The cca response fails to confirm whether they actually hold, or have ever held an original properly executed agreement - I think i have read that they must do so wnen providing reconstructed versions (CPUTR?), or am I mistaken. Now surely if they have a properly executed original (or copy) it would have been easier to send a copy of that?

 

Doesn't look like a properly executed or enforceable agreement to me however I would appreciate a second (or third, or fourth....) opinion.

 

Cheers

 

SH

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Hi SH

 

The CCA is the usual recon crap but satisfies a sec 78 request for now (Carey). Save it safe and go through it looking for inconsistencies in the T&Cs with other historical stuff or charges etc to your account; save all this.

 

What you do next is a moot point; I personally do not challenge CCA on the basis of a sec 78 response on its own or at this point; I favour making an affordable offer which they will decline; I favour raising a formal complaint about refusal to accept offer and harassment by their agents, and exhausting their complaints procedure. This will keep you busy for the next 8 weeks.

 

But, as always, see what colleagues think.

 

x

 

v

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Hi vic,

 

Thanks for the quick reply, I'll have a closer look through and see what other inconsistencies & errors I can find.

 

Our objective with this one was to try and determine enforcibility of cca so OH can make an affordable and sustainable offer of payment, without the worry that OC could enforce.

 

Clearly, this is a very poor reconstruction and wouldn't they need original to try and enforce in court due to age, was it not ruled somewher (Carey?) that when providing a reconstructed cca, the OC had to confirm whether it had the original in its possession? I may have got this confused since been reading quite a bit recently. Any ideas on how best to get them to confirm whether an original exists or not? Isn't it better to write back and say that we dont accept s.78 request has been properly satisfied or not?

 

OC terminated by issuing formal demand for payment on back of defective DN, so OH wrote back accepting unlawful rescission. I believe this would entitle OC to receive payment of arrears at date of termination (or is it date of default notice?), does this entitlement still apply if no properly executed / enforceable agreement exists?

 

Inevitably, Barkingmad or their tame DCA's will write back, probably ignoring the fact that OH has already accepted unlawful rescission, so want to be prepared with good response.

 

Grateful as ever for your support and assistance.

 

Cheers

 

SH

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