halifax credit card..ohh the joys

[Wato]

Hi all.

 

Right then I’ve been on a payment plan with Halifax for 12 months paying £50 a month, I owe £825 left to pay on the card, before this plan I got into a mess and £372 of charges were placed on the account (18 late fees,13 over limit fees).

 

I sent a letter off in July 2009 asking if they would remove the charges and as a "gesture of goodwill" (ha) they removed £24 worth. I’ve left it till now and over the last few month I’ve started the process for the full lot, I sent SAR request and I’ve got my statements, I then sent a letter saying that I would like a refund or I would try to go through the small claims court.

 

I have just had a phone call with someone from Halifax saying that basically can we come to some sort of compromise, after spending ages on the phone basically the most they were willing to offer was another £96 (8 charges).I basically said this was unacceptable and I would not accept anything less than 300 and he wouldn’t budge.

 

In what seemed like hours on the phone, I have some burning questions that hopefully you lot can help me with.

 

• He said that cause I’d been on a repayment plan and the interest had been frozen, they could counter sue for all the lost interest they could of put on the account....surely this can’t be right as they agreed to the payment plan and I did not miss one payment
  

 

• He claimed the interest they could of put on the account would off been more than the fees so basically it won’t stand a chance in court, again is this a valid point or just scare tactics?
  

 

• He went on about just how expensive the courts could be and how much it would cost me if I lost and that he was trying to do me a favour by accepting his offer, exactly how much would it cost to go to small claims court?
  

Any advice would be greatly appreciated and if you need any more info just let me know

 

cheers Wato

[middenmess]

He's talking rollocks and trying to intimidate you.

 

Work out the compound interest at the rate they currently charge you for cash on each of the unlawful charges plus 8%.

 

Send the [very large:grin:] total to them and after a bit more negotiating they should agree to pay you around 75% plus of what you are requesting.

 

Use this calculator with 12 rests.

 

Compound interest calculator!!!

[Wato]

There are 18 late fees £12 a time and 13 overlimit fees again at £12 a time so 31 in total = £372 but as 2 have been refunded the total stands in at £348

 

im not sure what u mean when you say "Work out the compound interest at the rate they currently charge you for cash on each of the unlawful charges plus 8%"

 

is it the rate % the put on cash transactions,is that what u mean?

 

sorry for been a dumb ass

 

cheers Wato

[middenmess]

is it the rate % the put on cash transactions,is that what u mean?

 

Yep.

 

Example--£12 charge levied on 1 Jan 2007 with say 25% [cash rate guessing] would have accrued £17.48 in interest to 1 August 2010 so that charge is now going to cost them £29.48 + 8%.

 

Do that for each of their charges and it will add up nicely.

 

Some of my thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/217048-how-much-youre-aving.html

 

might be helpful

[Wato]

Well I have to recieved this response from halifax,makes great reading,its funny during the conversation he kept on asking me how much I think a charge should be and wanted me to put a figure on it,but everytime i asked him how can it be £12 he said he was not able to say.

 

 

to middenmess:firstly thanks for your help your phone conversation sound rather similar to mine,think i know how to work out the charges now,iv just got to make sure I use the correct rate.

 

to anyone anymore advice on what i should do next

 

cheers Wato

[Wato]

forgot to mention should I only work out the compound interest up to the date I started the payment plan as all interest weas frozen then

 

cheers Wato

[letsdothis]

I had a similar ordeal with Halifax for my Aqua Card.

 

You can quite rightly claim back the charges plus interest.

 

By my reckoning you have £348 worth of charges and you can legally add 8% stat interest alone onto that figure.

 

It all depends if you are prepared to take it all the way. They are hoping that by saying that you would be liable for their charges, that you will give up.

 

You can do one of two things,

 

1) Take it all the way to county court

2) Wait until they take you to court and then counterclaim against them, thus giving you a lower amount owed

 

Just beacause they froze any interest etc does not make it any fairer for them to claim that they will not refund the charges.

 

If you go the county court claim way, I would hazard a bet that they would cave in. They would have to prove that their charges actually cost £12 to win. You know as well as I do that once it is uncovered in court that the charges don't cost £12 then it rubber stamps the way for thousands of others to reclaim.

 

Have a read of my thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/halifax-bank-bank-scotland/259192-aquacard-cave.html

[middenmess]

IMO

I'd work out what you want from them in the form of a detailed spreadsheet or similar detailing the date of the charge,the CI interest on each charge up until say 1st September plus 8% on the total.

 

Attach this to your next letter formally requesting your refund and ending by saying that if not paid to you by the end of say 21 days [being generous here:D] they must consider this to be a 'letter before action] and that you will proceed to court without further notice.

 

They will get back to you so be prepared to negotiate if you want an early settlement to all this.

 

Offering £80 wasn't even an interesting opening gambit!

 

If they let it go to Court it will be a first!

 

'All charges correctly applied--agreed with OFT'---Rollocks!

 

Others might advise differently.

[letsdothis]

 

'All charges correctly applied--agreed with OFT'---Rollocks!

 

This is what the OFT said, and somehow Halifax have interpreted it to suit themselves and not the customer.

 

“We are not suggesting that default fees should be set at £12, and a court will certainly not consider that a default fee is fair just because it is below the threshold”. “We consider that a contract term is likely to be unfair if it requires consumers to pay more as a result of a default than the court would order them to pay if they were sued for breach of contract. This means that a default charge should not exceed a reasonable pre-estimate of the administrative costs that the consumer ought to have realised would be likely to be incurred by his or her card issuer in dealing with defaults”.

[Wato]

thanks for all this advice,it giving me the confidence to push on with this,as it just so happens Iv started to set up a spreadsheet for these charges.

 

I've got date of charge,charge amount,charge + CI and charge + CI + 8%, the current rate on charges is 22.95%,think im doing it right

 

thanks again Wato

[middenmess]

Is 22.95% the rate they charge you for cash?

 

I ask as it seems a bit low as they normally hike up the rates once they sense that you are having financial problems.

 

Mine was upped to around 28% I think but others report rates well into the 30's!

 

If you want your figures looked at just post a sample one here with the dates etc. and we'll swarm all over it!!

[letsdothis]

thanks for all this advice,it giving me the confidence to push on with this,as it just so happens Iv started to set up a spreadsheet for these charges.

 

I've got date of charge,charge amount,charge + CI and charge + CI + 8%, the current rate on charges is 22.95%,think im doing it right

 

thanks again Wato

 

Go get 'em.

 

I never had the confidence against Aqua Card to go for the CI - I have since done so though with Cap One.

 

Those charges are yours to reclaim, and once you get them back you would have wiped at least 50% of your debt off.

 

Just to add,

 

He went on about just how expensive the courts could be and how much it would cost me if I lost and that he was trying to do me a favour by accepting his offer, exactly how much would it cost to go to small claims court?

 

To the best of my knowledge costs are fixed in small claims. ie - You pay for the case to be heard which would be x amount. They are trying to scare you into not going any further with this.

[Wato]

I got the 22.95% of my last statement as this is what it says is the interest rate for cash advances,related interest and charges

 

cheers Wato

[middenmess]

I got the 22.95% of my last statement as this is what it says is the interest rate for cash advances,related interest and charges

 

cheers Wato

 

 

 

They obviously don't despise you as much as they do the rest of us:D

[Wato]

heres a little sample of the spreadsheet,I have worked out the interest upto the date of the start of the credit agreement which was 8/4/09

 

[middenmess]

Looks good--nice to be able to turn £36 into £60:D

 

The figures will show that you are serious and will give them something to think about.

 

I presume the 08/04/09 was the date that they froze the interest?

[letsdothis]

I make your charges as: (have given you an example of the CI calculator as well)

 

 

Compound interest calculator

 

[Wato]

I have done it slightly differnet to you,as I have only worked out the interest up to the date I entered a payment plan (8/4/09),as the interest had been frozen and nothing more added to the account I think it would show that I am not taking the mick and are only goin after what im should be entitled to,is this the wrong thing to do

 

cheers Wato

[letsdothis]

I have done it slightly differnet to you,as I have only worked out the interest up to the date I entered a payment plan (8/4/09),as the interest had been frozen and nothing more added to the account I think it would show that I am not taking the mick and are only goin after what im should be entitled to,is this the wrong thing to do

 

cheers Wato

 

TBH I would claim the stat interest (8%) up until today, in a county court, you would be allowed to anyway.

 

If they take you to court, they would also charge you up to the day it was in court as well I bet.

 

They chose to enter the agreement, they had the choice to say no. As for the CI then I would perhaps agree with you on that one. But it has to be your call. I don't think they will relent until you issue the summons anyway.

 

What letters have you sent?

 

I sent a first letter asking for the charges back and they then came back with the stupid amount that they offered.

 

I never actually sent Halifax a LBA as I got them to relent on the phone.

 

If you haven't sent the LBA then you may as well try that, it may make them think you are serious about it. If you send the LBA add the figures you are proposing to that and include them.

[stupiditto]

Go get em, they are all a bunch of scare mongers. Banker = old saying £ankers

[middenmess]

Wato

 

 

None of us seem to have asked if you had PPI on this card-did you?

[Wato]

well the guy i spoke to didnt want to seem to budge from £80 and there was no way I was going to accept that,I sent a letter asking saying I felt the charges were unfair and and that I would like a refund or I would be willing to go to court but by no mean was it a proper lba,I then got the phonecall and I guess thats just spurred me on to go for the full amount now.

 

I make the total amount of charges including CI and the 8% at £494.44,as they have already refunded 2 charges im guessing they will say they were from the 2 earliest ones so by that token it would be down to £452.92

 

think i will send a proper lba stating that I want the full amount back now,and that I found there offer insulting.

 

thanks Wato

[Wato]

regarding the PPI situation,On looking through my statements I did have repayment cover at the start but canceled it so I paid 9 months worth of it totaling £74.62

 

cheers Wato

[letsdothis]

Just send a LBA and then see what happens. No fancy stuff needed.

 

Adjust to suit.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account number: xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

I refer to default charges applied to my account amounting to £amount, which I have requested you pay back.

I wrote to you on xx/xx/2010 making the original request for a payment in settlement of my claim. As I have not received a satisfactory response, I am writing to inform you I intend to claim the full amount claimed together with interest up to the date of judgment and court fees in the proceedings through the county court.

This is based on the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, as I believe these default charges are unfair and not proportionate to your costs, and therefore the court will rule in my favour. As I am sure you are aware, the Office of Fair Trading also stated in its April 2006 statement into credit card charges that it considers charges are at a higher level than is legally fair.

The charges and interest I have claimed above total £amount excluding contractual interest. However, if you are prepared to pay to me £amount within 14 days of the date of this letter (and, for such purpose, time shall be of the essence), I am prepared to accept this lower figure in full and final settlement of my claim and interest.

 

I look forward to a full response to this letter within 14 days, otherwise I will commence court proceedings to reclaim my money.

Yours faithfully,

[letsdothis]

regarding the PPI situation,On looking through my statements I did have repayment cover at the start but canceled it so I paid 9 months worth of it totaling £74.62

 

cheers Wato

 

I would do a seperate claim for that then as well. Plus the 8% stat interest. Again adjust to suit.

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

Ref: Credit Agreement & Payment Protection Insurance: xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

 

I purchased the above Payment Protection Insurance policy from you but now believe that I was mis-sold this policy for the following reasons:

 

Due to the fact that I applied for the credit card over the internet, I was not given the correct information when the policy was sold to me, as:

 

 

• Having recently looked at the paperwork for my credit card I now realise that I had been paying for insurance that I did not know I had taken out so this could not have been explained to me. I am fairly positive that if I had in fact applied for it, it would have been purely because the tick box for yes would have been pre selected. Therefore meaning that I would have had to opt out of the insurance rather than to opt in.
  
• I was not told that the policy was optional.
  
• I was not given full information on what the policy would and would not cover before signing up to for the card.
  

 

Unless you can satisfactorily justify to me that the policy was fair and reasonable I am requesting a full refund of all the premiums that I have paid on this account, these total £amount, that I have paid from date until date.

 

As I believe I have been deprived of this money I also request a full refund of the premiums, subsequent interest that I would have paid on these premiums and the 8% statutory interest that a court would award.

 

I look forward to a full and prompt response to this letter and for the matter to be concluded within eight weeks or I shall be contacting the Financial Ombudsman to investigate my complaint.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Enclose spreadsheet of payments and interest with it.