ebay motors - I refused to purchase

[carlp1962]

Hi - love the site.

 

I recently bid on a 1966 car (advertised as ideal for restoration). The car was not in mint condition and was advertised as being owned for three years and had been used as a reference for another rebuild. I bid over two days and won at a cost of £560.

 

On going to pay and to see if I could tow the car, I was pretty disgusted at the condition. It was far worse than the pictures displayed. The lower part of the car (sills, floor, suspension joints) were completely rotted away. As I touched parts of the body work piles of rust built up on the floor. The spare parts were not of serviceable condition. The vehicle was in much more of a worse condition than I imagined from the ebay ad. It appeared that at sometime the complete rear end had been stitched on from another car. I had to think hard about refusing to pay for the car. I did have three other people with me who all agreed. All the alarm bells in my head started to ring.

 

Now I am being threatened with court action if I don't pay and collect the vehicle. He even proudly informed me that he discussed this with his solicitor over dinner. His argument is that we had a contract and that the car was advertised for restoration (however, no mention was made of the severity of decay of the car, when I phoned asking if it was towable, he replied probably not as the tyres were dodgy.) I went with the intention to purchase the car I had the cash in my pocket and a tow rope in the car, I had also arranged for a recovery vehicle for later in the week if I couldn't tow it back. I have now also been accused of breaking a boot hinge during my inspection, however the car was in such a bad state I can't see how this was unavoidable or if it was already broken.

 

 

I did have the intention to purchase, but the condition was so bad. I feel that his ad should have reflected more accurately the condition of the vehicle. I could have purchased the vehicle to restore but I would have always have the niggling thought that I was conned.

 

Help please, where do I stand?

[BankFodder]

If you are satisfied that it doesn't match the descriptin that you are under no obligation to pay. In fact if you think that he has mislead you then you would be entitled to sue him to make good the value of the car which he has sold you.

 

I suggest that you write to him and explain exactly the discrepancies between the car and the description. Make it very detailed so that the position is clear in case he goes to court.

 

Separately you should calculate how much value is missing from the car - meaning that how much more would it have been worth had it been as described, or alternatively how much extra money would it have cost you to have brought it up to match its descrption. Be very reasonable and moderate about this.

 

If he continues to threaten then tell him that you are prepared to let it go and walk away from the contract even though he has mis-desribed the item. Tell him that if he insists on bring a legal action that you will counterclaim to the missing value of the car as it is he who is in breach, not you.

 

Be very sure that he really has misdescribed the car and it isn't simply a case that you realised that you had taken on rather more than you had expected.

[rebel11]

Hi Carlp

 

Minor point, send all correspondence recorded, I suppose as he thinks he's supposedly spoken to a solicitor, you could CC it to any solicitors you might know, if you feel comfortable doing that. Keep a diary-dates/times.

 

Infact, this could be a 'con' to extract money from people, could anybody reasonably expect to restore that car? The price looks attractive, but it sounds like a 'shell' car. Maybe do a bit more digging.

[cerberusalert]

IIRC you are covered under the 'Distance Selling Regulations' i.e the cooling off period Statutory Instrument 2000 No. 2334

[carlp1962]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I am an honest person, so feel bad by not following through with the 'auction'. I knew that the car would be rough and it was going to be a restoration project for me to carry out. The problem is how do you determine a level of restoration? In my opinion, the car would require total restoration as the rot was so extensive. I was also concerned as he is a private lister, but on arrival said that he also ha a Volvo for sale and the previous week had sold a Mini which was in worse condition.

 

Is acceptable to just say 'for restoration', leaving out the severity of the car's condition?

 

thanks again carl

[cerberusalert]

Have you taken a screen shot of his auction page as a reference to his description of the goods?

[carlp1962]

yes, this is it.

 

 

First things first: This Sprite will only include the hartop if the bidding goes over £575.

If it doesn't, the hardtop will be sold separately.

 

Here is your chance to get yourself a good restoration project Sprite with no reserve! I have had this car for 3 years, originally buying it as a reference to help me put my other one back together (long story, no time for it here). I had intentions to restore this vehicle, but 3 years down the road and I haven't even started it. Rather than let it continue to sit there, I have decided to auction it and let someone else have at it. I have left the hardtop in place as it helps to protect the interior, although as stated above this will only go with the vehicle if the bidding goes over £575.

All in all it's not too bad, I've seen far worse get restored. As you can see in the last pic there's a load of bits that come with the car. The engine ran when I got the car, although it was pretty rough as it had old fuel in it. I moved it into place on the drive and shut it off. The buyer will need a trailer to move it, as there is obviously no MOT on the vehicle.

 

Thats pretty much it, any questions just ask. If you want any pics of specific bits of the car just ask.

 

 

Carl

[cerberusalert]

Take an actual screenshot of the site in case he edits it. What you see on your screen is the picture that'll be saved so you'll have to scroll to the relevant parts then press the Ctrl & Prnt Scrn buttons on your keyboard down together, open 'Paint' from your start menu & then click 'Edit' then click 'Paste' an image of the website will then appear. Click 'File' then 'Save As' and then save as a jpeg file.

 

You will then have a permanent record of the advert.

[carlp1962]

will do it now, thanks

Edited July 28, 2010 by carlp1962
added more info

[carlp1962]

This is the message he sent me.

 

Dear carlp1962,

This matter is far from "resolu". I have just had dinner with my lawyer, during which we discussed this situation. As it stands these are the facts:

The vehicle was described as a "restoration project" which it most definately is. If it only needed some t-cut, or a new interior, it would have been listed as such, and sold for much more.

The auction ran for 10 days, timed to go over 2 weekends so that any potential buyers could come and view the car.

It was made clear in the listing that if any potential buyers had any questions, they could ask them. You never asked any questions.

It was made clear in the listing that any potential buyers could request further pictures of any specific parts of the vehicle. You did not request any.

It was made clear in the listing that the buyer should bring a trailer as the vehicle had no MOT and could not be driven on the road. You did not bring a trailer.

The vehicle is 44 years old, and a 5 minute check through the VOSA site would show that it has not been on the road for several years.

During your visit I willingly used my own fuel, and dirtied my hands changing the battery to allow you to see the engine running. I had no obligation to do this, but did so as it was the decent thing. During your visit I was also aware that your inspection resulted in a broken hinge joint on the hardtop.

Given the English climate, and the fact that the listing stated that it had been on my drive for 3 years, I'm not entirely sure why you expected the vehicle to be in a much better condition than it is.

Under Ebay policy, when you win an auction you enter a legally binding contract to buy the item. You are not bidding to come and "kick tyres".

As I am confident that the description of the vehicle is accurate, I therefore consider you to be in breach of contract.

The advice I have been given is that at the moment your cheapest option is to organise a trailer, pick up the vehicle that you won, and pay for it. I await your reply.

[cerberusalert]

All in all it's not too bad

I think this statement says it all, if he thinks a pile of rust on wheels isn't 'too bad' I wonder what he would consider was?

[Googley2]

Just report it to Ebay, they have a telephone helpline and say "Item was significantly not as described", having been an Ebayer for years I also think (but not sure) it is illegal to list an item on Ebay and then provide the top if the bidding goes high enough. You either sell it as a complete part or as two separate, it cannot be a condition of the sale that the bid must reach a certain amount as then he should have put a reserve price on it (which would have cost him a couple of pound to do). Sounds like a total [problem]. Just report it he will get his fees refunded by ebay and you do not have to continue with it. You can also cancel under the distance selling regulations. Dont give in to him.

[carlp1962]

Thanks for the advice.

 

This has put me from using ebay completely.

 

I restore classic cars as an hobby so I know what to look out for. I would have bought it if the description was more honest. However, i thought you cheeky git!

Not everybody has the same morals.

[carlp1962]

Thanks for the advice Googleymugley.

Have contacted ebay and surprisingly they were very helpful. They have recorded my concerns and agree that I had a case not to follow through with the 'sale'. Have now sent him a message informing him of the two options recommended by ebay:

1. cancel the transaction, or

2. enter a case in resolution.

 

I reiterated my reasons and kept away from replying to his threats of legal action. I also stated that I would not communicate any further unless it is through ebay's resolution centre.

 

Thanks again, now lets see what happens next.

[borisbeaver]

I watch the Wheeler Dealer programme on Discovery channel and when Mike Brewer buys a vehicle for restoration from an auction site, he has stated, multiple times, that if you win an auction and the vehicle is not as described, you can simply walk away.

[Googley2]

Glad to see you contacted Ebay, have used the service before and although it can be slow they have always come down in my favour. Just a thought for the future NEVER NEVER pay cash for anything you purchase from Ebay always try to use Paypal. They have their own systems in place to get the money back off the Seller.

 

It gives you an protection with Ebay in case things go wrong after purchase but it also give you protection with Paypal for purchases upto £500. Ebay refund quicker than paypal. I only give cash if its local, not electrical and I can see it and check it before paying. (Example once purchased crystal for £150, when seller brought it to me there was a tiny chip on the bottom so we agreed to do a deal for £100. If I had found the chip later and the Seller had gone nobody would have given me any kind of refund. Was unknown damage to the Seller.

[silverbreak]

You can also cancel under the distance selling regulations. Dont give in to him.

I thought Auctions were excluded unless from a registered business

[king123]

You've done the right thing in involving eBay and I highly doubt he'll sue. If he does you have a good case anyway. The only reason he's getting hot under the collar is that he knows that pile of junk isn't worth anything and now he has to try and shift it again!