Full & Final Settlement offer advice on how to clear asap

[Bigdebtor]

You should always say as little as possible to avoid giving too much ammo to the other side. How about just saying :

 

I am aware of the procedures in defending a claim in the county court and understand that a Charging Order may only be granted after judgement if we were to default on the terms of the judgement. Our Financial situation means that I should be able to prove to a Judge that what we are offering is reasonable and that we are not favouring one creditor over another. By refusing to accept our offer you are being unreasonable and trying to force us to pay proportionately more to you than to our other Creditors.

 

Given that a large percentage of this balance is made up of fees and associated interest, if you insist on taking us to Court, I would be prepared to reclaim such amounts through the Court.

 

or if you want to add more continue with the rest:

 

Not only would this be lengthy, but the offer of assistance from my Father to clear this debt would be withdrawn as it was made on the clear understanding that it would satisfy this debt in full and that we would be released from any further liability, without the need for Court action.

 

Furthermore, there will be no further option to pay sizeable installments after 30th July as you intimated in your letter, as once I return to work following my maternity leave, my childcare costs will increase dramatically due to having to pay for 2 children under school age in Fulltime Nursery, I will be lucky to meet my basic household expenditure, let alone a non priority debt such as yours. Therfore I would say it is in both our interest to find a mutually acceptable agreement out of Court"

 

I'm not sure the second part adds anything to the strength of your case - but up to you oif you want to add it as well.

 

Good luck!

 

BD

[horsemad1]

Thanks BD again!!! The 2nd part was more about letting them know that should they not accept my f&f now, then there would be no lump sum as such and that even if they did suceed witha county court judgement, the money I would have available to pay them by installment would be miniscule and so not worth it for them....

[horsemad1]

OH has said he's going to phone the National Debtline tonight when he gets in regarding the charges reclaiming and also what to do about reducing payments to OC's who have not agreed to reduced payments..... I know the National debtline will prob give him differing advice from what I've recived on here.....

 

He's worrying about further impact of his credit report for non payment on the 3 that are still with OC's, but I CCA'd them 3 weeks ago, so they are in fact in default of my CCA request and shouldn't report any adverse data to the CRA's anyway should they?

[Bigdebtor]

Remember the objective of both CCCS and National Debtline etc. is to get you to pay what you can afford - and get the debts repaid - NOT to help you reduce what you need to pay through reclaiming charges and reducing/writing off any of your debts through (totally justifiably) exploiting legal loop holes. He is a classic example of why the banks get away with their current tactics. He needs to read these threads and discover just what a load of sharks they all are.

 

Your CRA credit ratings will probably be shot already and will remain so for 6 years after you finally settle up - even if you were to repay everything in full right now - so what's the point in spending more money you can ill afford? .

 

Why let these sods win? How many thousands have you paid them in interest and charges over the years?

 

Do (and pay) as little as possible until after the Glasgow Sheriff Court case next month.

 

BD

[dx100uk]

Your CRA credit ratings will probably be shot already and will remain so for 6 years after you finally settle up - even if you were to repay everything in full right now - so what's the point in spending more money you can ill afford? .

 

yep

def

your cra file will only show partial settlement anyhow, unless you make it a condition of your F&F that ALL data is removed.

some do some don't.

 

get your OH to read some threads here on F&F

 

he'll soon get the idea!!

 

dx

[horsemad1]

Thanks again BD - I know i must be a pain in the bum. What is the Glasgow Sheriff Court Case - is there something on here about it???

[Bigdebtor]

Yes - see Michael Browne's thread on "Sheriff puts Bank of Scotland to proof on charges" - a thrilling read!

 

Bd

[horsemad1]

Ok finally persuaded OH that the National Debtline, although offers good advice will not tell you about the 'legal loopholes' which you can explore to your advantage. He is prepared to go down reclaiming routes, but would prefer a very low short settlement if at all possible, so to those taht we already offered very low full & finals too and that are in default of a CCA request so unenforceable anyway, he wants to play hardball (now he's getting it) and send a follow up letter to them in the interim. Would this be sufficient:

 

"I note that you have refused my Full & Final settlement offer in settlement of this alleged debt and would like to draw your attention to the following. Both you (DCA) and OC are in default of my request for a true signed copy of the CCA pursuant to s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and whilst the default continues you (DCA) or OC are not entitled to enforce any part of this alleged agreement and therefore your threats of legal action are futile.

 

I believe my offer is reasonable based on the unlawful charges and associated interest that has been added while the account has been in dispute and my current circumstances. This offer was made on the clear understanding that once accepted it cleared me from any further liability, that neither you, OC or any other 3rd party would pursue me for the balnce which would be written off and my credit files updated accordingly as adverse data should legally never have been entered due to the disputed status of this debt.

Furthermore, my relative will only release these funds providing the above conditions are met and as it is their money there is no further room for negotiation. My offer of £xxxxx still stands, however be advised that after 30th July 2010 it will be withdrawn.

 

Comments would be appreciated.....

[Bigdebtor]

BIG improvement! good old OH!

[horsemad1]

I know - thank goodness, because he was quite prepared to put the house up on the market and pay them all off in full....

 

Do you think my letter is sufficient? I have searched the internet for a follow up letter to a F&F refusal & can't find anything??

[dx100uk]

i would be inclined to make it a condition that ALL adverse data be removed from CRA files.

 

dx

[The Mould]

Ok finally persuaded OH that the National Debtline, although offers good advice will not tell you about the 'legal loopholes' which you can explore to your advantage. He is prepared to go down reclaiming routes, but would prefer a very low short settlement if at all possible, so to those taht we already offered very low full & finals too and that are in default of a CCA request so unenforceable anyway, he wants to play hardball (now he's getting it) and send a follow up letter to them in the interim. Would this be sufficient:

 

"I note that you have refused my Full & Final settlement offer in settlement of this alleged debt and would like to draw your attention to the following. Both you (DCA) and OC are in default of my request for a true signed copy of the CCA pursuant to s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and whilst the default continues you (DCA) or OC are not entitled to enforce any part of this alleged agreement and therefore your threats of legal action are futile.

 

I believe my offer is reasonable based on the unlawful charges and associated interest that has been added while the account has been in dispute and my current circumstances. This offer was made on the clear understanding that once accepted it cleared me from any further liability, that neither you, OC or any other 3rd party would pursue me for the balnce which would be written off and my credit files updated accordingly as adverse data should legally never have been entered due to the disputed status of this debt.

Furthermore, my relative will only release these funds providing the above conditions are met and as it is their money there is no further room for negotiation. My offer of £xxxxx still stands, however be advised that after 30th July 2010 it will be withdrawn.

 

Comments would be appreciated.....

 

 

Hello there horsemad1,

 

OK, that letter, well, you are saying "Alledged account/debt", but you are offering to pay something to an account that you say is an alledged account, so why pay anything at all. ( Don't take that the wrong way)

 

Horsemad1, you are in dispute with these creditors and the account, if you can, go and have a look at a Full & Final Settlement offer letter that I drafted for a poster called johno23 in the legal issues forum, and then come back here and I will see what I can do with your letter.

 

You must understand that your offer of settlement needs to be binding on the creditor who accepts, so the wording needs to be clear and concise, the terms of the offer must be unequivocally meant as final payment in settlement of the account.

 

I will be on-line for probably 1hr. johno23's thread is titled ' Court papers received' in the legal issues, if you have a look at that letter it will give you a greater understanding of how to word your settlement offer.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

OK horsemad1,

 

Have you considered a 'Composition agreement' with your creditors?

 

Clearly you are indispute with your creditors, if you keep reminding them that they are in default by not complying with your request for a true copy of the original agreement, then they will just make one up and send it to you.

 

A Composition agreement is where you have a lump sum available and you offer pro-rata payments to your creditors, the money is divided up amongst your creditors.

 

The benefit of a composition agreement is that the rule of consideration need not apply, and if one creditor accepts then they all must accept, they would all be bound to the instrument and they would have no legal right to pursue you for any remaining balance.

 

Can you post up your original offer letter, and the creditors response letters?

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

 

PS. You are in genuine dispute with the account, you do not need the creditors permission to send in your offer of settlement with the cheque payment attached.

[horsemad1]

Thanks for the replies. I know what you mean The Mould, I nicked some of the wording from letter templates regarding non receipt of CCA requests, but can see how it contradicts itself. Will have alook at your post for Jono23, here is the contents of my offer letter.

 

"I write with reference to the money which you are claiming on the above account.I can confirm that I am unable to offer to pay the money which I owe in full, due to being in financial difficulty, furthermore following my requests you and Lloyds have failed to supply me with a compliant true and certified copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement for this account which therefore renders this account unenforceable at law. However, with the help of a family member I can raise £1500.46 and I want to offer this an ex-gratia payment in full and final settlement of the account. This offer is made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither you nor any associate company will take any other action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that I will be released for any liability. I also request that, if accepted, you will make an entry on a credit reference agency file relating to the above account as "satisfied" in full and any default notices be removed due to the ‘disputed’ status of this account. Payment can be made by the 30th July 2010 and would request receiving your written agreement of this offer and method of payment. I look forward to receiving your reply".

 

As I have approx 10 replies, it may take a bit of time to post them all up, but basically all say thanks for your offer but we are unable to accept and ask that you contact us to make alternative arrangements and should I fail to respond within 7 days they may instruct solicitors to pursue/ take further action. I included a spreadsheet showing all my debts and how each debt was pro-rated using the lump sum I had available with each one of my F&F letters, so each creditor could see that it had been distributed fairly...

[The Mould]

Thanks for the replies. I know what you mean The Mould, I nicked some of the wording from letter templates regarding non receipt of CCA requests, but can see how it contradicts itself. Will have alook at your post for Jono23, here is the contents of my offer letter.

 

"I write with reference to the money which you are claiming on the above account.I can confirm that I am unable to offer to pay the money which I owe in full, due to being in financial difficulty, furthermore following my requests you and Lloyds have failed to supply me with a compliant true and certified copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement for this account which therefore renders this account unenforceable at law. However, with the help of a family member I can raise £1500.46 and I want to offer this an ex-gratia payment in full and final settlement of the account. This offer is made on the clear understanding that, if accepted, neither you nor any associate company will take any other action to enforce or pursue this debt in any way whatsoever and that I will be released for any liability. I also request that, if accepted, you will make an entry on a credit reference agency file relating to the above account as "satisfied" in full and any default notices be removed due to the ‘disputed’ status of this account. Payment can be made by the 30th July 2010 and would request receiving your written agreement of this offer and method of payment. I look forward to receiving your reply".

 

As I have approx 10 replies, it may take a bit of time to post them all up, but basically all say thanks for your offer but we are unable to accept and ask that you contact us to make alternative arrangements and should I fail to respond within 7 days they may instruct solicitors to pursue/ take further action. I included a spreadsheet showing all my debts and how each debt was pro-rated using the lump sum I had available with each one of my F&F letters, so each creditor could see that it had been distributed fairly...

 

OK horsemad1,

 

I am going off-line in a few minuets.

 

What you need to do now, is supersede that offer so that you replace your admission to the full amount owed.

 

Its alright, don't worry about posting all the replies from your creditors, as there is a genuine dispute, you could make your offer of Full and Final Settlement 'Without any admission of liability to the amount claimed on the account'.

 

Include the provision in the terms of offer for them to return the cheque payment enclosed within 7 days if they cannot or will not or are unable to accept the cheque payment as a Full and Final Settlement payment to the account.

 

They are in default, that's obvious, but the agreement is still there and still live, if they produce an agreement they could take enforcement route, so its best not to remind them about your CCA request.

 

I will try and get back on tonight and help with the wording of your letter.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[horsemad1]

Thanks Mould, I have received some of the agreements previously from SAR'ing the OC, but these were either application forms, or had important info missing like the credit limit, apr, my signature etc. As they are all circa. 2003-2005 so pre April 2007 I thought they had to have the correct prescribed terms and conditions on the body of the agreement to make it enforceable?

[The Mould]

Thanks Mould, I have received some of the agreements previously from SAR'ing the OC, but these were either application forms, or had important info missing like the credit limit, apr, my signature etc. As they are all circa. 2003-2005 so pre April 2007 I thought they had to have the correct prescribed terms and conditions on the body of the agreement to make it enforceable?

 

 

Yes horsemad1, that is correct, but what you must not lose sight of is the fact that the debt remains, it is still there, it has not disappeared in a puff of smoke.

 

So these particular agreements cannot be legally enforced, but those creditors will continue to send the letters and make the phone calls.

 

If the letters that they send to you imply that they can take action against you if you do not make a payment, then they are committing an offence under the Malicious Communications Act and it can also be argued that their actions constitute offences under the Fraud Act.

 

Further to that, their conduct could amount to Harassment under the Harassment Act, the OFT's( Debt collection guidlines)-Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

So you have a fair amount of ammo to put in the cannon.

 

I am going to send you a pm, when you read it, you will understand why I sent it in a pm.

 

I will be on-line here for about 1hr, then back tommorow.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[The Mould]

OK horsemad1,

 

I will catch up with you tommorrow and I will draft a letter for you to use, if of course it meets with your approval.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[horsemad1]

Hi Mould have read your pm thank you. The F&F letters I sent were taken from the National Debtline and from researching F&F on the internet, it would appear to be the standard template that is used, perhaps it should be adapted then if you are dealing in unenforceable credit agreements. Your help in drafting a letter would be gratefully appreciated, I read Johno23's thread with interest and hope for a similar success. Is there case law on cashing a cheque if all the terms are set out in the accompanying letter? Will have a look around to see what I can find.

[The Mould]

Hi Mould have read your pm thank you. The F&F letters I sent were taken from the National Debtline and from researching F&F on the internet, it would appear to be the standard template that is used, perhaps it should be adapted then if you are dealing in unenforceable credit agreements. Your help in drafting a letter would be gratefully appreciated, I read Johno23's thread with interest and hope for a similar success. Is there case law on cashing a cheque if all the terms are set out in the accompanying letter? Will have a look around to see what I can find.

 

 

OK horsemad1,

 

I am still on the forum at the moment, yes have a look at the case law, that will help furnish your mind with knowledge about these settlements.

 

On another note but still relevant, do not use templated letters as more often than not they don't work.

 

I will catch up with you tommorrow then and go through a letter to send to them.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

 

PS. I did write a thread on Full and Final Settlements, its in the legal issues forum, that should also help you and your OH.

[horsemad1]

Thanks Mould. My Oh is panicking now that we may have scuppered our chances of settling this out of court by following the Templated letters as advised by National Debtline... Will be online tommorrow also, will await your reply. Thank you for your help.

[The Mould]

Thanks Mould. My Oh is panicking now that we may have scuppered our chances of settling this out of court by following the Templated letters as advised by National Debtline... Will be online tommorrow also, will await your reply. Thank you for your help.

 

Hello there horsemad1,

 

I have received email from the forum, so, don't panic, its easy for me to say I know, but really don't worry.

 

I am going to send you another pm, this may take me about 20 mins to write, but it will be there shortly.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould

[Bigdebtor]

Thanks Mould. My Oh is panicking now that we may have scuppered our chances of settling this out of court by following the Templated letters as advised by National Debtline... Will be online tommorrow also, will await your reply. Thank you for your help.

 

Horsemad1

 

Basically until you are all sat down in court it is NEVER too late to settle out of court - so tell OH to stop panicking. My experience is they will always listen to an offer - even at the eleventh hour - especially if they know you are willing to fight on and have good ammo against them.

 

It looks like The Mould is on top of things and being very helpful to you via pm. However since there will undoubtedly be loads of other people who can benefit from the same advice and use the same weapons can I ask you both to consider posting as much as you can on this thread, using pm's only where absolutely necessary?

 

BD

[horsemad1]

Hi BD, I think the Mould pm'd me some important info so that possible 'prying eyes' would not pick up on it, but appreciate what your saying, as from reading other relevant threads I've learned loads! So will endeavour to post up what I can.

[The Mould]

Hello there BD,

 

Sorry about that BD, but there was a couple of important points that horsemad1 and the OH needed to be aware of, so it needed to be done in pm only, we don't want to give the enemy any ammo.

 

If you or anyone would like some advice on Full and Final Settlements then post up your question and I will answer when I can.

 

Kind Regards

 

The Mould