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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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Bailiff for Business Rates help please!


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Hi my fiend reccomended I come here.I'm hoping someone may be able to help me?

 

I run a small pet shop and the business has been really struggling. This is my first year of business. I messed up and didnt pay my business rates for last year. The council sent me a couple of letters but it went to the flat above who has the same number as my shop but my shop is A on the end. I got a letter from a bailiff last week saying i owed 425.00. I was going to call to sort it out but had a close family bereavement so have been caught up with that.

 

Today my fiancee rang to say the bailiff was there and was going to take everything. I spoke to him and explained why i hadnt called and asked if he could give me until Tuesday as I needed to go to the council to ask about small business relief. he said it was too late for that, he debt was now at 1110.40 and unless he had 277.00 within the next 20 minutes and agreement for a paymanet plan he would start removing things from the shop.

 

I couldnt afford 277 so he agreed to take 200. i paid the money and agreed 80.00 per month over the phone. I can afford this so am ok with the monthyl payments but he said he would do it only if i gave permission for my fiance to sign the posession agreement so i did.

 

the bailiff has listed all of the products and shelving including little platic baskets but not the freezer which i thought was odd but not moaning about.

 

i have a couple of questions:

 

firstly the agreement says if i dont pay he will come and take everything on the list so I dont see how i can now sell them to customers?

 

also the charges, the council confirmed the outstanding balance as 1001.00. he has added 24.50 first visit fee, 18.00 second visit 54.00 levy charge 12.00 walking posession fee and 24.50 admin fee.

 

Is this right? how can i sell my products to make money if he now posses them?

 

im so confused

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Hello Tink,

 

1) Count yourself lucky The £80 a month is unusually reasonable for business rates so i (personaly) wouldn't 'rock the boat' on this one until it's paid off.

 

2) The charges are (unusually) correct other than the £24.50 admin fee. I would wait until the very end of your arrangement to challenge this and I'm sure it will disappear. They know they are trying it on.

 

3) As for selling the stock - WOW! that IS a question. I've never thought of that before, and believe me I've done a lot of thinking on this subject!!

 

Technically you are correct. The stock now belongs to the bailiff and it is a criminal offense to sell it. However, this situation will have applied to any business that has been subject to a levy, all of whom carry on trading as normal. Indeed the bailiff wants you to carry on trading - he wants the money, not your stock.

 

You obviously need to carry on trading by selling the stock, and i've never heard of anyone getting into trouble for doing that - so get on with it!

 

The technicality you have thrown up is VERY interesting, i hope someone on here has got the answer or I'm going to have to research this until i find out.

 

Just remember to pay early , preferably by card, and get a receipt (online) or transaction number (over the phone). This is important because if you are 1 day late they will turn up with a van and charge you hundreds of pounds!!

 

If you send cheques they might mysteriously not get cashed in time and the van could turn up!

 

You've been treated OK as it goes.

 

Good luck with your business.

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A common strategy which is commonplace amongst bailiffs is that although they have taken possession of the goods they allow the business to trade so long as they are replaced. This is clearly what the Bailiff has done. You must keep to your replacement schedule to ensure the Bailiff doesnt return and seize the goods for sale at an auction.On the fee scale I would question the 2nd visit fee if he only attended once.On the subject of the commercial refrigerator/ freezer, they sell for very little and if they fail to sell at auction the Bailiff will have to pay for the disposal fee, as it is hazardous to the environment.

Provider of case history to encourage adherence of the High Court Enforcement Regulations 2004.

 

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Where distress is levied upon a trading business, the stock and materials seized under a walking possession agreement, must be sold by the firm. Technically if the business sold the goods they would breach the walking possession agreement, and to allow it would be "abandonment2 by the bailiff.The normal solution is to allow the the trader to sell the seized goods as long as they are replaced. To avoid abandonment the bailiff should note on the inventory that the stock will change and that this has been agreed with the debtor. Regular visits must be made to check that the quantity of goods still remains the same. For this paractice to work the Bailiff must either seize more goods to replace the sold stock OR take seize the money taken from the sale of the former levied stock. This practice would not be used to levy for Distress. A case file showing this as sanctioned practice by the courts is Dalton ex p Herrington 7 Carmichael vTrustee [1963] CH336.Abandonment by the bailiff cannot be proved in cases where there is an arrangement in place. There is case law to support this: Any sort of agreement or arrangement with the debtor is likely to be evidence of impounding contrary to a claim of abandonment (Anderson v Henry[1898] 29 OR 719.

Edited by Fair&Balanced

Provider of case history to encourage adherence of the High Court Enforcement Regulations 2004.

 

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Thanks for this guys. tobe honest he was really nice (or seemed so) on the phone. He aske how business was and said-honestly, how is the busines doing. i said really badly got hardly anything in the bank. so he said he would take 100 per month. i asked him to let me pay the 200 today and the other 77 with the 1st payment of 80 next month and he said that as he had just been saying to my partner how reasonable a bailiff he is, that he should be now and said pay me 200 today and just 80.00 a month.

 

sounds like i may have spoken to the only decent bailiff on the earth?!

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Thanks for this guys. tobe honest he was really nice (or seemed so) on the phone. He aske how business was and said-honestly, how is the busines doing. i said really badly got hardly anything in the bank. so he said he would take 100 per month. i asked him to let me pay the 200 today and the other 77 with the 1st payment of 80 next month and he said that as he had just been saying to my partner how reasonable a bailiff he is, that he should be now and said pay me 200 today and just 80.00 a month.

 

sounds like i may have spoken to the only decent bailiff on the earth?!

 

Beware the smiling assassin! First foot you put wrong and Bob certainly won't be your uncle.

 

 

PT

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Thanks PlodderTom. Very good advice! I will be careful.

 

He said its better an quiker to pay over the phone each month. He said it does incurr a 1.50 charge each time but you dont run the risk of cheques not getting there etc. bit cheeky charging i think but dont want to risk the chque getting there late.

 

reading through, it seems he would sell stuff at auction. How much would he make on dog treats? just seems weird but i guess they just have to levy on whatever is there?

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Hi my fiend reccomended I come here.I'm hoping someone may be able to help me?

 

I run a small pet shop and the business has been really struggling. This is my first year of business. I messed up and didnt pay my business rates for last year. The council sent me a couple of letters but it went to the flat above who has the same number as my shop but my shop is A on the end. I got a letter from a bailiff last week saying i owed 425.00. I was going to call to sort it out but had a close family bereavement so have been caught up with that.

 

Today my fiancee rang to say the bailiff was there and was going to take everything. I spoke to him and explained why i hadnt called and asked if he could give me until Tuesday as I needed to go to the council to ask about small business relief. he said it was too late for that, he debt was now at 1110.40 and unless he had 277.00 within the next 20 minutes and agreement for a paymanet plan he would start removing things from the shop.

 

I couldnt afford 277 so he agreed to take 200. i paid the money and agreed 80.00 per month over the phone. I can afford this so am ok with the monthyl payments but he said he would do it only if i gave permission for my fiance to sign the posession agreement so i did.

 

the bailiff has listed all of the products and shelving including little platic baskets but not the freezer which i thought was odd but not moaning about.

 

i have a couple of questions:

 

firstly the agreement says if i dont pay he will come and take everything on the list so I dont see how i can now sell them to customers?

 

also the charges, the council confirmed the outstanding balance as 1001.00. he has added 24.50 first visit fee, 18.00 second visit 54.00 levy charge 12.00 walking posession fee and 24.50 admin fee.

 

Is this right? how can i sell my products to make money if he now posses them?

 

im so confused

 

baliff can only charge 2nd visit fee if he has been twice, who signed the walk in possession order, how did your £425 debt get up to £1100 in a week without excess baliff fee's ???

 

the baliff has to show authirisation from council etc... to debtor, the council will be showing £1100 on their baliff account because the baliff has probably loaded the fee's with removal van etc that has not been used yet, if you can give me more info then i can point you in the right direction, if your liability order from the council is for £425 then the baliff fees have been loaded and the council dont realise the situation

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Thanks PlodderTom. Very good advice! I will be careful.

 

He said its better an quiker to pay over the phone each month. He said it does incurr a 1.50 charge each time but you dont run the risk of cheques not getting there etc. bit cheeky charging i think but dont want to risk the chque getting there late.

 

reading through, it seems he would sell stuff at auction. How much would he make on dog treats? just seems weird but i guess they just have to levy on whatever is there?

 

they cant levy on whatever is there, i am not sure about stock, i have read something somewhere but need to check it out...... you MUST ask the baliff for a breakdown of charges and if there is something called enforcement fee than that dont exist and he is blagging you for more cash, your fee's should be less than £100 but they make their money by scaruing people and no one challenges them, you need to ask for the fee breakdown urgently

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£425 to £1100

 

I'm confused by that as well. I assumed given that the fees have been itemized and aren't that excessive that the £425 was a mistake.

 

The levy fee correlates to a LO for around £1000.

 

£425 would be way to low for business rates on a shop - unless he's paid half of it already.

 

Perhaps Tink could clarify or contact the council to find out.

 

I'm sure they can do stock westgarth, but not if you haven't paid for it i.e it's on account.

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he said he would only enter into payment arrangement and not take all of my stock in the next 20 minutes if i authorised my fiance to sign the WPA for me. I was really worried so I did. i couldnt get there as I was over an hour away. I checked with council via phone and they said it was at 1001 when it left them which i dont understand as the 1st bailiff letter said 425.

 

i asked him to leave a breakdown of charges and they are as written above.

Thats what is written on the form. He said he didnt get a signature, he would just take things anyway.

 

without stock, i would have to close down and would still be liable for rent etc which i wouldnt be able to afford so jut did what he said

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thanks for that. I dont think im going to argue it too much> 80.00 is actually lower than the origional required by the council, Having said that I didnt have small business relief added.

 

I have just been checking through some other posts and theres one from beyong hope. someone on there has said if your disputing the amount and/or applying for relief they shouldnt pursue distrss. can anyone clarify?

 

mind you, dont want to annoy them and loose my stuff!

 

thanks for all your help guys. Its a horrible scary thing, Its great to know there is somewhere to go other than the CAB that although is helpful, you can harldy ever get an appointment at.

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I have just been checking through some other posts and theres one from beyong hope. someone on there has said if your disputing the amount and/or applying for relief they shouldnt pursue distrss. can anyone clarify?

 

The Bailiff can keep enforcing at all times unless the employing authority asks them to put things on hold or cancels the action.

 

 

PT

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Good news on this years NNDR.

 

My local authority has sent out letters stating that 100% relief will apply to businesses with £6000 or less RV, starting in October, for one year. (subject to parliamentary approval)

 

They will not suspend enforcement as PT says, but i pray you still qualify for last years small business relief (usually 50%)

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i think im going to strugle. couldnt really afford it in the first place. I will go down the council offices Tuesday. The bailiff said if the grant retrospective discount, they will email the bailiff and it willl come off of the total.

 

reading through i think its not anywhere need as bad an outcome as i could have had!

 

some people have had an awful time.

 

makes me feel silly really putting it on here now.

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Thanks for your help everyone.

 

I hope you all have a good easter and a Baillif free one at that!

 

I'll update this with how i get on at the council.

 

Everyones help is very much appreciated!

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did the baliff comply to this part of the regulation ?

 

" The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 3 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into."

 

The main part of this above regulation for me is the word debtor, if anyone other than the debtor can sign the walking possession order then the baliff could stop someone in the street, a customer on the premises etc and get them to sign, and surely its not that simple - or is it Mr High Court Officer ?

 

I would say that the baliff can levy distress without anyone being there but not just anyone can sign the possession order - thinking about it if that was the case that anyone can sign then the baliffs would bring along muppet number 2 who just happened to be there at the time to act as the signiture man?????

 

you definatley need to get absolute clarification from the council as to the exact amount of the debt, if it is £1100 then the charges are about right, but the baliff office should send you an itemised breakdown of cost not just hand written on the bottom of a piece of paper by a numpty who's incentive is to make as much money out of you as possible.

 

I would say that if you as the debtor didnt sign the possession order it aint legal.... anyone got an exact answer plzz

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i think im going to strugle. couldnt really afford it in the first place. I will go down the council offices Tuesday. The bailiff said if the grant retrospective discount, they will email the bailiff and it willl come off of the total.

 

reading through i think its not anywhere need as bad an outcome as i could have had!

 

some people have had an awful time.

 

makes me feel silly really putting it on here now.

 

i think they will give backdated discount, they are always behind anyway and i am sure that in the past few years i have had it backdated, not by a year though but definatley from the beggining of the acount year so do it quick..

 

please keep me informed for future reference

 

happy easter

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The bailiff fees are wrong, he cannot charge for a visit and a levy on the same day.

 

This is what he can charge.

 

First visit fee: £24.50 This is for a first attendance to levy, but where a levy does not takes place.

The bailiff can charge a levy fee if they levy, but he cannot charge both amounts on the same occasion.

 

Second visit fee: £18.00

Despite any further visits, the bailiff can only charge for a maximum of 2 visits.

If its the first time he has been then he cannot charge you for the 2nd visit,

so the most he can charge is the levy fee, and WPO.

 

The are not allowed to take 'white goods', hence why he didnt levy on the freezer, but as your a business its always a gray area with what they can and cannot levy,

 

So take off the 1st and 2nd fee plus the admin fee and what is left is what you should be paying in fees.

I would write and complain to the council that the bailiff is trying to over charge you by £68.00 in unlawful fee's.

Make sure he has not excessively levied either, what he should of done is levied on stock to the amount of the debt plus his fees plus removal cost (about£150.00) plus auction cost.

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Sorry Tink, seanamarts is right about the Levy and visit fee on the same visit - i missed that.

 

If there was only ever one visit i.e the one where he levied, then yes both visit fees should be removed.

 

Like i say, it would probably be wiser to kick up a fuss at the end ( the last payment). I wouldn't mess with the most generous business rates installment arrangement in history for £68 at this point.

 

Just my opinion.

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The are not allowed to take 'white goods', hence why he didnt levy on the freezer, but as your a business its always a gray area with what they can and cannot levy,

 

.

 

Its a business so they can. A freezer is not "exempt goods" for a trading business. The environmental disposal payment following it not selling at auction would be the reason.

Provider of case history to encourage adherence of the High Court Enforcement Regulations 2004.

 

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