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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB ***WON UNCONDITIONALLY WITH CONTRACTUAL INTEREST***


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Such a great story from start to finish...............perhaps you could still benefit after all by selling the film rights !!!:D

All opinions and advice I offer are purely my own, and are offered without any liability. If unsure seek the help of a licensed professional

...just because something's in print doesn't mean its true.... just look at you Banks T&C's for example !

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Well Lucid, even if it is the flat you're living in, it will still be yours, and now it looks like your luck has changed for the better. Hope you will keep dropping in to this site from time to time, because I for one have learnt a lot from your posts, and of course Mindzai's spreadsheet has been given great reviews! So I'm sure you would be able to help future claimants.

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Congratulations again to you both - you both deserve to get your additional costs after all you have gone through. I hope you will be very happy in your home (not new but now yours!) and.... if you get the dog, for heavens sake get it insured! Our 18mth Lab has cost £3500 so far in vets fees but the insurance has met most of the cost! Please keep a beady eye on the site cos so many of us will need your advice - who knows, a new career (or book!) may beckon.

Debs x

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Thanks photoman, ladybird and empowered.

 

Yes we will be sticking around to help others.

 

Debs - we've already got the dog as seen in my signature picture below and another picture is in my profile, probably very over the top but he's very special to us and I like showing him off. :) We rescued him from DogsTrust Salisbury when he was 18 weeks old, he's almost 4 now. We just don't have a garden for him at the moment but he copes very well. I have to take him out for several walks a day to compensate. Yes we do have insurance from him - it's definitely worth having just in case.

 

Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

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Well done, Lucid (&Mindzai). Fabulous stuff!!!!

 

Westy

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Well done to both of you. I do love a happy ending:)

Son v Halifax settled in full £292

Another son v Halifax settled in full £30

Bigmama59 v NatWest settled in full £4739.69:)

Son v Halifax 2nd claim settled in full £130

Bigmama v Halifax settled in full £1125

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Thanks to both of you. Your posts have been an inspiration !!!

 

Congrats and best wishes :D

 

~S~

Griffin

04/01/07 New S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) sent by RECORDED DELIVERY

05/01/07 Delivery of S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) confirmed by Royal Mail

18/01/07 S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) data received

09/02/07 Prelim letter sent.

16/02/07 Frist template response received (nothing out of the ordinary).

23/02/07 LBA sent.

22/03/07 Claim issued to County Court

28/03/07 Claim served on Lloyds TSB (to reply by 11/04/07)

16/04/07 Acknowledgement of service (date stamped 12/04/07) received. Lloyds intend to defend the whole of the claim.(Lloyds' defense to be filed by 25/04/07)

26/04/07 Received Lloyds defense (standard 9 point) AQ to be returned by 11/05/07

09/05/07 My AQ returned to court

22/05/07 Lloyds have not met the AQ deadline. Court give them until 05 June to file

05/06/07 AQ filed by Lloyds with application for 1 month stay

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Hi everyone,

 

We got an order for each of our claims from the court today:

 

General Form of Judgment or Order

Upon reading letters from both sides

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

 

1. Hearing vacated

 

2. Claimant's application for costs based on defendants alleged unreasonable conduct of the litigation be adjourned generally with liberty to restore.

 

3. Defendant be permitted to reply to claimant's application contained in claimant's letter of 06/02/07 a copy of which is attached to this order, in writing to the court and claimants by 15/02/07.

 

4. Claimants be permitted to respond (if so advised) to the defendant's reply referred to in clause 3 of this order by 01/03/07.

 

5. District Judge xxxx will issue a written decision no later than 7 days after compliance with clause 4 of this order. Dated 07 Febraury 2007.

Attached to this order is our letter to the court, the Lincoln abuse order, list of settled cases and our schedule of costs. I wonder what the bank's response is going to be - if any. I guess they're going to have to try to explain how they've behaved reasonably. Am I right to assume that the court will have sent a copy of this order to the relevant department of the bank along with our letter and schedule of costs? I'm just a bit concerned becuase we sent our letter and schedule of costs unrecorded to the Recovery Centre - not SC&M. I'm probably worrying about nothing but don't want the bank to turn around and say we never sent them this letter - just because I sent it unrecorded or possibly to the wrong department. I suppose if the court has sent them the order it doesn't really matter if they deny us sending them the letter.

 

We'll update if we hear anything from the bank.

 

Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

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Oooh lovely!! Can't wait to see how this pans out - very interesting indeed. The ball is now very much in their court to respond to the allegations contained within your letter. I can't see them responding at all to be honest, but I could be wrong.

 

This is fantastic and is now the way forward IMO. They've got away with settling quietly at the last minute by the back door for far to long, if we can force some consequences such as in this case then it becomes less comfortable for them to continue as they have indefinately, and hopefully we'll start to see much earlier settlements. The screw is most definately turning!!:D;)

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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I completely agree and I advise anybody who is in the process or is beginning the process of claiming back their charges to note down everything you have had to do and spend to pursue the claim - because it really does add up, and it's comletely unfair that we should have to pay out for their time wasting. I'm not certain that we will get costs awarded or not but I think it's worth everybody attempting.

 

Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

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Hi, Lucid

 

The Court will send a copy of the Order to SC&M.

 

In general terms, once a case is carried forward by solicitors, that's where all correspondence relating to it should go. Shouldn't worry on this occasion, though but it could have been different if, for example, you'd sent a CPR Part 18 request to the Recovery Department, rather than SC&M. They could then legitimately claim that they hadn't receive it and you were taking the mick if you applied for a strike-down or anything.

 

I also think it's best to send everything Special Delivery - guaranteed next-day delivery, signed for, tracked on the web, etc., etc.

 

But well done - it's looking very good for you.

 

Westy

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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It's particularly nice that the Judge is only giving them 7 days to respond.

 

About bl**dy time!

 

W

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Hi Westy,

 

Yes normally we have beens ending everything first class recorded but I think we thought that there was no point with this as technically the claim had finished - that's also why I assumed I had to send it to Customer Recovery (which is the bank address we put on our claim form). :rolleyes: Nevermind - at least it won't affect it in anyway.

 

It'll be very interesting to see what they say - if anything. My first thought was the same as GaryH's in that they won't reply - how on earth can they prove they've acted reasonably? I assume if they don't we just write to the Judge at the deadline and let them know - I guess this will be even more proof of them behaving unreasonablynot look good on them at all. Then I assume it's down to the Judge who may very well not award costs at all. But I think it's a good thing that the Judge has given this order though when they could have easily rejected our costs claim.

 

Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Yes - it looks promising.

 

W

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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:D:d:d

Westy

 

 

 

If you like my post, click the scales!!

 

Nov 1 2006 Preliminary letter

21 Feb 2007 - cheque arrived for charges+DEBIT interest +Statutory Interest! Hurray!

Read all about it: natwesttookmymoney - v- NatWest

DONATE AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO KEEP THE SITE GOING.

 

What can you claim? Vampiress has a good idea:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/69877-what-can-you-claim.html

Anything I say is just a suggestion. I'm a bigmouth, not a lawyer!

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Hi everyone - I've got a good update. :D

 

Checked my sole account balance again this evening to see that H OFF-FINANCE(AG7) have paid in £683.57! At today's date the total owed to me with interest is £749.62. So I've just been doing some working out and I have come to the following conclusion on what they have paid:

 

Total charges of £380 and overdraft interest of £72.03

Court costs of £80

Letter writing costs of £6

29.85% contractual (compounded) interest up until the date I filed the claim of £140.55

 

This makes a total of £678.58. Then they have very randomly awarded me 10.32 days interest at the daily rate of £0.48 which makes £4.99. :rolleyes: So as of today's date they still owe me £66.05.

 

I've been through all of the options and they definitely have awarded intreest at the unauthorised rate. So it looks as though I am going to be phoning them tomorrow (if they're open) or on Monday to accept it as partial settlement and to get the rest of my money. It's very almost over for my sole account though. Unfortunately the majority of their payment has been swallowed up by a £609.69 overdraft but at least it no longer exists. :D

 

Still nothing on Mindzai's sole account or the joint account. We will keep checking over the weekend. I wasn't expecting it though as my account was the only one not to receive a settlement offer. We're not going to be celebrating yet - not until all of our money for every account returned, but it certainly looks promising.

 

Lucid :)

 

Hi Lucid,

 

I am pretty much ready to send my Prem letter, can you tell me on you stated when added the contractual interest. Is the following okay or should I included more:

 

"I calculate (inclusive of £84.93 contractual interest) that you have taken £539.93".

Lloyds TSB: Settled after FO assistance

Co-operative Bank: Settled - Goodwill gesture:)

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Hi Nads,

 

We put the following in our LBAs:

 

I calculate that you have applied £xxx in levies and further, I also claim interest at a rate of 29.8% AER as set out in the attached list of charges. I believe this rate to be justified under the principle of mutuality and reciprocity, and is based on your Unauthorised Overdraft interest rate that would be applied under the terms of the above mentioned account. Therefore the total amount owed as of today’s date is £xxx.

 

That's how we worded it anyway.

 

Lucid :)

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

*Won unconditionally with contractual interest (29.85% compounded)

Lucid's Account - £749.62 * Joint Account - £2019.64 * Mindzai's Account - £595.65

*All settled in full - 6/2/07

*Hearings - 7/2/07

*Prelims sent - 9/8/06

_______

GOT A COURT DATE? A guide to the later stages

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Hi Nads,

 

We put the following in our LBAs:

 

 

 

That's how we worded it anyway.

 

Lucid :)

 

Thanks, I'll be posting mine off 2morrow, LOL

Lloyds TSB: Settled after FO assistance

Co-operative Bank: Settled - Goodwill gesture:)

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Congratulations to you both Mindzai & Lucid !! :D

 

I am so chuffed for you - you both deserve a medal for your patience and tenacity, and I am so so glad its all paid off for you both. :razz:

 

I too have been following your thread with interest, but have been away from the pc for a few days - I was delighted when I checked in today and saw the result!!

 

WELL DONE!!!

 

Spiritgirl ;)

Please note I am not legally qualified, I am offering advice based on my own personal experience in the hope that it may be of help to others in a similar situation.

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Lloyds time for complying with the Judge's order was up yesterday. we haven't received anything, so we will be posting this today:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing in reference to the General Form of Judgement or Order issued on 8th February 2007.

 

I would like to inform you that the Defendant has not replied to our application for costs based on the Defendant’s unreasonable behaviour by the specified date of 15th February 2007, as outlined in clause 3 of the order.

 

Should the Defendant reply to our application at any point, I will endeavour to ensure that our reply reaches you on or before the deadline of 1st March 2007 as outlined in clause 4 of the order.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

Mindzai

Mindzai & Lucid vs Lloyds TSB

 

Mindzai's Account - Partial settlement offer rejected

Joint Account - Partial settlement offer rejected

_________________________

Spreadsheet for compound contractual interest and statutory (s69) interest:

Download v1.9 [Tested with Excel 97-2007 and OpenOffice 2]

PLEASE NOTE: You should fully research contractual interest before you use that functionality of this spreadsheet. If in any doubt please use it to calculate 8% interest under s69 County Courts Act 1984.

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