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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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in a muddle please help


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Hello to everyone.

 

I have been reading this forum for a couple of days now and my heads spinning with all the info you guy's provide. I hope you might be able to help me.

 

I am in debt because of a divorce (all debts in my name)

 

I owe approx £20.5k to 4 creditors

 

Started defaulting last August 09

 

I then lost my job so I decided to up sticks and go and live in turkey for a while, ive made 1 £1 token payment to all my creditors in January that is it.

I have just come back and need to face the music and get my life back on track and need your advice on the following

 

I have a house in England jointly owned with my ex partner with approx £15k

equity which would be divided equally when I get my order for sale through

 

I have a house in Turkey which is worth £25k which will be divided up equally when I get the order for sale through.

 

Just got myself a new job start 1st April 2010

 

I have spoken to payplan with regards to a dmp and they have taken me on board paying £350 per month. I have not signed and send back this paperwork yet.

 

My question is this do I start the dmp and when the money comes through do a full and final offer letter to my creditors or do I start making token payments again and wait for the money on the property's (approx 3 months wait) then do full and final.

 

What should I do for the best as im really confused:confused::confused:

 

Thanks for your time

 

unhappyfella

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Hello and Welcome,

 

A breakdown of the debts would make it easier for people to advise.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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Hi Sorry

 

here goes I am so ashamed of this situation but here goes

 

£13,000 Personal loan natwest

£2,600 Overdraft Natwest

£1,500 Credit Card Natwest

£968.00 Cahoot Credit Card

£1,600 mbna

£1,300 Argos

 

thanks once again

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Hi,

 

Don't be ashamed, no one's here to judge you, a great number of members on this site have been in the same situation, some a whole lot worse, but with help from people on this site, you should be able to come to some sort of acceptable situation to help you through this.

 

How old are the debts ?

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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I'd wait till you have Payplan on board & you've been with them for a short while first. It may then be better showing you have payplan on your side who have assessed all your I & E out already.

 

Should you not want to offer the F & F letters yourself ie lets say at 35-50% payplan can do that on your behalf too (although think they may work the payments out differently on there F & Finals, you'd have to ask!!) Good luck

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Hello and thank you for the response.

 

do you think it is to early to offer full and final settlement after only 6 months of defaulting ?

 

should I wait a little longer ?

 

So what you have said from the thread ubove if I am understanding it correctly is start my payplan and then offer the full and final.

 

All my creditors currently think that im in turkey as ive only been back a week will this have any implications or make any difference ?

 

sorry to ask so many questions

 

thank you

 

unhappyfella

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I'm not best to advise either way when to do it I'm afraid, having Payplan on board myself I found this has been better at getting interest stopped on our debts & they sorted a monthly payment we could afford too.

 

From time to time we do get letters sent to us from creditors offering settlement offers but thats coz we have been with Payplan for many years so can't imagine the creditors would succumb after just 6mths for you. Our settlement figures offered are never what we would be able to do anyway. As yet we are not in a position to offer anything anyway, although understand you can negotiate better esp if they may not have a leg to stand on with the CCA paperwork in place etc.

 

As Maroondevo52 said, how old are the debts & have you thought to apply to see what paperwork they hold on you? Also have you ever had any Default notices.

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Hi the accounts have been defaulting since august 09 with just 1no £1 token payment in January at present I have had no defaults that im aware of as all my mail goes to turkey at present. However im staying at my friends now for a couple of weeks before I find a place of my own and i tried to open a basic bank account with co-op with got refered. im also now afraid i will have my creditors chasing me at my friends which i really dont want to happen so any advice on this also would be great.

 

Once I am in my own place I will start my payplan and hopefully the creditors will catch up with me there.

 

I will proberly be able to raise around £13,000 now which my friend would lend me now do you think they would accept this ? without me starting any plan at all?.

 

Also I will ask all my creditors to send me the cca even though i am not really sure what this does or does not do.

 

On top of this problem I have the added pressure of having a foreign wife she is from russia, in order for me to be able to apply for a spouse visa for her I need to show that I have enough disposable income each month of around £400 which is a requirement of our goverment I don't know how this will fit in also.

 

My life is just one big mess and i feel so down any help would be great.

 

 

Kind Regards

 

Unhappyfella

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Hi,

 

Sorry, I had to go off-line last night after answering your posts :rolleyes:

 

Regarding asking for a cca, A debt becomes unenforceable under the CCA if a creditor does not supply a true copy of the signed credit agreement within 12 working days of it being requested.

 

The debt remains unenforceable for as long as the creditor fails to produce the signed credit agreement – this means if they produce the agreement some months down the line, they are quite within their rights to enforce it.

 

 

If after requesting a true copy of a signed credit agreement the creditor fails to produce it, the debtor may now however be in a good position to make a full and final offer to clear the debt.

 

Here's the CCA request template................. ....

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/581-cca-request-letter

 

You can send a CCA request to the following........

 

Personal loan natwest

Credit Card Natwest

Cahoot Credit Card

mbna

Argos

 

Are there any charges on the credit cards and store card which could be re-claimed if they happen to come up with enforceable agreements.

 

Regarding the overdraft, not sure there's a lot you can do about that.

 

Could you tell me how old all the debts are ?

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

If you can, please donate to this site.

Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

If you no longer require help, please do what you can to help others

RIP: Rooster-UK - MARTIN3030 - cerberusalert

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Hi to everybody

 

the debts are approx 1 year old does that make it worse ?

 

With regards to my foreign wife am i allowed to send her money and bank the £400 a month i need to say i can support her for her visa application as she is a dependant as she does not work in russia.

 

the creditors ask to see your wage slips and bank statements as I am looking to pay them £350 month then I could pay my debts in 3-4 months once my houses have been sold.

 

I just really need to save the money for her visa application and pay my creditors at the same time and i don't think this is possible has anyone experienced any thing like this before.

 

 

Kind Regards

 

unhappyfella

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Its likely then if the debts are only 1yr old the paperwork you did to get the credit could be in order then. Understandably creditors will want to know your I & E should you falter as they want proof not take your word for it. Doing it with Payplan means its all being done from one point, then the creditors liaise with them for I & E afterwards so you dont have to.

 

My suggestion would be to pay your credit cards off 1st esp if you are being hammered monthly for interest & late payment charges. Your personal loan if fixed payments are made across the term of the loan will have already incorporated the interest charge from the outset, so it prob wont matter if you pay it any earlier than scheduled, however you could ask them by phone how much an earlier settlement could be offered at (wont do any harm).

 

With regards to your foreign wife, not an area I know anything about. If you have an income each month that pays your bills etc then afterwards have a further disposable income of the £400 stipulated,does that not sort it then for the visa application?

 

It may be better after all you not entering a DMP with Payplan as I'm not sure how they would treat that disposable income, they may see it that it could be used to contribute to your debts instead????

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thank you for you reply

 

I would like to start the dmp with payplan which they have agreed to payplan have asked me for nothing in terms of wage slips and bank statements are you saying once they speak to the creditors they will ask me to send them in ???.

 

I have the £400 per month after I have paid my living costs and payplan for dmp

does this mean I cannot save this money.

 

or should i just contact all creditors myself and split the £350 per month between them on my own or will this not put me in any better position

 

thanks again for your time

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You are quite right in that Payplan dont ask for proof of this & proof of that which is good in the scheme of things esp when your trying to sort your financial matters out so can be at your lowest anyway.

 

If its already been assessed with your£400 still surplus (or used within there calculation methods to not show that as truly surplus on the creditors paperwork) then thats a good thing for you then when your do your Visa App.

 

If you dont want to just pay the debts off altogether then do the DMP and chip away at the debts that way instead, you do get less hassle if your with Payplan than dealing with the creditors yourself.

 

From experience tho, MBNA are not always co-operative of DMP's but that will be dependant on what payments are being offered of course!

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thanks for all you replies mydogsawestie

 

you have been really helpful.

 

its not that my £400 leftover has been calculated into my living costs.

But when I applied to payplan i was with working for one company and two weeks later i got headhunted to another with £400 per month extra income.

 

I am fully aware that i am supposed to declare this and i will however i just want to get my wife across first will which will take 3 months which by this time i will have enough income from the sale of my houses to pay the debt in full.

 

I know what i am asking is wrong but do you think I will be ok

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If you've already had your telephone interview on your I & E done & paperwork submitted then leave it based on that. They will have already costed that orig surplus out amongst your creditors more than likely anyway.

 

In a years time when you have your review meeting to see what circumstances have changed you can update it again then, who knows you may have settled your debts by them with F & F's anyway (which could be still a possibility).

 

Its a case of doing what you need to do in the meantime and that for you I guess also incorporates sorting matters for your wife to be with you by showing this £400 surplus to help in any success towards the visa application - good luck.

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Thank you once again mydogsawestie.

 

So just to confirm once my plan has been agreed paperwork sent back etc neither payplan or creditors will ask for wage slips and bank statements.

 

Just do not want to do the wrong thing and best for both parties ie paying my creditors and getting my wife here

 

if the above is true i shall sign and post my copy of income and expenditure back to payplan along with the standing order mandate to my bank

 

kind regards

 

unhappyfella

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Thank you once again mydogsawestie.

 

So just to confirm once my plan has been agreed paperwork sent back etc neither payplan or creditors will ask for wage slips and bank statements.

 

Just do not want to do the wrong thing and best for both parties ie paying my creditors and getting my wife here

 

if the above is true i shall sign and post my copy of income and expenditure back to payplan along with the standing order mandate to my bank

 

kind regards

 

unhappyfella

 

Creditors if you were doing it without Payplan would want to see everything. I can only give advice on what has been in my experience with Payplan however with anything in life there can never be any guarantees.

 

As mentioned earlier with Payplan I'm not sure how they would treat that disposable income, they may see it that it could be used to contribute to your debts instead????

You need to do what you have to for your own reasons & for your wife to be here with you. I think you may be over-thinking things as it is only going to be for a short period of time anyway as when your money comes through you said you are looking to settle your debts anyway.

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Hi there, I have just read through the posts above.

If you go with Payplan now and make a monthly payment until your property sales have been completed, this will help lower your debts in the meantime. It may also keep your creditors sweet.

Payplan DMP do not ask for proof of anything - they only need a signed authority from you in order to act on your behalf. You do not have to provide proof of your income.

When your property sales are complete, you can then contact Payplan, explain what monies you have available, and they will then write to all creditors to find out what they would be wiling to accept, and then offer this lump sum on your behalf. If they choose to accept this, your debts will then be cleared. x

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