HSBC - Agreement and Default Notice

[bilious]

Hi there! Just a quick piece of advice please have had a final notice from my CC company and was wondering if you'd look over the DN and the final notice for me, have been told that the DN is invalid. And would like your opininon on them and advice on what to do next as their doing the usual threats by the 26th of this month etc!!!

 

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/tuvelpit69/tn.jpg

 

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/tuvelpit69/dn.jpg

 

Thanks in advance for your help chaps!!!

[brooooooooooce]

Hi there! Just a quick piece of advice please have had a final notice from my CC company and was wondering if you'd look over the DN and the final notice for me, have been told that the DN is invalid. And would like your opininon on them and advice on what to do next as their doing the usual threats by the 26th of this month etc!!!

 

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/tuvelpit69/tn.jpg

 

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae289/tuvelpit69/dn.jpg

 

Thanks in advance for your help chaps!!!

 

I received the exact same documents (minus your information obviously!). This is what I sent after advice from Diddy Dicky, Pinky and Babybear:

Dear Sir

 

RE: Credit Card Number xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx - Account in Dispute

 

I refer to your letter of the xxx xxxxx 2010.

Your letter is a clear intention not to perform under the agreement as you have asked for full repayment of all sums outstanding. This is an unlawful repudiation on your part. I therefore accept your repudiation and am now relieved of any obligations that existed under the agreement. For clarification I refer you to Sections 87 and 88 of the CCA 1974.

 

Kindly advise me of the amount of arrears that were genuinely outstanding at the time of your unlawful termination, against which I may have a counterclaim for damages.

 

I trust that this is satisfactory but if you require anything further please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Broooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooce

 

 

This is a letter I fettled myself so it may not be perfect!

[bilious]

And how did they take that little piece of information? Not well i gather? Have phoned them and offered reduced payments etc which they basically said no to bless em!!! CCCs have offered to help with settlement but no way all 4 card companies are going to let that go for 10yrs till it's paid? Or am i better off letting it go to court and still pay over 10yrs?

[babybear39]

Basically, you pay what YOU can afford. Simples :S

[brooooooooooce]

And how did they take that little piece of information? Not well i gather? Have phoned them and offered reduced payments etc which they basically said no to bless em!!! CCCs have offered to help with settlement but no way all 4 card companies are going to let that go for 10yrs till it's paid? Or am i better off letting it go to court and still pay over 10yrs?

 

No idea how they've taken it - only sent it last week. Sent same letter to Co-op a few months back and a copy to Fredericksons (who the Co-op sold the debt to) a the start of February- All quiet on the western front at the moment but who the hell knows!

[bilious]

Wish hsbc and mbna would understand that principal! but seriously which way should i go, i do value the opinions of the people on here! Dmp with cccs or try and get hsbc's written off? etc etc i know ultimately it's up to me but it's nice to have some people in my corner for a change..

[brooooooooooce]

Wish hsbc and mbna would understand that principal! but seriously which way should i go, i do value the opinions of the people on here! Dmp with cccs or try and get hsbc's written off? etc etc i know ultimately it's up to me but it's nice to have some people in my corner for a change..

 

If folks on here are right, HSBC does seem to have made a balls of it. S.87 / 88 of the CCA does say you must be given 14 days after service - that must make yours and my DN defective. Diddy dick gave an excellent explanation as to why them then asking for the full balance is an unlawful repudiation. Basically he points out that the principle benefit you enjoy on a CC is the the credit, the ability to pay them back over a period of time. So by asking for all there cash back they've taken away the principle benefit you enjoy from your agreement / contract. They've repudiated there part of the agreement.

 

I've been trying to agree F & F's with HSBC & MBNA but they aren't biting at 15%. I just hope that more cock ups they make the more ammo it will give me to force their hand. Some would say don't pay HSBC a penny until they accept that all you owe is the arrears as at the date of the DN. It each to their own but you are in a stronger position now then before you got the DN and Final Demand.

 

A dmp with CCCS could be the way but remember CCCS are paid a commission of 11% by your creditors and will not be interested in anything to do with enforceability or dodgy DN's - they will only be concerned with your income and expenditure and ability to pay. It all depends on how cut out for all this stuff you are - the constant toing and froing is not for everyone.

[babybear39]

You seem to be at a stalemate situation so now you play your hand of the defective DN as long as you have IN WRITING that the account has been terminated!

[bilious]

Haven't got it in writing as yet that they are terminating the account, just the final demand for the entire amount plus charges, which people think is the same thing.. will continue to pay my paltry 50 pounds a month to them whilst this is going on or should i drop the amount! No wonder cccs were very keen to arrange this then, didn't realise they were getting paid by them figures really.... So should i send of that little letter you posted as is, and then take it from there? As they've treated me like cr@p i may as well try and throw a spanner in the works? Do i phone them or not? Oh and i'd better not sign it? or use altered signature?

[babybear39]

Best get a legal opinion on whether what you have is enough to terminate the account.

[bilious]

Hopefully they are terminating the account by doing what they are doing, but should i fire off broooooce's letter to put the account into dispute? and still pay off money towards the said debt or not? Thanks for your help!!!

[babybear39]

You could write to them I spose accepting their terminatiopn of your account which if they put yes in writing they shoot themselves in the foot

[bilious]

May be worth a go just to see how they like it, not that they will lose any sleep over it unlike i have!!!! So is broooce's letter okay to send with my details obviously!!! And i keep reading not to sign it? i'll just print my name?

[bilious]

Hi Brooooce! Just a quick note please will use your template letter! Do i address it to the wonderful miss packwood? and send it to the address on the letter? And did you send it recorded or special delivery? Will post it tomorrow and hopefully put spanner in their works!!! thanks in advance

[brooooooooooce]

Hi Brooooce! Just a quick note please will use your template letter! Do i address it to the wonderful miss packwood? and send it to the address on the letter? And did you send it recorded or special delivery? Will post it tomorrow and hopefully put spanner in their works!!! thanks in advance

 

I confess I sent mine my normal post with proof of posting. I'm pretty damned sure that those feckwits will ignore it and argue the toss. But at least I have a proven paper trail should they attempt to issue a new DN.

 

Have you CCA'd and SAR'd them? If not you really should. My HSBC agreement (that's a laugh!) did not contain the PT's so I beleive it's unenforceable, which is also the opinion of our solicitor who wants to act for us on no win no fee. I'll keep posting up my progress (or lack of it!) so that you know what I'm up to. I haven't paid them a penny for over 6 months.

[bilious]

So send the letter! then request my cca or sar? cos the deadline is 26th april before the next set of threats!!! Ans should i then stop payments to them, or just pay a token amount? Lol how many phone calls and letters are you getting every week?

[brooooooooooce]

So send the letter! then request my cca or sar? cos the deadline is 26th april before the next set of threats!!!

 

Yep. But do them as 3 separate letters. I'm sure you'll get some other nonsense off them on the 26th - just hope its a formal termination notice, to add to your collection and paper trail.

[brooooooooooce]

So send the letter! then request my cca or sar? cos the deadline is 26th april before the next set of threats!!! Ans should i then stop payments to them, or just pay a token amount? Lol how many phone calls and letters are you getting every week?

 

Just seen a post on Invalid Default Notices - have you CCA'd and SAR'd MBNA as well? I'm just about to send another letter to some numpty claiming to be Vice President of MBNA Europe - been waiting almost 300 days for a reply to my s.78 request - the statute says 12 days! On one of my cards they confirmed they had no agreement and blamed my old building society.

[bilious]

No not as yet with mbna! they started off really bad then settled down once they knew my situation but i don't expect it to last but will send them a cca and sar letter whilst i'm about it!!! With hsbc should i wait till the 26th? or send em beforehand? And who and where do i send em too? Please... Your being a great help! As i've said i don't mind paying it all off it's the way they ignore and threaten you!! So may as well play em at their own game, worst case i still end up paying only what i can afford... best case i get nearly 20k wiped off!!! What was the post about with the invalid dn notice?

[brooooooooooce]

No not as yet with mbna! they started off really bad then settled down once they knew my situation but i don't expect it to last but will send them a cca and sar letter whilst i'm about it!!! With hsbc should i wait till the 26th? or send em beforehand? And who and where do i send em too? Please... Your being a great help! As i've said i don't mind paying it all off it's the way they ignore and threaten you!! So may as well play em at their own game, worst case i still end up paying only what i can afford... best case i get nearly 20k wiped off!!! What was the post about with the invalid dn notice?

 

Send everything to HSBC, 365 Chartwell Square, Southend-on-Sea, Essex, SS99 2UU.

 

For the CCA - FAO Patricia Govier, Customer Resolutions Manager

For the SAR - Data Subject Access Requests

 

I'd send the letters now - the sooner you do the sooner they'll reply.

 

Regrettably my morals have moved on somewhat since I started all this last year. I'm only going to pay what I'm legally obliged to and then only what I can afford - I'm not going to be bullied by these legalised crooks!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/196312-invalid-default-notices-108.html#post2889474

 

His comments about MBNA are interesting. I also read a thread last night about another MBNA case

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna-successes/210580-mbna-write-off-10-a.html

 

Interesting reading!

[babybear39]

Have you had the 'we are an American bank so UK law doesn't apply to us' yet?

[brooooooooooce]

Have you had the 'we are an American bank so UK law doesn't apply to us' yet?

 

Not yet! Can't wait for that one!

 

MBNA are being quite nice - agreed hardship, frozen interest and charges, requesting token £1 per month (which I won't be paying). A bit confused about why they are being nice - I wrote advising them that I am a certified fruit loop (or so a psychiatrict report says!) but also they admit no agreement on one account and the other is even older (late 80's). Who knows?!

[babybear39]

Ah, there may lay your answer. OFT guidlines and CSA codes of conduct state that CCL holders and CSA members must treat people with illnesses and disabilties as vulnerable So you're getting the VIP treatment to enable them to continue trading and boast that they're a member of the big boys club

[brooooooooooce]

Ah, there may lay your answer. OFT guidlines and CSA codes of conduct state that CCL holders and CSA members must treat people with illnesses and disabilties as vulnerable So you're getting the VIP treatment to enable them to continue trading and boast that they're a member of the big boys club

 

Hoorah! I did recently get Crap1 to accept at 15% f & f - which I suspect is again on the back of the fact that I'm a marble or two short.

[brooooooooooce]

No not as yet with mbna! they started off really bad then settled down once they knew my situation but i don't expect it to last but will send them a cca and sar letter whilst i'm about it!!! With hsbc should i wait till the 26th? or send em beforehand? And who and where do i send em too? Please... Your being a great help! As i've said i don't mind paying it all off it's the way they ignore and threaten you!! So may as well play em at their own game, worst case i still end up paying only what i can afford... best case i get nearly 20k wiped off!!! What was the post about with the invalid dn notice?

 

A new letter hath arrived from HSBC (which I guess is what you'll be getting on the 26th). Blah d blah '..as I've not responded to their FINAL DEMAND letter my account is now due for placement with a specialist DCA.' Yippee! Contact us to avoid this etc etc. No timescale before instruction of DCA. Usual crap. Bring it on!