Help Bailliff has taken my car 6th March 2010

[CoreyR]

Hi All,

Very briefly, my car was towed away, and the details are in the post below....the saga continues and I thought I would update you all and get some more much appreciated advised

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/250619-help-bailliff-has-taken.html

 

I duly submitted my Out of Time late Statutory Declarations on the basis that I did not receive any notices because I had moved address.

 

This was sent to the Traffic Enforcement Centre (TEC) on 15/3/2010 and I received a response yesterday stating the court dealt with my application without a hearing and that my application for leave to file the out of time is REFUSED with no information as to why! have emailed them back for details which I have as yet not had any respons

 

 

I have email the bailiff company a number of times for a breakdown of costs and to complain about no paperwork ever being provided with NO response. I have also been in contact with the local authority who also ignore my request for them to deal with this matter

 

Any advise on my options, reading te TEC's letter I can pay £40 for a review by a district judge or £75 for a hearing at my local court

 

Thanks for any help....Corey

[Fair-Parking]

The TEC never gives a reason which is one aspect of proof that shows that this local authority processing centre is not the court it tries so hard to pretend that it is. No solicitors or barristers will ever be found near the TEC.

 

A real court would give you a reason as it is your right to appeal under English law, but then a real court would be the body making the decision. The TEC doesn't, it passes on your stat dec to the local authority who issued it to answer with the inevitable refusal from the body who couldn't care less about your appeal.

 

It also explains why the TEC doesn't give you a reason for the refusal - having given the stat dec to another party, the TEC doesn't know the reason as to why they refused it.

 

I couldn't make this up.

[CoreyR]

Thanks FP

 

So if its not them whats the point of paying for a hearing? I have 4 of these does anyone know if its £75 each or can all be heard?

 

So what do I if the Local Authority is ignoring me, if I have paid a load of money to the Bailiff already surely this cancels one of them, if I pay the fine to the LA will that stop the bailiff....seems so difficult as you get no or limited response...and passed all over the place

[Zamzara]

I do think the rules are being wrongly applied in this type of case:

 

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2007/uksi_20073483_en_5#pt5-l1g23

 

23.—(1) This regulation applies where—

(a) a county court makes an order under regulation 22;

(b) the person against whom it is made makes a witness statement complying with paragraph (2); and

© that statement is served on the county court which made the order, before the end of—

(i) the period of 21 days beginning with the date on which notice of the county court’s order is served on him; or

(ii) such longer period as may be allowed under paragraph (4).

If the declaration is served on the county court 'before the end of the period of 21 days beginning with the date on which notice of the county court’s order is served on him', as in the case where no paperwork is received at all, it isn't out of time. The order is automatically deemed to be revoked:

5) Where a witness statement is served under paragraph (1)©—

(a) the order of the court shall be deemed to have been revoked;

(b) the charge certificate shall be deemed to have been cancelled;

© in the case of a statement under paragraph (2)(a), the notice to owner to which the charge certificate relates shall be deemed to have been cancelled; and

(d) the district judge shall serve written notice of the effect of service of the statement on the person making it and on the enforcement authority concerned.

 

 

 

If no paperwork was ever received then the declaration clearly was before the end of that 21 days period. The ordder is already deemed revoked and any further recovery action is unlawful: no judgment is required on this. Unless I'm missing something?

[CoreyR]

Hi Zamzra

 

Thanks, I have had no paperwork served ever...the first I was aware was when my car was taken. Even after then having paid "£950" in relation to one of the notices I still have had no paperwork provided ever.

 

I understand the warrants were all over 21 days old which is why I was advised to apply for the out of time ....which they have now rejected

[notnickr]

I am in a similar situation... I did not ever recieve any paperwork/letters about my fine until it was already with the Bailiff knocking at my previous address!

 

My offence - I know now - was caught on camera a month and a half after I moved to a new address. In this time frame I hadn't re-registered my car's address to my new address. Further to my misfortune, some idiot driver crashed into my car and wrote it off (ironically a week after my offence caught on camera). After a long saga with the insurance company I decided to take back my written-off car from the scrapyard and to sell it to a friend who wanted to make use of the parts. This was done by the textbook and the name and address of the car was then transferred to my friend. In this course of events, the DVLA then only had my old home address to chase up my parking ticket, and there lies the problem. I DID NOT RECEIVE ANY NOTIFICATION/LETTERS during the whole legal process of my fine.

 

However, the first news of the fine was actually from my ex-housemate about 3 weeks ago, 7 months after the offence! He had received a hand-written notice through the door from the Bailiff threatening a visit to seize possessions - even though I don't live there any more! He'd been recieving all my letters but had not opened them as they were addressed to me. After such a shock, I immediately called the bailiff, the local authority, and finally the TEC, I filed my TE7 and TE9 Out of Time witness statements within the same morning. Sadly, friday of last week I got them back REFUSED.... to be expected I now gather. The local authority is of course going to deny anything that comes to them, and the case will either have to go on to the local court or the fine will have to be paid.

 

I have come to the conclusion that if I take this to court for a hearing, I will just be denied for failing to update my new address with the DVLA (which on its own is an offence according to the DVLA website) in time and will just have to pay the full fees anyway. This is despite the fact that I never received anything in the first place! I am taking responsibility for firstly making the traffic offence (btw, I was unloading my car full of equipment with two wheels on the pavement on a busy london road), and for not updating my DVLA details... but am sickened by the system and have to say I've lost faith in it. Everytime I see a traffic warden now I am enraged, these people work for a really flawed system! They shouldn't allow for things like this to occur, it must happen to people all the time. The post system is not capable of delivering the service necessary. If anything is to be sent by post, it should be recorded delivery so that the offender GETS THE CHANCE TO KNOW ABOUT THE OFFENCE! Secondly, I really disaprove of the fact that once the case is given to the bailiffs, the TEC lose control over the fees payable completely, and its the luck of the draw whether you get a respectable Bailiff to answer to whos not going to completely rip you off!

 

I am now in the process of finding out who I have to pay to stop all this. I don't even know anymore if its the Bailiff, the local authority or the TEC... I don't know... I am just fed up of the situation and would rather it would go away...

[tomtubby]

I am in a similar situation... I did not ever recieve any paperwork/letters about my fine until it was already with the Bailiff knocking at my previous address!

 

My offence - I know now - was caught on camera a month and a half after I moved to a new address. In this time frame I hadn't re-registered my car's address to my new address. Further to my misfortune, some idiot driver crashed into my car and wrote it off (ironically a week after my offence caught on camera). After a long saga with the insurance company I decided to take back my written-off car from the scrapyard and to sell it to a friend who wanted to make use of the parts. This was done by the textbook and the name and address of the car was then transferred to my friend. In this course of events, the DVLA then only had my old home address to chase up my parking ticket, and there lies the problem. I DID NOT RECEIVE ANY NOTIFICATION/LETTERS during the whole legal process of my fine.

 

However, the first news of the fine was actually from my ex-housemate about 3 weeks ago, 7 months after the offence! He had received a hand-written notice through the door from the Bailiff threatening a visit to seize possessions - even though I don't live there any more! He'd been recieving all my letters but had not opened them as they were addressed to me. After such a shock, I immediately called the bailiff, the local authority, and finally the TEC, I filed my TE7 and TE9 Out of Time witness statements within the same morning. Sadly, friday of last week I got them back REFUSED.... to be expected I now gather. The local authority is of course going to deny anything that comes to them, and the case will either have to go on to the local court or the fine will have to be paid.

 

I have come to the conclusion that if I take this to court for a hearing, I will just be denied for failing to update my new address with the DVLA (which on its own is an offence according to the DVLA website) in time and will just have to pay the full fees anyway. This is despite the fact that I never received anything in the first place! I am taking responsibility for firstly making the traffic offence (btw, I was unloading my car full of equipment with two wheels on the pavement on a busy london road), and for not updating my DVLA details... but am sickened by the system and have to say I've lost faith in it. Everytime I see a traffic warden now I am enraged, these people work for a really flawed system! They shouldn't allow for things like this to occur, it must happen to people all the time. The post system is not capable of delivering the service necessary. If anything is to be sent by post, it should be recorded delivery so that the offender GETS THE CHANCE TO KNOW ABOUT THE OFFENCE! Secondly, I really disaprove of the fact that once the case is given to the bailiffs, the TEC lose control over the fees payable completely, and its the luck of the draw whether you get a respectable Bailiff to answer to whos not going to completely rip you off!

 

I am now in the process of finding out who I have to pay to stop all this. I don't even know anymore if its the Bailiff, the local authority or the TEC... I don't know... I am just fed up of the situation and would rather it would go away...

 

 

The debt will almost certainly still be with a bailiff who will want a FORTUNE.

 

Bailiff companies and local authorities RELY on people like you who decide NOT to appeal the rejection of their Out of Time.

 

We have assisted with so many such N244 Applications as so far I have only heard of 2 being rejected and NONE of these in relation to statutory notices going to a previouis address.

 

Take NO notice of the reference in the letter from TEC that a "COURT OFFICER" has reviewed the application. In reality, they merely "rubberstamp" the refusal from the local authority.

 

You changed you DVLA records after a month or so. This is far sooner than most cases that I see !!!

 

If you are to appeal, you would be better advised to pay the fee of £75 and on the form you should say that in making the application that you wish to rely upon Section 10.70 of the Department for Transport's Operational Guidance to Local Authorities (Parking Policy and Enforcement for the Traffic Management Act 2004) which states the following:

 

"If the name or address on the County Court Order Warrant was incorrect the name or address on the Notice to Owner and the Charge Certificate may also have been inccorect, and neither have been served on the motorist.

 

If the NtO and/or Charge Certificate were never served the Warrant of Execution should not be served and a NtO (or Charge Certificate) should be served to the name or the address establsihed by the bailiff"

 

PS: In the letter of rejection does it state how many days that you have to file and N244 and does it say whether the number of days is from the date of the order or from the date of service.?

[notnickr]

The debt will almost certainly still be with a bailiff who will want a FORTUNE.

 

Bailiff companies and local authorities RELY on people like you who decide NOT to appeal the rejection of their Out of Time.

 

We have assisted with so many such N244 Applications as so far I have only heard of 2 being rejected and NONE of these in relation to statutory notices going to a previouis address.

 

Take NO notice of the reference in the letter from TEC that a "COURT OFFICER" has reviewed the application. In reality, they merely "rubberstamp" the refusal from the local authority.

 

You changed you DVLA records after a month or so. This is far sooner than most cases that I see !!!

 

If you are to appeal, you would be better advised to pay the fee of £75 and on the form you should say that in making the application that you wish to rely upon Section 10.70 of the Department for Transport's Operational Guidance to Local Authorities (Parking Policy and Enforcement for the Traffic Management Act 2004) which states the following:

 

"If the name or address on the County Court Order Warrant was incorrect the name or address on the Notice to Owner and the Charge Certificate may also have been inccorect, and neither have been served on the motorist.

 

If the NtO and/or Charge Certificate were never served the Warrant of Execution should not be served and a NtO (or Charge Certificate) should be served to the name or the address establsihed by the bailiff"

 

PS: In the letter of rejection does it state how many days that you have to file and N244 and does it say whether the number of days is from the date of the order or from the date of service.?

 

Thanks for reply of my post. You know what, I have now spoken to all three parties today, the local authority, the bailiff and the TEC, and as it stands, neither of them know who I should pay in this 14 days period.

 

As you asked, the REFUSAL letter says '14 days of date of service'. I don't know what the difference is, but I have been gathering that this means I have 14 days from when the letter is dated, which was 26th May. With my luck with the postal service, this bloody letter only came to my new address on the 4th July, which was already 9 days into my 14 day period, despite the first class stamp on it! So by my calendar, I would have to assume that this time period will be up by this Wednesday 9th July.

 

The plot thickened on a new level today when I spoke to the Bailiff. On the 20th May when I first found out all of this and immediately rang the bailiff... both he (on the phone) and the hand written letter posted in my old house door quoted that I owed over 600 pounds. Though upon calling today saying that I wish to pay, he (after telling me he'd call me back) told me that he couldn't do anything right now as the case is on hold, but he told me that I owed 262.79 pounds (I never mentioned to him today that this is not what he quoted before - I was relieved sort of!). I asked him for a written confirmation/breakdown of this and he told me that he couldn't do that, and that he could only 'meet up to pay him and he could show me his original warrant'. He did however say he could give me a receipt of my payment to him. This smells really fishy to me... don't know what to make of this issue!

 

Now in regard to your advice about taking my case to a court hearing. By my calendar, I have one day to decide this, I had already made my mind up about paying it, but at the moment I am having some troubles just doing that! I am just a little confused on what you had to say on the 'Parking Policy and Enforcement for the Traffic Management Act 2004'. I never received anything; no notice to owner, no charge certificate and no country court order warrant. These all must have gone to my old house address along with the further correspondance from the bailiff. It was only the bailiff's handwritten actions that triggered my ex-housemate to notify me about this mess. Are you saying that because I sold my car to a friend in November last year, (parking offence was oct 25th), that this affects my situation with the addresses registered to the DVLA in favour of my case then? Or are you saying something else and I have missed the point?

[ipvaid]

notnickr,

 

I am exactly in same situation. I moved my address and literraly forgot to change my car address as house move is so stressfull when you move cities. I changed just before my insurance was due and received 4 parking fines at new address for the waiting for 2 minutes to pick up my wife at same place everyday.

 

I paid those 4 instantly but last week I received a notice from Bailiff asking for payment, so I called up council which is responsible for that place and got info regarding all fines by giving them my car number & found that I have 9 more tickets each worth 155 pounds but they sent only 5 to bailiff's and had 4 with them only, so paid those another 4 but had to contact each Bailiff company regarding 5 of these (they sent all 5 to different Bailiff companies, which is terrible and Bailiff charge fees if you pay by debit/credit card which is another way to make money), I have paid 4 till now but last one if still stuck. When I called Bailiff they don't have any info, council doesn't have any info & I have not received any letter as well, so it is like I & Council know that I have to pay but no one know whom to pay.

 

I was just told by one of the person at council that I could have received discounted fine (as by calling bailiffs myself without waiting for them to call me, I have shown intention to pay provided I know them .... duh).

 

I asked them several question which they didn't have answered as normal process is like this :-

 

1. Fine is issued

 

2. Reminder is sent after 28 days

 

3. Another reminder or Charge certificate is sent

 

But I asked them if they check address when sending Reminder & Charge certificate as someone can be in transit period of changing address but they had no answer for this.

 

I have paid everything but have been seriously thinking of looking for a lawyer to put a claim for stress & mental harassment as if we don't know whom to pay then how can we pay or a claim can be made against us.

 

When council can claim that they never received any letters from us in good faith, then how can they claim that I received them as they never sent using registered post or actually I/my spouse never signed for them (If someone did then it is between them and council not related to me as I never authorized anyone to take my letters).

 

When we move address, we advise our council regarding move, electoral register regarding old & new address and also new council regarding same (as in my case fine was issues by new council only).

 

Also, another thing is how can fines be issues on consecutive days without delivering previous fines as main reason for fine is "Inform/Lesson for person to not commit same mistake again" but if they issue it on consecutive days or before previous one has been delivered (as my case was CCTV fines), how can they be justified for the reason of Lesson.

 

This is quite distressing for those who are serious in paying but I know how you may be feeling.

 

If anyone know any lawyers who is willing to share claim, then please do let me know the info or contact me via this forum.

 

Cheers

[yipsf]

Hi all,

 

I've gone through the same nightmare as well. I had 2 fines through the door just after I'd moved (a couple of days) then went on a long holiday then eventually changed info with the DVLA and insurance company. A YEAR later the bailiff shows up at my new address and tries to take the car.

 

Now after a nightmare year, TEC forms (yup refused first time round as they are for everyone), I submitted my N22 forms (by registered mail and they were delayed in postal strike in Feb and never arrived). Anyway, submitted again via TEC (actually really helpful) and 2 x £75, a couple of weeks later I got the court date through for both fines! 7 Sept, and we'll see what happens. But from what I've read on the forums it should be ok - after all how can I pay something I didn't know about!

 

Oh and I wrote to the bailiffs with a £10 cheque requesting a breakdown of fees - never got it but have proof that they cashed the cheque, more ammo for the court hearing! Watch this space!

[tomtubby]

Hi all,

 

I've gone through the same nightmare as well. I had 2 fines through the door just after I'd moved (a couple of days) then went on a long holiday then eventually changed info with the DVLA and insurance company. A YEAR later the bailiff shows up at my new address and tries to take the car.

 

Now after a nightmare year, TEC forms (yup refused first time round as they are for everyone), I submitted my N22 forms (by registered mail and they were delayed in postal strike in Feb and never arrived). Anyway, submitted again via TEC (actually really helpful) and 2 x £75, a couple of weeks later I got the court date through for both fines! 7 Sept, and we'll see what happens. But from what I've read on the forums it should be ok - after all how can I pay something I didn't know about!

 

Oh and I wrote to the bailiffs with a £10 cheque requesting a breakdown of fees - never got it but have proof that they cashed the cheque, more ammo for the court hearing! Watch this space!

 

 

It is advisable to write to the LOCAL AUTHORITY to request a copy of the Statement of Truth that formed the basis of the refusal of your application.

[yipsf]

It is advisable to write to the LOCAL AUTHORITY to request a copy of the Statement of Truth that formed the basis of the refusal of your application.

 

Hi Tomtubby,

 

Thank you for the advice, but exactly what is the Statement of Truth? I've requested copies of the PCN's and other correspondence sent to my previous address and they refused. What exactly do I write to them about? I've never heard of this before.

 

Many thanks,

[tomtubby]

When you made the Out of Time Application, a copy is sent to the LOCAL AUTHORITY. They will consider your application and if they REJECT it they must provide a reason for this in a Statement of Truth and this in turn is sent to the TEC.

 

Under the Data Protection act you have a right to see this information.

[paulb67]

I claimed JSA for about 6 weeks 4 years ago.

A few months ago after leaving full time education I began claiming JSA again, and am currently doing so.

I recently received a letter from DWP titled “Invitation to office interview” asking me to attend my local Jobcentre Plus office for an interview with a Customer Compliance Officer. This was because they had discovered that in the year 4 years ago that i had claimed JSA an investment account of mine must have had over £6000 invested in it, at some point, which it did. I showed them my investment account statements to prove that i did not have more than £6000 invested during the time i was claiming JSA. They gave me and i signed a document stating that i have never had more than £6000 invested for the periods I have claimed JSA. I had no problem with that because it is true. They now want to see my investment account statements for the few months i have currently been claiming JSA. I have only had the £400 (mentioned below) in my investment account during the time i have currently been claiming JSA. I am concerned about disclosing my account information because 15 days after I began claiming JSA i paid a couple of cheques totalling £400 into my account. This was for a couple of weeks casual work i had done before I began claiming JSA. I have no payslips or proof of earnings . Will DWP ask questions about this money i have paid in and if so will they believe me or will they want further evidence of these payments, which i do not have. Do i accept(or offer) to repay my benefit for the week i paid this money in as i cannot produce any proof of the weeks it related to prior to my claim. Will DWP accept this or commence a full investigation?

I have done nothing wrong but i am concerned i could get caught up in something serious. I hear such worrying comments and see from posts on here just how aggressive DWP can be. This is worrying me so much and making me so ill i am thinking of stopping claiming JSA. Would DWP then leave me alone or continue to pursue me for this information even if i stop claiming JSA?

I can borrow some money to live on for a while until i hopefully get a job but may not be able to do so if this continues, as it currently is, in making me really ill, i already have a heart problem. I feel desperate, can anyone please help with advice?

[dx100uk]

see

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?328317-Help-Please!!!!!!

 

thread closed

 

dx