Help Needed Defence against Natwest who've issued a claim

[babble]

Over the weekend my wife received court papers from Northampton County Court issued by Incasso LLP on behalf of Natwest.

 

The amount claimed is in respect of a loan account and two bank accounts.

 

Both bank accounts (which account for more than half of the total) include bank charges which we have been disputing although Natwest have constantly tried to ignore the claims and fob us off.

 

My wife has been paying a set amount (£50) per month against all three and recently Natwest decided arbitrarily that she could afford more; which she can't. Because they were informed that she can't afford more they have decided to take this action.

 

Can anyone offer any help and advice on how to take this forward. My wife does not dispute the loan at all but the two accounts actually owe her more than they are claiming. Additionally she has received no statements in regard to these accounts for quite a while and I believe that charges have been levied for defaults issued on these accounts; which may also be contrary to the data protection act and defamation as they contain disputed charges and interest.

 

Please help as soon as possible because I want to be able to make a start on completing the online response.

 

Regards

 

David

[BankFodder]

The first thing that you must do is to acknowledge the claim. you don't need to put defence in at the momentbut you must put in an acknowledgement which will then allow you to put in a defence up to 28 days from the date on which the claim was served on you instead of the usual 14 days had you not put in the acknowledgement.

 

The second thing is to start formally claiming back your bank charges. You know what all your bank charges are? You can claim them back to 1995. If you don't have the information you need to make a complete claim then sent off a SAR straightaway. They have 40 days to respond.

 

Meanwhile get all the information that you can on the bank charges that you know about and enter them into our spreadsheet. Print off the schedule. You will be using this as the basis of your defence and counterclaim.

 

What do you know about the loan? Was it taken out before 2007? Have you got a copy of the CCA? If not you should also send off a statutory request for the CCA. They have about 14 days to respond to this.

 

Please let me know the answers to these questions and also what is the value of the charges which you know about so far.

 

I am transferring this thread to the NatWest bank forum.

[BankFodder]

also you say that you have been disputing bank charges with NatWest . Could you give a to details about the nature of the dispute, whether it has been in writing, how recent has it been etc.

[babble]

Thanks for that, it makes a useful start for us.

 

I didn't realise that we could claim bank charges all the way back to 1995. I think we have statements from 2001 to about 2007...since we started disputing the charges. I will dig everything we have out in the morning and start entering it onto the spreadsheet. I think the charges on one account amount to over £2000 without interest added.

 

The dispute of charges has been in writing on several occasions..they even tried to deny receiving the formal demand which was sent by recorded delivery and signed for. Lets just say we've had some fun and games with them over the last few years.

 

The loan was before 2007 and no we don't have a copy of the cca (as far as I know).

[BankFodder]

Make sure that you include the interest which they have levied against you in respect of the charges. Include also any interest they have charged you for an overdraft to the extent that the over draft is comprised of charges. This means, that if you have an overdraft - authorised or unauthorised for, say £4000 and if they owe you £2000 in charges, then half of the overdraft is yours and is not a true overdraft. You want the interest that they have been charging you on that portion returned to you. Otherwise you are paying interest on your own money.

 

If your overdraft is comprised entirely of charges then it is easier as you then claim all of the interest back.

If you are unsure, then err in your favour. Let the bank produce their own figures and challenge your calculations if they want.

 

What is the value of the claim and what is the value of the charges?

 

Get a copy of the CCA as a matter of urgency.

 

You have no time to lose with any of this.

 

I suggest that you aim to be ready to file your defence 23 days from the date of service of the claim. However, call the court and see what they have on file as your date of service. It will be a formal date and not necessarliy the date upon which you received the claim.

 

If there is stuff here that you don't understand or you don't know where the tempaltes are then start finding out. Spend lots of time exploring the site so that you become independent in this.

 

You claim will br broadly that it is denied that you are indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.

 

The defendant has submitted a statutory request to the claimant for a true copy of the loan agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act s.XX (I forget) and the claimant has failed to comply.

 

The alleged debt in respect of the accountsXXXXX and XXXX are comprised either wholly of bank charges which are unfair under UTCCR 1999

 

The defendant has submitted a SAR to the claimants under the DPA and which has not been satisfied.

 

The defendant reserves the right to amend this defence or counterclaim once the defendant has complied with their statutory obligations under the DPA and also with those under the CCA.

 

Counterclaim

 

Use our claims template as the basis for your counterclaim.

 

Make sure that you have dates of statutes, section nos. etc in place

[babble]

The date of service (5 days after isssue date -9th September) was 14th September. Entered an acknowledgement of service today - 15th September, stating a defence of part of the claim.

 

We have bank statements from 2002 to September 2008, when bank accounts were closed. They're claiming £9,300 including solicitors costs, with 4k for the loan and the rest for the two accounts. A rough guess is that the value of the bank charges and interest levied on the two bank accounts is at least £5000 but probably more; will use spreadsheet to produce more accurate figure.

[BankFodder]

How do you mean "stating a defence of part of the claim."?

[texanbar]

Have you ticked the box to say your admitting part of the claim?

 

x:)x

[babble]

She ticked the box to say she intends to defend part of the claim.

[BankFodder]

I hope that she didn't give more details than that. She should have intmated that she was defending all of it.

[babble]

Sorry for the delay in replying but I've been ill for a while.

 

We've not entered anything more than that we are defending part of it. We have had some stuff back from the bank, including a copy of the credit agreement today. I'm going to scan that later just in case there are any problems with it. There was also ppi insurance on it which I think might have been missold.

 

On your earlier post you put some information...was that what we should be putting in the defence box on the online court system?

 

Thanks again for your help

[BankFodder]

You have to be careful about delays. Whatever the reason the banks won't have any compassion for illnesses and probably neither will the courts.

 

Are you still within your 28 days of service of the claim? I understand that you have acknowledged but haven't filed a defence.

 

Have you done your charges calculations? What does it all come to? Have you entered it all onto a spreadsheet.

 

You must let us now where you are on all of this if we are to help you

[paulwlton]

Sorry for the delay in replying but I've been ill for a while.

 

We've not entered anything more than that we are defending part of it. We have had some stuff back from the bank, including a copy of the credit agreement today. I'm going to scan that later just in case there are any problems with it. There was also ppi insurance on it which I think might have been missold.

 

On your earlier post you put some information...was that what we should be putting in the defence box on the online court system?

 

Thanks again for your help

 

If your accounts are held at Telford there's a possibility that your payments have been applied in a way that is beneficial to the bank....you need all relevant statements.

 

Please post the CCA.

[BankFodder]

I have just realised that you are proposing to make an online response. I don't know how much space they allow you for this.

 

You won't be able to detail everything, I expect. You certainly won't be able to supply your scedhule of charges on line.

 

Please get back to us and let us know what is going on so that we can help you.

 

I think that you may have to put in a general defence and then say that you will be supplying further doumentary support when it is transferred to your local court.

We'll work it out when you come back online.

[babble]

Hi Again,

 

We have received a copy of the credit agreement for the loan - which also includes an element of ppi. I will scan this and post it shortly.

 

In addition we have also received a letter about the same thing but for someone else regarding their loan and the fact that the bank have lost the agreement. It may not help us but I do believe this is a breach of the data protection act and it may help them too if they had it.

 

We have also received statements for just the current account held by my wife and not the joint account. We have spent this morning adding the info to the spreadsheet for this account and it works out that they owe us about 25% more than they are actually claiming.

 

In addition my wife had an agreement to pay £50 per month against both accounts and the loan. The statements show that this has been applied solely to her current account. This totals £800 so I guess there is also an element of interest on that which I would estimate to be around £100.

 

Without the joint account statements I think it is fair to estimate that they owe us around 25% more than they are claiming which is what I will put.

 

As you have rightly said it is online so I will just put the topline figures in and say the evidence is available when it is transferred in the form of a schedule.

 

The date of service is the 14th of September so we have a few days yet but I intend completing the online form tomorrow.

 

I'm now going to scan the cca and post that up.

 

Thanks again.

[BankFodder]

great, well done. Presumably you haven't added interest on that 25% either?.

 

The address error which they have made is not helpful to you. However it clear from the address to the letter should be for? If it is then I suggest that you send it to them with a note saying that it was sent to you in error that you consider that it is a breach of the data protection act. Tell them about our forum and suggest that they come onto here for help with their problems.

Don't put estimates on your pleadings. Especially as from what you say you already have sufficient account information to show that they owe you more then you owe them.

 

This means that you will put in a defence and counterclaim. Your defence will simply be that their claim for the alleged debt is denied. If there are any monies which are apparently owed then they are comprised entirely of bank charges which have been levied against you unfairly and in breach of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations 1999.

 

You will then put in a counterclaim in which you will list all of your charges -- not just the 25% on top. Use our particulars of claim template as the model for you're counterclaim and amend it appropriately.

 

Secondly you should add a claim for their breach of the data protection act as they have not supplied you with all the data that you are entitled to receive.

 

So you're counterclaim will begin:

 

Counterclaim

 

The defendants counterclaim is for,

 

A) the return of unfair bank charges plus associated interest

B) breach of the data protection act 1998

 

Outline your bank charges claim as per our template

 

Express your data protection claim:

 

On such and such a date the defendant supplied a subject access request under the data protection act 1998 to the claimant

 

The claimant has failed to comply with their statutory obligations under the data protection act in that they have not made a full disclosure of the defendants personal data.

 

Then when you get to the part of what you claim, in respect of the DPA breach, you asked for an order from the court that the claimant complies with the subject access request dated such and such a date within 14 days. You should also put in brackets that you reserve the right to amend your defence and counterclaim once the claimant has complied with their disclosure obligations under the data protection act

[babble]

Sorry I wasn't very clear - on the sole account the amount they are claiming is approximately £1300 and after entering everything into the advanced spreadsheet the figure shown as being owed to my wife is approximately £1600 which is roughly 25%.

 

I think I have a copy of the statements for the joint account but as you will see from one of the letters that I am going to post, they tell my wife to use them - completely ignoring the fact that a SAR has been requested, with an initial response letter sent to her saying they will comply. Today is 21 days since the SAR was sent by recorded delivery.

 

Attached are the loan agreement scans.

[babble]

Looks like I need to work out how to get the scans on so that they can be read!

[BankFodder]

Send them back a stiff letter and remind them of their obligations under the DPA. tell them that the clock is ticking - unless of course you already have the info you need in which case let it go.

 

I'm getting a bit confused. the claim is agianst your wife for her two accounts. Where does the joint account come in?

 

If the amount they are claiming is covered by the charges you have discovered then just deal with that for the mo and handle the rest later when it is transferred and you have had time to consider the loan agreements.

In your defence, you will have to make a reference to the loan account so say:

In respect of the claim relating to ac noXXXXXX, it is not admitted that the defendant is indebted as alleged or at all.

 

I think that you shoujld scan the claim form. remove the identifiers.

Yes you had better hurry and understand how to display the documents

[babble]

Here are links to the pages of the cca for the loan agreement:

[BankFodder]

No links

[babble]

These are the loan agreements:

 

cca page1 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

cca page2 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

cca page3 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43434376@N08/3993272968/

 

The claim is against my wife for her sole account, the joint account and a loan.

[babble]

Here is the covering letter I mentioned that was addressed to my wife but for someone else. I have included it because they realise they can't enforce but still try to persuade him to pay!

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43434376@N08/3993273470/

[BankFodder]

OK. I'm not the person to deali with the loan agreements. I'm flagging the thread for another mod to look at. maybe one of our knowledgable users will take an interest too.

 

I'd like to see a scan of the claim

 

I take it the loan is in your wife's name.

[mkb]

PM'd you re flicker!