Ongoing Debts older than 6 years

[marcander]

Hi, I have 3 debts with informal payment arrangements. All originally defaulted in 2001 when I fell on hard times. These are, a credit card debt £6000 where the card was taken out in 1998, and overdraft (£700) repayment arrangement and an unsecured loan £15,000 balance now £12,000.

 

I originally started informal repayments in 2001 of between £1.00 and £5.00 per month. I am currently paying £25.00 £30.00 and £80.00 per month on the above accounts.

 

I have been monitoring my credit files for the last 18 months and there is no mention of any of the above accounts. I assume that the lenders would have posted defaults in or around 2001/2002 and that these would have 'dropped' off my credit files.

 

My question is, for anyone who might know, am I just lucky that all 3 creditors are not posting information about the accounts with the credit reference agencies? Or, is there a reason, maybe relating to the fact that the debts are all older than 6 years and I have been paying the temporary arrangements on time each month, that they are not posting to the CRA?

 

The reason I ask is that I have an arrangement with one original lender to pay £80.00 per month until April when it will be reviewed. In November and December the new lender told me I could only pay on the last day of each month. Then in January I received a letter from Moorcr@ft telling me I need to contact them to pay the full amount etc to avoid court action. I have since found other forum members have had the same letter from Moorcr@ft. As I still have an informal arrangement with the original lender, can the DCA now review that arrangement even though I have a letter confirming my current arrangement?

 

I have also just sent a CCA request to the DCA and received a standard letter acknowledging their receipt of my request and they say they temorarily halted any action etc, and that they have passed it on to their client. I am concerned now that I should be paying my temporary arrangement (£80) by the end of the month, or should I wait to see whether I get the CCA? My concern is that I dont want my credit file degrading if I am classed as not making this months payment.

 

Not really sure what to do.

 

Would appreciate any help.

 

Also, this may be of help to some, I also had 2 b/card/M/card debts that were written off in 2001. There was no communication between us until 2008 when I first checked my credit files. B/card had posted Arrears notes on both agencies for every month since 2001. These had kept my rating very low. Through the CRAs I contacted B/card and complained that they were statute barred. They agreed, apologised and removed any reference to the card debts going as far back as I could see.

 

It's really important to get your up to date credit files. I have to say also that both Experian and Equifax were very helpful. There is another company (checkmyfil e) that advertises that you can access all 3 credit files, including Call Credit, for a low fee of around £9.99 per month. Don't bother. The files they access are not complete and bare no resemblance to the actual files. They give you a credit score assessment based on the information they have, and it is incomplete.

 

Anyways, any comments on the above very welcome, and thanks to all those offering their help and expertise.

 

kindest regards

 

M

[marcander]

Forget to mention, if it makes any difference, the unsecured loan was taken out in 2000, with no PPI.

 

M

[kevlo]

please forgive me as i have no "expert" knowledge. but the idea behind the CCA letter is that the debt is unenforceable until they provide you with a signed cca so i believe that you dont need to worry about paying the £80 this month.

 

hope this helps but iwould definately wait for someone more in the know than me to clarify

[craigers]

defaults are removed after 6 years no buts. as they defaulted in 2001/2 then the accounts have to be removed from the crf in 2007/8, even if you are still paying them off. otherwise the default would be on your crf for 6 years after you finish paying off the account.

[craigers]

kevlo hasn't quite got it right. its never a good idea to withhold payments until the account is officially in dispute. send your creditors the cca letter (with a £1 postal order for each agreement) by recorded delivery. from the day after they receive the letter, they have 14 days (the 12+2 rule) to provide a cca. if after that time has expired they don't provide a cca, then send the account in dispute letter, again by recorded delivery. then i would say it is "safe" to withhold payment.

 

for what its worth, the cca request is generally a waste of time as the creditor can send an unsigned reconstituted agreement which invariably does not prove if there is an enforceable agreement. it does however give you that bit of breathing space if they don't send the cca. you are generally better sending a SAR asking for everything regarding the account, under which they must provide a copy of the signed executed agreement. i would specifically list the important docs you require, ie copy of signed executed agreement and a copy of application form. you may want to ask for statements/list of transactions, copy of default notices (inc how sent and by what means), termination notices, ppi related docs, notice of assignment, etc etc.

[marcander]

Hi,

 

Many thanks for your replies,

 

I am pleased to learn that the DCAs cannot post markers etc on my credit files because we are now well more than 6 years down the line from the original default dates. Just out of interest what would be the position if they asked me to increase my payments (which they will) in April and I say that I cannot increase my payments and I can show this with an income/expend account. I don't think they would take me to court as I have been paying every month since defaults and generally increasing payments whenever I can over the last 8 years or so. My absolute goal is to protect my credit files which funnily enough are now very good.

 

Am I right in thinking that these companies, DCAs, or original lenders definitely cannot post any information about these accounts on to the CRAs unless it is a CCJ or something as we are 8 years from the default.

 

Thanks again to all for the advice.

 

M

[marcander]

I have posted this question on another thread and received this reply from the Consumer Education Manager from Experian.

 

"Good morning,

 

You are right - defaults can only be registered with the credit reference agencies for six years, regardless of whether and how the debt is subsequently repaid. Simply as that. The defaults definitely can't be re-registered either.

 

You might be a little worried that your continuing regular repayments aren't helping your credit rating now, but as these payments are servicing past 'bad debt' it's much better for you that this information doesn't appear on your report.

 

As long as you have one or two other credit products open and are repaying them on time, your credit rating should be ok.

 

Your repayments will have been reflected on your credit report during the six years the default was registered, but once the six-year period ended the default and any information relating to it will have dropped off your record.

 

Don't forget though that if you approach any of the same lenders for credit in the future, their own internal records probably go back further than six years!"

 

Hope this might help others,

 

regards

[craigers]

i'm no expert on ccj etc, but i think you have it sussed. a ccj could be entered but thats all. no other info relating to that account can be entered.

 

i doubt a dca will actually take you to court if you are paying all you can afford. they'll threaten you, but i doubt they would carry the threats through. doubt a court would rule against you if they did start a court action. which dca is it?

 

depending on your finances, i'd send off your requests recorded delivery- s77 for the loan, s78 for the card. wouldn't bother with a request for the overdraft. if they don't produce cca within the 12+2 days put the account in dispute.

 

send off your sar requests asap.

 

very surprised that experian have been so nice and pleasant in their response!!

[Allwood]

I would suggest that as soon as you are unable to pay on any account, I would get a £2 credit report, this would give you an idea when the default was put on it, keep all reports until the 6 year limit has expired. From my experience CRA's will try and keep defaults on people file for as long as possible way over the 6 year limit.

[marcander]

Thanks Graigers and Allwood for your comments.

 

I accept that I will be paying for some time but my main concern was that my credit score remains as good as it appears to be now.

 

However, with the big loan it was originally Alli&leics and I was paying through Glob@l debt management which I believe is their in-house collections dept. I have to say that all along they have been quite fair with me. However in November last year when I rang to pay I was put through to S@nt@nder and they said they could not accept my payment as they would only accept payment on the last working day of each month. It's a little precarious to have only one day a month to remember to pay (they would never accept d/debits). Then in early February I received a letter from Moorcr@ft saying they were acting for their client (Sant@nder) and that they wanted full settlement but that either way I should contact their office basically within 4 working days.

 

It annoyed me because I still have an informal temporary arrangement originally with All@leics until April this year. I have a letter from A and L confirming this, yet Moorcr@ft made no mention of this just their standard frightener letter (mentioned court action etc). I would assume that any arrangement I have with the original debtor should be honoured by Moorcr@ft as it is being honoured by me.

Anyways, I am confident of my position based on what I have learned on this forum and others from the likes of Craigers etc, for which I am grateful.

 

Anyways I sent a CCA request with the £1 to Moorcr@ft and received the acknowledgment of receipt letter. They said they would cease collection activity until either the document is supplied or I am advised accordingly. They also requested details of any dispute and what evidence I might be supplying to a court or governing body so obviously this CCA request thing does seem to stop them in their tracks.

 

It is now 12 working days since my CCA request was received by Moorcr'ft. They were passing it back to their client so I know that they were acting only as agents and had not bought the debt. We should see what's happening within a few more days and I will keep the post updated.

 

I was a little concerned at first that any CCA request or SAR might "remind" them to start updating my credit files but I am confident that it wont now happen.

 

In summary for anyone just starting out to becoming debt free,

 

Defaults must be removed from your credit file after 6 years whether you have paid them off or not.

 

They must be removed even if, like me, you are still paying them off after 6 years from date of default.

 

Removed defaults cannot be re-instated by anyone, original lender, DCA etc.

 

All references and any other information relating to a defaulted debt must also be removed after 6 years from date of default.

 

Get hold of your credit files and monitor them if you can often.

 

I recently upgraded my "step" account to a normal current account with my bank and they "searched" me twice. It doesnt make a huge difference now but I contacted the bank and they removed one search.

 

The problem with searches is that if a search is not followed by the opening of a new account or loan/credit card etc then it suggests to future enquirers that credit was refused.

 

So, thanks again to all for the advice and to any newcomers I would say first of all, don't panic. Educate yourself from forums such as these. Learn all you can and then not only can you engage these companies on level terms, sometimes even better terms, but you will sleep at night.

 

Thanks again to you all,

 

will keep you updated,

 

Will probably send a SAR next,

Anyways

 

kindest regards

 

M

[247orbital]

Have you considered contacting the creditor and seeing if you can make an arrangement of a settlement offer, you have nothing to lose as they can't register or have any negative impact on your credit file. You may find you can finish this once and for all.

[marcander]

Just a quick update,

 

After sending a CCA request to moorcraft which they forwarded to Sant@nder the new owners of A@ndLiecs it is now 8 weeks since they received and acknowledged the request saying they would not pursue collection while account in dispute. I have received no other documents, no CCA

 

We shall see what we shall see........

 

regards

 

M

[marcander]

Just an update that may be of interest.

 

It is now 12 months since I CCA'd moorcrop who were handling the Santandas loan debt. Nothing has been received except 97 phone calls (unanswered) and 16 letters from 6 different dca's. The account is in dispute and I will not pay until they comply with my CCA request.

 

On another debt, an Egg card debt for around £4700 that seems to have grown to around £6000 even though I have been paying informally since 2001, I have CCA'd moorcrp who are handling it for Egh. I hve just received a letter from Moorcrop saying their client cannot supply CCA at this time. They have also failed to supply any statement of account , ( i have received no statements since 2001). They quote Mcguffick v RBS so they are basically telling me the account/debt is unenforcable but that they can still default me, send demands and post to credit reference agencies.

 

For anyone who is in the same boat, they defaulted me in 2001/2 so they cannot default me again. The original default was issued in 2001/2 so as it is over 6 years old all reference to that account and debt must be removed from my files (which it has been) and so the only thing I have to suffer is a few letters and phone calls requesting payment. I suspect that I have a good claim for unfair penalties and interest that have been added, hence no statement of account. So, it's probably a fair stand-off. They cannot take me to court, I am witholding payment but will not pursue a claim for unfair charges.

 

I also have an overdraft that I have been paying off for the last 9 years through an informal agreement with Fenton Cooper and that finishes in two months and I have to say that Fenton Cooper have been very fair with me and not pushed me into paying more than I could afford unlike Moorcrad who have threatened me with every legal and illegal trick.

 

For me at least, education has been the key and this forum and it's members, expert and newbies alike, have played the biggest part in my learning curve.

 

Many thanks to all

 

M