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    • Yep let us have a good laugh eh from today’s Telegraph 🤣😂🤣 the rest must try harder    Farage won Friday’s election debate, a poll finds Nigel Farage won Friday night’s seven-way BBC election debate, according to a poll.  A snap poll of 1,031 voters by More in Common found most thought Mr Farage won the debate, followed by Angela Rayner. Mr Farage received 25 per cent of the vote while Ms Rayner received 19 per cent. The Green Party’s Carla Denyer was the third most popular with 11 per cent, Stephen Flynn for SNP received 10 per cent and Penny Mordaunt, the leader of the House of Commons, took 7 per cent of the vote. Daisy Cooper, the deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats and Plaid Cymru’s Rhun ap Iorwerth took 5 per cent and 2  per cent respectively. The debate saw Britain’s main seven political parties clash ahead of the general election on July 4.  Mr Farage, who returned to frontline politics for Reform this week and is standing as an MP in Clacton, challenged his political rivals on immigration and net zero policies.
    • Hi CAG Team, I'm seeking your skills and help for a NtK my partner received through the post earlier this week. To give a little backstory, my partner and I, along with our young children (4 and 7), decided to go on a camping holiday about 3 hours away from us. We took a car each because we didn't have enough room in one car. We arrived at the services at very similar times as we followed each other the whole way. So, two cars. My partner has received this NtK, but I haven't. This NtK dropped through the front door on Wednesday, June 5, 2024.  We both parked in the Burger King car park, not in BP; we got out, all went for a toilet break, got some food from the BP garage and returned to our cars to eat.  After eating, we took the kids to the toilet again before leaving to complete our journey. I didn't notice any parking restriction signs and can't get back to the location due to how far away it is. I noticed another person had an issue here and reported it to you, and they managed to get the charge dropped. See below. To me, it looks like they have cameras at the complex's entrance and exit. I'm not sure if they own the land/car park by Burger King, I'm not sure if this is a legal contract or not.  I find that 30 mins limit at a Services that serves hot food to be ridiculous and unfair, especially as we had kids to feed and water.  And the fact that I didn't receive the same NtK despite us driving in and out together is just crazy. This is the location - I also uploaded a map image. Google Maps MAPS.APP.GOO.GL ★★★☆☆ · Restaurant 1 Date of the infringement 24th May 2024 2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 29th May 2024 3 Date received 5th June 2024 4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] N 5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Y - Only entering and exiting the complex/land. 6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] N 7 Who is the parking company? MET 8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] BP Blue Boys, Tonbridge TN12 7HE For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. POPLA I hope you can help me out with some guidance on how to proceed with this. Let me know if you need anything else. Thank you, Passerby0233 2024-06-08 13_17_52-Burger King - Google Maps — Mozilla Firefox.pdf NtK_29-05-2024.compressed.pdf
    • Which Court have you received the claim from ? Civil National Business Centre (Northampton) Name of the Claimant ? PRA Group (UK) Limited How many defendant's  joint or self ? Self Date of issue – 23/5/24 AOS - Tues, 11/6/24 (19 days)  Defence - Thurs, 25/6/24 (33 days) Particulars of Claim 1. The Claimant claims the sum of £7926 for an outstanding debt owed. 2. On 20/4/18 the Defendant entered into an agreement with Lloyds Bank for a Credit Card under reference [16 numbers]. 3. On 10/5/22 the Defendant defaulted on the agreement with an outstanding balance of £7296. 4. On 28/11/23 the debt of £7296 was assigned to PRA Group (UK) Limited, who itself assigned the debt to PRA Group UK Portfolios Ltd on 30/12/23. Notices of assignment were sent to the Defendant in accordance with S136 Law of Property Act 1925. The Claimant has instructed PRA Group (UK) to act on its behalf and the CLAIMANT CLAIMS 1. The sum of £7925 What is the total value of the claim? £8481 Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? I believe I sent a letter by registered mail of a change in address to abroad in 2021. Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit card When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Online Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt purchaser Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not personally - probably sent to my parents Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not personally - probably sent to my parents Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Not personally - probably sent to my parents Why did you cease payments? Unable to afford, living abroad What was the date of your last payment? Unsure (probably 2021) Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No ................... I have read through a number of similar threads, one thing i'm not sure how to proceed about is that I live abroad in the middle east and have done for several years. The claim letter was sent to my parents address and I really don't want them to be harassed about this. I am sure I sent the original creditor a registered letter with my change of address but can't find this currently. I am not in a position to pay this, and tend to come back to the UK to see family at most once a year (less since Covid),  not particular bothered about my financial score...more concerned about harassment of my parents. I have not registered on the gov gateway or anything like that.  Details below (as best as i can), and thank you for taking the time to look into it. Also redacted claim form attached: Claim form 23-5-24.pdf
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IS PCN correct?


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Help! Someone i know received a PCN by Dartford Borough Council. It was given in a pay and display car park. He received a visit from a bailiff and had to fill out a Stat Dec/Out of Time as he could not remember getting it.

A copy of the PCN to be sent to him by the council, and when he received it, he remembered that he had bought a ticket, and it had blown down when he closed the door. He intended to appeal, but had lost the ticket and had simpy forgotten all about it.

Is there any way i can avoid paying this fine? Are there any irregularities in the PCN? He did have a valid ticket on the day, but cannot prove it.

Pictures of the PCN attached. Also pic of car with PCN attached.

 

2i9l0fk.jpg

 

 

117761x.jpg

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The Council will almost certainly have pictures of the car at the time, which will show what was displayed on the windscreen.

 

See if you can get copies, by email or post. They will probably be happy to send them out. Depending on what they show, you can decide whether to appeal or pay.

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If the PCN was issued in a car park as stated its invalid as its an 'on street' contravention.

It is indeed a car park, though its administered by Dartford City Council.

Is this enough grounds for appeal? What would the wording of the appeal letter be?

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Good spot, G&M.

 

Off-street means car parks not forming part of the public highway. So, if that was the case when this PCN was incurred, it should be possible to successfully challenge it on the basis that the contravention [ie the one stated on the PCN] did not occur.

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This is a February 2009 contravention. If an NTO has not been received yet the LA are well out of time!

 

I would see the owner as being off the hook on this one whatever the contravention code.

 

EDIT - Sorry missed the point about visit from bailiff as posts stretch left to right!

********************************************

Nothing in this post constitutes "advice" which I may not, in any event, be qualified to provide.

The only interpretation permitted on this post (or any others I may have made) is that this is what I would personally consider doing in the circumstances discussed. Each and every reader of this post or any other I may have made must take responsibility for forming their own view and making their own decision.

I receive an unwieldy number of private messages. I am happy to respond to messages posted on open forum but am unable to respond to private messages, seeking advice, when the substance of that message should properly be on the open forum.

Many thanks for your assistance and understanding on this.

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Hello,

I now have some more info relating to this.

The driver HAD actually signed a witness statement on 25th of June that the driver had made representation but received no reply (he had sent off info stating he wasnt the driver). As he didnt hear anything back, he forgot about it.

When the bailiff arrived in Dec, thinking it was for a different PCN, he sent a OoT Declaration stating he had never received the PCN in order to stop proceedings thinking it was for a different PCN (unaware it was for the same PCN earlier in June- he had no way of knowing or connecting them together).

This OoT Declaration was then refused. When he challenged the LA, they informed him the OOT Dec was inconsistent with the Witness Statement he had signed in June, so it was refused on that basis. He asked for copies to be sent with actual PCN.

Facts are:

- Contravention occured in 11 Feb 09

- Witness Statement sent 25 June 09

- Nothing heard back until bailiff attends in Dec 09

What shd he do?. Shd he fill out N244? Will court believe why he signed witness statement stating something different from later OoT Dec?

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This is a bit confusing. Can you clarify a couple of things:

 

The driver HAD actually signed a witness statement on 25th of June that the driver had made representation but received no reply (he had sent off info stating he wasnt the driver). As he didnt hear anything back, he forgot about it.

 

What does that mean? It says the driver stated he wasn't the driver! Can you be precise about who did what - it's important to the case.

 

And, who did he send the witness statement to?

 

This OoT Declaration was then refused. When he challenged the LA, they informed him the OOT Dec was inconsistent with the Witness Statement he had signed in June, so it was refused on that basis.

 

Shd he fill out N244? Will court believe why he signed witness statement stating something different from later OoT Dec?

 

N244 is a realistic option. His grounds for filing out of time were stated as something like "no knowledge of the PCN" but this has been refuted - however as a result of the info which he received after the event, he now realises it is in fact Out of Time because he made an in time stat dec and did not receive a response. It's certainly arguable on that basis, but not cut and dried, because of the details on the stat dec. He made the error when he filled it out. It's a gamble, but probably worth it.

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What does that mean? It says the driver stated he wasn't the driver! Can you be precise about who did what - it's important to the case.

Apologies for the confusion. I meant to say "registered keeper". He is the registered keeper of the vehicle and the "usual" driver. On this occasion though, he DID not drive the vehicle. He sent a letter to Parking Services at Dartford Council stating he was not the driver, and furnished them with the name /address of the driver, but never received a reply.

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Apologies for the confusion. I meant to say "registered keeper". He is the registered keeper of the vehicle and the "usual" driver. On this occasion though, he DID not drive the vehicle. He sent a letter to Parking Services at Dartford Council stating he was not the driver, and furnished them with the name /address of the driver, but never received a reply.

 

Who was driving is not relevant for PCNs however they should still have accepted it as an appeal and given you a rejection notice.

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The point is that he filled out the OoT in good faith, as he had no way of knowing the bailiff visit was related to the PCN he received in Feb.Also, he had received no reply to his letter in Feb, and after he fillled the Witness Statement in June informing the Council of this, he received no reply either.

The bailiff document did have the PCN number on it, but unless it had been memorised in Feb, there would be no way of knowing its the same.

 

Is the wrong contravention code still a valid defence in this case, or as things have progressed to this stage, is N244 is the best option?

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Stat decs are official documents and should not be taken lightly its like swearing on oath in Court, if you were not sure you should have checked the information before 'swearing' something was the truth. If you swore you never reveiced a PCN and then swore you had appealed against it and not got a reply its not surprising it was rejected.

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The point is that he filled out the OoT in good faith, as he had no way of knowing the bailiff visit was related to the PCN he received in Feb.

 

Is answered by...

 

The bailiff document did have the PCN number on it, but unless it had been memorised in Feb, there would be no way of knowing its the same.

 

As a resonsible adult, a car owner should take responsibility for keeping records and checking such things. To say there's no way of knowing will not stand up as an argument.

 

Is the wrong contravention code still a valid defence in this case, or as things have progressed to this stage, is N244 is the best option?

 

It's irrelevant at this stage. N244 is the only way forward.

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Apologies for the confusion. I meant to say "registered keeper". He is the registered keeper of the vehicle and the "usual" driver. On this occasion though, he DID not drive the vehicle. He sent a letter to Parking Services at Dartford Council stating he was not the driver, and furnished them with the name /address of the driver, but never received a reply.

 

Understood. So he was being held liable and his argument was that he was not driving. As already said above, this is of no relevance and would not have led to cancellation.

 

So the RK submitted the witness statement. This is good - no confusion as to who's doing what.

 

I think N244 is the best bet from here. If it succeeds, than the validity of the PCN can be addressed - but first things first.

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But if he was sure then it was not perjurous, just a mistake. Perjury has to be done knowingly as I am sure you know. He is now correcting that mistake.

 

This is correct. With all due respect G&M, we need advice, not moral flagellation. The Stat Dec states that "Proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against you,if you make, or cause to be made a false statement in an application verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Well, the post clearly show that the OoT Stat Dec was made in an honest belief that the PCN had never been received before. How is one supposed to remember a PCN number received in Feb, than resurfacing on a bailiffs notice almost 12mths later, hand written written inconspicuously in small font in a corner?

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This is correct. With all due respect G&M, we need advice, not moral flagellation. The Stat Dec states that "Proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against you,if you make, or cause to be made a false statement in an application verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.

Well, the post clearly show that the OoT Stat Dec was made in an honest belief that the PCN had never been received before. How is one supposed to remember a PCN number received in Feb, than resurfacing on a bailiffs notice almost 12mths later, hand written written inconspicuously in small font in a corner?

 

Unless you are in the habit of getting multiple tickets its not rocket science to assume there may have been a connection. Your friend did not swear the stac dec on the spur of the moment on their front door step when confronted but went away and did it after consideration. If your friend had not appealed or paid the PCN as stated in this thread..Help! Need to challenge PCN - FightBack Forums then I would have thought a visit from the baliff would have been sufficient to jog his memory.

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Unless you are in the habit of getting multiple tickets its not rocket science to assume there may have been a connection. Your friend did not swear the stac dec on the spur of the moment on their front door step when confronted but went away and did it after consideration. If your friend had not appealed or paid the PCN as stated in this thread..Help! Need to challenge PCN - FightBack Forums then I would have thought a visit from the baliff would have been sufficient to jog his memory.

 

Given the nature of LA's to use PCN's as a license to print money, i don't think anyone would agree with you that getting 1 PCN in Feb, and a Bailiff Notice regarding a PCN in Dec constitutes a "habit"; And why would there be an automatic connection btw 2 events that happen almost a yr apart?

 

With regards to the posts on PePiPoo, i dont understand your comment. They regard the same issue, and both posted this week.Posting on different sites garners more info.

Anyway, I'm not getting into any verbal jousting with you. We need help, and its either you can offer it, or you cant.

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Given the nature of LA's to use PCN's as a license to print money, i don't think anyone would agree with you that getting 1 PCN in Feb, and a Bailiff Notice regarding a PCN in Dec constitutes a "habit"; And why would there be an automatic connection btw 2 events that happen almost a yr apart?

 

With regards to the posts on PePiPoo, i dont understand your comment. They regard the same issue, and both posted this week.Posting on different sites garners more info.

Anyway, I'm not getting into any verbal jousting with you. We need help, and its either you can offer it, or you cant.

 

I got 'caught' for not correctly validating my oyster card on the tram about 4 years ago and had to pay a penalty fare. If a baliff came knocking on my door regarding a penalty fare on the tram my first thought would be that I hadn't paid the one 4 years ago. I would not remember the day or month but I'd certainly not be that forgetfull that I would swear a statement I had never in my life received a penalty fare on the tram.

My point about peepipoo was on that thread your friend states he forgot to appeal (very forgetful your friend) yet on this thread you state he did appeal on the grounds he was not the driver, it seems he still suffers from memory loss.

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