Welcome are now officially dead and buried

[steven4064]

Heres something else - if you have PPI (or other insurance), ask yourself the question "How does the Welcome - Direct Group - Norwich Union thing work?

 

Welcome gets the cover to cover payements, NU gets the premiums. What does Direct Group get? Who pays them?

 

Answer: you do. But where does it say that on your loan agreement? Where is the commission?

 

Answer: it must be part of the loan. However, commission is only allowed if you know about it. This is almost certainly an example of hidden commision and hidden commission is unlawful.

 

As far as the insurance loan is concerned, commission is a charge for credit and cannot be part of the loan amount. This means that the laon amount is wrong, the total charge for credit is wrong and the APR is wrong. And the agreement is unenforceable.

 

Thats Direct Group but it could well be that Welcome got commission too.

 

Before you make any offer, ask them (by them I mean Welcome, DG and NU) for the underwriting sheet showing the commissions paid on the insurance.

[steven4064]

It is unlawful because Welcome act as agent and therefore have a fiduciary duty to you to find the best deal. Taking commission is a conflict of interest which is unlawful in a fiduciary relationship.

 

HAve a look at these two quite recent cases:

 

Wilson v Hurstanger and analysis

 

Imageview v Kelvin Jack and analysis

[steven4064]

latest update - welcome are in even more of a dire situation than was 1st thought (if thats possible) they are losing cash at the rate of £32million / month!! The general feeling by the shareholders, who may i add are joining together and are starting a claim against welcome is that is shouldnt be very long now until the receivers are called in.

My advice is to get your CCA equests and SARs in now -it will be messier once the receivers get involved. In SARs,make sure you ask for detailes of commissions paid and recvieved in relation to any insurances on the loan.

[steven4064]

Hi ketw001

 

Does the agreement have any insurance on it? If so, write and ask them for information on the commission paid to or by them, Direct Group or Norwich Union

[steven4064]

I think you will find Welcome agreements comply with regulations about layout and content - in other words, you are not going to get them on a technical error. However, it is my firm belief that, where inurance has been included, there are hidden commissions which are unlawful and woud make the whole agreement null and void (rather than unenforceable)

[steven4064]

Pat123, before you offer any settlement, you should understand the charges they have added. If they are for late payment or similar then they are unlawful and should be challenged. Send a subject access request asking for all information relating to you including but not limited to a full statement of account.

 

Also, as I have advised elsewhere, if there is any insurance on the agreement, specifically ask for information relating to commissions paid to or received from Direct Group and Norwich Union.

[steven4064]

How does commission paid on insurance make the agreement null and void? I applied for a sar 6 months ago and despite missold point, there was no mention of commission. I am aware that they probably held that info back but after speaking to Direct group they sent a single bit of paper just showing the usual crappy insurance details.

Commission paid makes the agreement null an dvoid precisely because they didnt tell you about it. If it had been declared and added to the charge for credit, no problem. However, paying it and not telling you is unlawful (actually almost criminal) and nullifies the agreement. It also makes the agreement not properly executed as an amount that should be in the charge for crdeit (the commissin) is actually in the loan amount.

 

Hope that helps.

[steven4064]

Send them a letter before action for the rest of the charges. If they dont take them off, then take them to court

[steven4064]

Remember - a 'true copy' does not have to actually be a copy; it does not have to have a signature or address. It only must have the T&Cs (including the prescribed terms, of course.

 

If they have sent you a copy of T&Cs, then they have complied with s77/s78.

 

That doesn't make it enforceable, of course.